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“Feminism was born out of a PR campaign to get women to smoke cigarettes” and other fun “facts” from Reddit

Typical feminists, according to Reddit

A redditor called fxexular has put together an amazing compilation of fun “facts” about feminism from assorted Redditors. It’s a bit like reading the descriptions of an elephant offered by six blind men who are also drunk misogynist assholes. Among my favorites:

feminism, at best, focuses on relatively trivial female issues instead of grotesque male issues and at worst is pure man hate.

feminism. Where the most privileged people in society can whine about their “oppression of opulence.”

Feminism is about strong males using law to further marginalize weak males.

The ruling class uses feminism as a tool to keep men, young men and boy’s down

It’s like pissing in a bucket of water – piss enough, and you’ll dilute the water to mostly piss. “Feminism” is a bucket of piss these days, from all the crazy and ignorant that attached to it over the years, especially the past decade when it became a fad.

feminism destroys men’s confidence and sense of satisfaction in being male.

every feminist is a abuser or a abuser apologist or a shield for other abusers.

Feminists don’t even think of men as human.

Most women and feminists view gay men as accessories.

these feminist nut cases have only one goal: total female supremacy at the expense of men. Fuck every last one of these haggard harpies. Fuck ’em all.

I used to hold doors, I dont anymore. I just let it slam in the face of whoever is behind me b/c I have been publicly embarrassed by many a feminist for being polite.

Feminists are like witches, but this isn’t the The Land of Oz, Dorothy. There are no “good” feminists.

Brainwashed weak feminist men are a favorite of feminists. They don’t treat them very well, but they use them to great effect.

i’m mad as hell at the way men are treated by the feminist gynecocracy

The people who dismiss /mr are like abusers; they’re looking for any excuse to piss all over something they know is logical and true because they can’t handle it emotionally.

Many feminists do hate men and want to emasculate them. While I’m thankful for the few who don’t I feel that their silence allows the groups like NOW to exploit men and women alike for their own aims.

I know it sounds good to believe that feminism was always about equality but go and read up on the first wave suffragettes. They were basically domestic terrorists in many cases.

The feminism of the 60’s also lead to the vitriol hatred of men.

I suspect that the butt-ugly women who started feminism in the 60’s were confronted for the first time with an efficient mating market (after the sexual revolution), and they couldn’t stand “losing” to the pretty girls

[Feminists’] entire shtick is to repeat misinformation and when that fails bust out the unsubstantiated personal attacks

Yeah, no irony there!

I think this one is my favorite, though:

I will never socialize with feminists after I learned the darkness of their philosophy.

Most of these quotes are from the Men’s Rights subreddit. Every quote in fxexular’s list that I went to look at in context had gotten more upvotes than downvotes. So they must be true!

EDITED TO ADD: Oops! Forgot the link. I added it above. And here is is again, just in case.

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Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
10 years ago

Is it possible that two things are being conflated: blow-jobs as a sexual act that people have engaged in for a long time vs. blow-jobs as a sexual act that people engaged in but didn’t discuss?

Societal Contract
Societal Contract
10 years ago

People, forget about online sources, go talk to your grandparents. That’s all the “evidence” you need.

Pecunium
10 years ago

Societal Contract:

I am citing people who are older than most people’s grandparents.

They talk about blowobs. There are women the book I referred to who say they look forward to their husbands coming home from trips so they can blow them.

In the 1880s.

So, by the standard you set (one person’s experience) I have done just what you asked for.

Pecunium
10 years ago

As to “brothels” The point was that the men weren’t saying, ‘wow… this thing I never heard of happened. They were talking about blowjobs as if they were normal behavior (and blowjobs were actually not that common in the brothels of the line, they take too long, compared to PIV, oral sex was something they got with their liasons in the villages where they took their “rest” out of the line, or from leave in England, but hey, don’t let those pesky things like books and letters and facts get in the way of what your granny told you).

Moewicus
Moewicus
10 years ago

Societal Contract, I don’t even know what you’re claiming at this point. Many societies have had varied attitudes towards it. I think we’ve established that by now. Right?

Pecunium
10 years ago

Also, The Kinsey Report; that was the ’50s, well in advance of the mainstreaming of porn.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
10 years ago

People, forget about online sources, go talk to your grandparents. That’s all the “evidence” you need.

Yeah… See the thing is, I love my grandmother very, very much and -while we have a great relationship- I just can’t ask her about specific and explicit sexual acts. Surprisingly, we have talked about the importance of sex in a round-about sort of a way. I used to listen to her and her sisters talk late into the night about men and husbands and marriage and some of those conversations were quite… ribald. To say the least.

It’s also not as though grandparents are likely to be entirely honest. Again, I love my grandmother; she’s a wonderful woman. But I know that her first child was born outside of wedlock, before she met my grandfather, and that his birth was the primary reason she moved out of the south. Here’s the thing though: she’s never actually told me this. We’ve talked in great detail about her entire life. She’s told me all about meeting and marrying my grandfather. She knows that I know about my uncle; one of her sisters even told me the story. But she’s never actually said this to me.

Which is all just to say, again, that what people talk/talked about and what people do/did are not necessarily the same thing.

Another example:

It is common knowledge that in our Black community here in the States Black women will not give them to the same extent that White women will.

As a blanket, generalization this is absurd. Maybe it’s true of the women in your social circle; I couldn’t say. Maybe you think it’s true of the women in your social circle because that’s what they say to you. Again, I have no way of knowing.

But I know that it isn’t true because I’m a part of the “…Black community here in the States…” and I laughed when I read this.

Moewicus
Moewicus
10 years ago

Also, I never asked my late grandmother about blowjobs in the thirties, but at one point she told me about how when she worked at a bank (as a teller, I think) the other women working there would talk about the “immoral” things they did over the weekends or somesuch, without specifying what those actions were. She concluded by asking me “Why can’t people just be moral?” I can only assume that, despite the conservative sexual mores of the time, women were still doing things that were frowned upon.

KathleenB
KathleenB
10 years ago

Have you met my grandmother? Christ, I can barely ask her the time without getting a lecture on How Horrible Young People Are Today, what with our converting to non christianity and our dating outside our race and our having kids out of wedlock and shit. Asking her about sex would either result in my being ostracized or learning way, way more about being a model in New York in the early ’40s than I ever, ever needed to know.

Magpie
10 years ago

This is one of those threads that remind me that Australia and USA are two different countries 🙂

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

Assuming that I were to ask my grandmother about blowjobs back in her day, and assuming that my grandmother were to agree with you, Societal Contract — at best that proves that from the 1930s to the 1950s, in a certain area of the U.S., blowjobs were not mainstream. Which isn’t the same as saying that it’s been mainstreamed only recently in the U.S., as you assert.

You’re probably better off arguing that in your experience, blowjobs weren’t common until the past few decades and your acquaintance with pornography. It’s much more difficult to try to claim that you can infer from your experience that in the whole of history throughout the ages, and over the many cultures that make up “the West,” everyone’s experiences have been the same as your own.

Pecunium
10 years ago

Bee: SC isn’t arguing that it has only been recently mainstreamed in the US. She is arguing that it has only be mainstreamed, anywhere in the world recently because of US manufactured porn.

cynickal
cynickal
10 years ago

Exactly my point. PORN. Now ask your grandmoms if any of that was mainstream.

Easy enough… http://drruth.com/

Hershele Ostropoler
10 years ago

Soc K:

People, forget about online sources, go talk to your grandparents. That’s all the “evidence” you need.

That may be all the evidence you need. Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing some fancy book-larnin’.

Molly Ren
10 years ago

“Exactly my point. PORN. Now ask your grandmoms if any of that was mainstream.”

I know! This whole “put penis in vagina” thing was NEVER mainstream! Ya know how I know? Because PORN!

SC, not every act shown in porn is something “rare”. The US, at least, has had trouble depicting *any* sex act *anywhere* that’s not porn, no matter how “popular” it is.

Societal Contract
Societal Contract
10 years ago

Bee, since I’ve lived in several different countries across the globe, Pecunium is correct. I’m not talking exclusively about the US nor even western, European countries.

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

Wait, so have people also only started eating pussy recently because of porn? Or is it just blowjobs? Why do you think oral sex is some new recent thing? Oh wait, because you asked your grandparents. Did they tell you to get off their lawn as well?

Magpie
10 years ago

SC is not saying it’s new, Snowy. She’s saying she has noticed attitudes and expectations of it are different over time and in different places.

Magpie
10 years ago

Societal Contract, I wonder if this is one of those cases of a non-USian accidentally pushing USian buttons. What I read you as saying seems to be different to what others read you as saying. Just don’t start talking about guns! lol 🙂

Societal Contract
Societal Contract
10 years ago

“Societal Contract, I wonder if this is one of those cases of a non-USian accidentally pushing USian buttons.”

Probably. I made a small comment in passing based on my own experiences and it turned into this.

There seems to be a need to believe that blow jobs are and have always been mainstream throughout the entire world.

Jamaican men would be in ecstacy to hear that there are regular, ordinary women out here who need to believe that.

Come gitchu island bwoy, gyal. Bingy Mon gwan wine pon dey white gyal poom-poom dem, n let she lick dey natty dread below. Yeah mon.

😉

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

“SC is not saying it’s new, Snowy.”

Yes, Magpie, she is.

“What I’m saying is that blow jobs have been mainstreamed only recently in the West via porn”

That sounds like she’s saying it’s new to me. Maybe you have a different interpretation? Involving people in the US being overly sensitive or something? Oh wait, you did that already.

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

“Come gitchu island bwoy, gyal. Bingy Mon gwan wine pon dey white gyal poom-poom dem, n let she lick dey natty dread below. Yeah mon.”

Wow Societal Contract, that was such an amazing recreation of a Jamaican accent! At first I thought you were just being a total dickhead, but then you added a winking emoticon so I knew everything was cool. Right on.

Societal Contract
Societal Contract
10 years ago

Nope, Snowy. Blow jobs were written about in the Kama Sutra which is very old, so I’m under no impression that the concept is new.

However they were written about as something that regular, ordinary “respectable” women would find objectionable and therefore the men who were hellbent on experiencing it were advised to seek out transgendered prostitutes who specialized in the skill, as well as male or transgendered barbers, who along with a clean shave, could clean them up elsewhere as well 😉 … for the right price. But not even all the prostitutes were willing or expected to engage in it.

I’m saying, as I have been saying all along, that blow jobs have been mainstreamed recently in the US due to porn to the point where they are expected and objections to them on the grounds that the woman finds them “nasty” (as do Jamaican women, ask your local Dread), that she’s seen as abnormal or repressed in some way.

I’ve even heard that something called “facials” which is particularly disgusting is currently being mainstreamed from porn.

American guys under 35 are expecting this. I say fuck them. Pun not intended.

Societal Contract
Societal Contract
10 years ago

“Wow Societal Contract, that was such an amazing recreation of a Jamaican accent!”

Except in my case its not a recreation.

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

Wait, so you’re saying you’re a Jamaican man, Societal Contract? Or do you prefer HINDU?

Magpie
10 years ago

Not overly sensitive, just that different people attach different importance to things. I took SC’s comments as a passing remark, of no more significance than, say ‘people smoke less these days’.

If you’re in the mood to bite: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/02/15/dear-usians-on-the-internet/

Societal Contract
Societal Contract
10 years ago

“Wait, so you’re saying you’re a Jamaican man, Societal Contract? Or do you prefer HINDU?”

Jamaican is a nationality, Snowy. Hindu is a religion. One can be both. Its not either/or.

And Jamaica has a pretty population of Hindus, by the way.

They also don’t give blow jobs 😉

Rutee Katreya
10 years ago

You’ve also claimed direct connection to the Indian subcontinent in the past.

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

Oh, oops, sorry! What I meant was, do you prefer to be called HINDU rather than Societal Contract? I believe you are the same person.

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

“Not overly sensitive, just that different people attach different importance to things. I took SC’s comments as a passing remark, of no more significance than, say ‘people smoke less these days’.”

Oh great. I’m so glad!

“If you’re in the mood to bite: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/02/15/dear-usians-on-the-internet/

Wow, what a great link Magpie! That’s a very interesting article. Thing is, I’m pretty sure I’ve read it before. You see, I actually read other things on the internet besides Manboobz. And it doesn’t seem to have anything to do with what we’re talking about right now. But thanks!

Magpie
10 years ago

It looks much the same from over here, Snowy.

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

Well, that’s nice, Magpie.

jumbofish
jumbofish
10 years ago

Not overly sensitive, just that different people attach different importance to things. I took SC’s comments as a passing remark, of no more significance than, say ‘people smoke less these days’.

I think the fact that its false “passing comment” is a good enough reason to call her out…Why are you so defensive about this?

Magpie
10 years ago

Yeah, I’m clearly just not getting it. I honestly took it as a casual observation, and didn’t understand the vehemence of the replies. shutting up now :]

Pecunium
10 years ago

SC is also arguing that a single text, aimed at a very select audience is normative for an entire group of co-exisiting cultures, and defined the behavioral norms of millions of people.

And mirrors those attitudes worldwide; until something changed in the early 1990s, and US themed porn took over the world.

Other works (Martial, Ovid, personal letters and diaries, wookcuts. etchings, statuary [a huge body of which can be found in Indian temples], graffitos, frescoes, etc.) don’t count. Just the Kama Sutra.

So, as this seems to be the same person who previously claimed a Ph.D in either Anthropology, or Psychology, why do you think such a thing? What supporting evidence (and we’ve already covered the whole, “my experience” thing. As a man, well over 35 I can say that women have been, enthusiastically, engaging in blowjobs; from my experience [and without any coaxing… proactively] for quite some time), have you for this claim?

Dave: SC has said she’s lived, “in lots of countries”. Apparently she’s also spoken to lots of grandparents, all of whom said blowjobs are something decent women don’t do, only prostitutes.

For which, as I said when this whole thing started, [Citation needed].

Hershele Ostropoler
10 years ago

Soc K:

Jamaican men would be in ecstacy to hear that there are regular, ordinary women out here who need to believe that [fellatio is normal].

I know, right?, US women sure are stupid and easily led, aren’t they?

Bee
Bee
10 years ago

Bee, since I’ve lived in several different countries across the globe, Pecunium is correct. I’m not talking exclusively about the US nor even western, European countries.

Wellllllll, that’s actually even weirder then.

I don’t know why you’d equate your experience with my grandma’s, since she hasn’t lived in many different countries across the globe and would only be acquainted with blowjob etiquette in one or two U.S. towns.

And I don’t know why you’d try to equate your experience with the experience of all the people in all the countries you haven’t lived in.

And I don’t know why you’d try to equate your experience with the experience of all the people who lived before you were alive.

(And I guess I don’t know why you’d say “What I’m saying is that blow jobs have been mainstreamed only recently in the West via porn to the point where now men EXPECT it” if what you were really talking about was “not the West but at every point on the globe,” but I guess that’s a separate point, and I don’t really care.)

Your experience is your experience. And if what you really meant was “In your experience,” that’s cool. But that’s just not what you said,

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
10 years ago

I’ve even heard that something called “facials” which is particularly disgusting is currently being mainstreamed from porn.

American guys under 35 are expecting this. I say fuck them.

Wow. Another baseless, inaccurate, generalization. And, yeah, I already asked my grandma.

You know I’m reminded of the time, long ago, when Twisty Faster did a post all about how no woman had ever really liked giving blowjobs and that, basically, all the women who claimed that they liked it were lying to themselves or deluded by the influence of porn. And then in classic Twisty fashion, she sat back and watched the comments thread turn into a brawl.

Now, I’m not a radical feminist but I think Twisty’s a hell of a writer. And even when disagreeing with her (which I do as often as not) I can understand the nuance of her arguments. What was funny about that comment thread though, was after hundreds of posts of women defending the sexual agency of their own oral proclivities -and hundreds of other posts declaring that there was no such thing- not a single poster brought up the most obvious and relevant counter argument:

What difference does it make what a self-identified, radical feminist, lesbian thinks about giving blowjobs? I mean, it’s interesting, sure. But once you’re starting from the argument that a particular, consensual sexual act is “nasty” what the hell else is there to say? And why should I care?

Don’t like giving blow jobs? Don’t give ’em. Don’t give them out of a sense of duty and, for the love of Pete, don’t give them as “treats”. No one should do anything sexually that they don’t genuinely enjoy or at least genuinely enjoy through the pleasure of pleasing. So don’t. Date guys who don’t like getting blowjobs and everyone’s happy.

Just, you know, keep your thinly veiled, slightly hostile judgmental attitude about those who do give fellatio out of your arguments.

Pecunium
10 years ago

Nobinayamu: Point. I wasn’t (and am not) all that worried about the actual opinions of women on blowjobs. Them as likes sharing them with me are swell. Them as don’t are swell too (though they are, IME, the smaller portion, and by far).

What I was (and am) addressing is the willful denial of good argumentation, the assertion of magical knowledge; which refutes all other evidence, and the use of a single (questionable) source to support claims which are so broad it would take hordes of researchers decades to examine, all of which needs only one example to disprove. It rises to the level of being impossible to separate, for technique, from a Meller, or an Ion or a Marc.

It is almost as virtuoso as an NWO.

Holly Pervocracy
10 years ago

I just figure as long as people have had mouths, and some people have had penises, it never did take rocket science to put two and two together here.

Societal Contract
Societal Contract
10 years ago

Soc K:

Jamaican men would be in ecstacy to hear that there are regular, ordinary women out here who need to believe that [fellatio is normal].

Hereshele:

I know, right?, US women sure are stupid and easily led, aren’t they?

felixBC
felixBC
10 years ago

Whoa. “For the women, the men are part of the tourist package, and for the men, the women are part of their earnings. They can’t help but come into conflict.” Talk about an intersection of ideas about race and sex and class…

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
10 years ago

Well, by all means let’s view the prevalence of specific, consensual, heterosexual sex acts, primarily, through the lens of sexual tourism/quasi-prostitution of a small island nation that has an unusual history when it comes to the “intersection of ideas about race and sex and class…” And then, you know, we can all ask our grandparents what kind of lube they prefer.

Makes perfect sense.

In all seriousness, though, the race class sexual tourism thing in the caribbean and in some African countries is not especially new. And it is fascinating… in a way.

Pecunium, certainly I never meant to imply that there was any worry, on your part, about women’s opinions on fellatio. I was commenting, more, on the tone of the turn in discussion. And, as Hershele pointed out, the implication that American women have been tricked somehow by porn.

Societal Contract
Societal Contract
10 years ago

“the implication that American women have been tricked somehow by porn.”

Tricked by porn? No. I’m thinking more along the lines of influenced to varying degrees, much like how, or exactly like how perhaps, we are influenced by messages and images in non-porn media, which is a HUGE field of study in Feminist Theory and Womens’ Studies.

Booking my flight to Jamaica as we speak 😉

I love me some “jerk chicken”.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
10 years ago

Interesting re-framing of your initial argument.

Whatever.

I prefer curried goat with a side of rice and pigeon peas with some coco bread. Or ackee and saltfish. But I do make a mean jerk sauce. The secret is the allspice.

Snowy
Snowy
10 years ago

“Booking my flight to Jamaica as we speak 😉

I love me some “jerk chicken”.”

Again with the winking. Do you have some kind of a nervous tick?

Hershele Ostropoler
10 years ago

“I was arrested for using a 10-letter word starting with ‘c’, and I would marry no woman who wasn’t one.”

I don’t know if this proves fellatio was mainstream in the ’60s, but the fact that Lenny Bruce expected his audience to understand the reference and everything suggests it wasn’t considered the bleeding edge of sexual perversion; the idea that a man could marry a woman who was one contradicts the idea that only prostitutes did it.

But if the claim is only that it used to be unusual and now it’s common because of the spread of porn, I don’t think that’s true, but that’s not important beyond the general badness of people going around believing things that aren’t so. That’s also a much weaker claim than “fellatio isn’t common, but a lot of women do it because they think it’s common, and false consciousness makes them think they like it,” which is how I read the initial claim.