A redditor called fxexular has put together an amazing compilation of fun “facts” about feminism from assorted Redditors. It’s a bit like reading the descriptions of an elephant offered by six blind men who are also drunk misogynist assholes. Among my favorites:
feminism, at best, focuses on relatively trivial female issues instead of grotesque male issues and at worst is pure man hate.
feminism. Where the most privileged people in society can whine about their “oppression of opulence.”
Feminism is about strong males using law to further marginalize weak males.
The ruling class uses feminism as a tool to keep men, young men and boy’s down
It’s like pissing in a bucket of water – piss enough, and you’ll dilute the water to mostly piss. “Feminism” is a bucket of piss these days, from all the crazy and ignorant that attached to it over the years, especially the past decade when it became a fad.
feminism destroys men’s confidence and sense of satisfaction in being male.
every feminist is a abuser or a abuser apologist or a shield for other abusers.
Feminists don’t even think of men as human.
Most women and feminists view gay men as accessories.
these feminist nut cases have only one goal: total female supremacy at the expense of men. Fuck every last one of these haggard harpies. Fuck ’em all.
I used to hold doors, I dont anymore. I just let it slam in the face of whoever is behind me b/c I have been publicly embarrassed by many a feminist for being polite.
Feminists are like witches, but this isn’t the The Land of Oz, Dorothy. There are no “good” feminists.
Brainwashed weak feminist men are a favorite of feminists. They don’t treat them very well, but they use them to great effect.
i’m mad as hell at the way men are treated by the feminist gynecocracy
The people who dismiss /mr are like abusers; they’re looking for any excuse to piss all over something they know is logical and true because they can’t handle it emotionally.
Many feminists do hate men and want to emasculate them. While I’m thankful for the few who don’t I feel that their silence allows the groups like NOW to exploit men and women alike for their own aims.
I know it sounds good to believe that feminism was always about equality but go and read up on the first wave suffragettes. They were basically domestic terrorists in many cases.
The feminism of the 60’s also lead to the vitriol hatred of men.
I suspect that the butt-ugly women who started feminism in the 60’s were confronted for the first time with an efficient mating market (after the sexual revolution), and they couldn’t stand “losing” to the pretty girls
[Feminists’] entire shtick is to repeat misinformation and when that fails bust out the unsubstantiated personal attacks
Yeah, no irony there!
I think this one is my favorite, though:
I will never socialize with feminists after I learned the darkness of their philosophy.
Most of these quotes are from the Men’s Rights subreddit. Every quote in fxexular’s list that I went to look at in context had gotten more upvotes than downvotes. So they must be true!
EDITED TO ADD: Oops! Forgot the link. I added it above. And here is is again, just in case.
All on board the Broken-HTML-Correcting Cock Carousel!
As for the prevalence, or not, of blowjob giving around the world, I do think the argument is taking place in something of a vacuum of hard evidence and as such arguments are is intractable. I tried searching google scholar for “oral sex attitudes international” and didn’t find much that looked relevant, and gave up, but I’m no google scholar ace. Maybe someone with more patience and access to their university’s journal databases can look it up. In the meantime, Wikipedia says it has been subject to various levels of taboo but has also been promoted in non-western cultures. And according to this Salon article, in ancient Rome stealing potatoes could see one giving fellatio as punishment:
http://www.salon.com/sex/feature/2000/05/22/oral_history/print.html
Although the interviewed author (Thierry Leguay) is wrong about non-human animals: as Holly mentioned, bonobos do it, and bats have been shown to as well.
should read maybe read:
and, as such arguments are, is intractable without reference to such evidence.
/sensemaking
I give up.
Did DKM really latch on and make an entire rant about “you mentioned blowjobs, therefore women shouldn’t learn to read and write” because my neighbor’s dog had a silly name?
That’s one hell of a shining example of the “grab a keyword and run with it” method of Internet arguing.
Horses engage in vulvular licking, so do dogs. There are graffito, and artworks of oral sex in Pompeii, and one of the most notorious books of the early printing era was an Italian collection of erotic drawings. It pretty much proves Aristotles point that there is nothing new under the sun.
Shakespeare made blowjob jokes, Bourbon France had bawdy snuffboxes, Victorians wrote novels, diaries, and letters about how they liked their sex.
All of them showed/talked about oral sex, male and female. Given the prevalence of it’s showing up in art and literature, I am going to go with the idea that it’s been enjoyed for as long as people have been engaged in lovemaking, and probably as long as they’ve been fucking.
SC, you claimed every culture, throughout all of history, except the modern west hates blowjobs. This is an actual fact claim. IF you want tob e lazy, fine. But this is one you can *demonstrate*, because we have these things called primary sources. Don’t cite ‘direct empirical evidence’ when you could be citing actual hard evidence. Prove your case, don’t assert it.
Or be lazy. I don’t care. But don’t get angry when people won’t take you seriously because you’re lazy. It pisses me off as a lazy person to see someone else unwilling to cop to that.
I’ve heard that dolphins are goddamn perverts! Also, everything this lady says: http://www.sundancechannel.com/greenporno/
Man, those animals are fucking like animals out there.
Oh, btw, a video starts immediately when you open that link… but it’s work-safe for at least a minute or so, I think. :p
” And according to this Salon article, in ancient Rome stealing potatoes could see one giving fellatio as punishment”
PUNISHMENT.
Holly Pervocrazy,
My comment related to the simple fact that there was too much attention being paid to ‘blowjobs” and not enough to the many other ways that women can bring great pleasure to the man–or men–in their lives. It had nothing to do with a name somebody gave a dog, silly or not.
My comment on women learning to read and write was one of exasperation brought about by the sheer stupidity of women chatter and girly gabble endlessly droning on here about giving silly blowjobs! Some people like ’em, and some don’t! End of story!
Societal Contract, the ancient Romans had multiple words for blowjobs– fellatio and irrumatio (although irrumatio more closely translates as “mouth-fuck”).
DKM: I try to bring joy to the people in my life, whether they’re men or women. I’m not, like, some kind of joy-to-men robot here.
And what if the dude I’m with gets the most joy from me being a smart, opinionated, argumentative woman who can challenge and educate him as well as being challenged and educated by him?
Oral sex was invented in 1990. I never saw any reference to it before that year. QED.
Ahem. I understand that many if not most women think they enjoy fellatio, and the difference between thinking you enjoy something and enjoying it is slim. Extrapolating from my own experience as a straight man, I certainly find it plausible. It’s possible that they’ve all been brainwashed by porn, but it’s unlikely that they only do it because men have convinced them it’s normal (and if many/most women do it, doesn’t that mean it is normal?)
If you can take a break from thinking about the furnishings of Toad Hall and your new horse and carriage, Meller, please enlighten us. What do you consider to be the non-blow job related joys that a properly trained, skilled, and hopefully illiterate, submissive woman can bring to a man?
People, I’m not saying oral sex is “bad” – especially not cunninglingus 😉
What I’m saying is that blow jobs have been mainstreamed only recently in the West via porn to the point where now men EXPECT it (instead of seeing it as a “treat” like they used to.)
It is common knowledge that in our Black community here in the States Black women will not give them to the same extent that White women will. In Jamaica it is considered the most nastiest of things.
In Kama Sutra it was written that it is not something a man should expect of a wife, but that he could obtain via a certain section of transgendered prostitutes and male and transgendered barbers (lol).
There are many things in porn that I could not even imagine existing but these days people talk about them on the internet as if they are “normal” and people who think those things are disgusting are somehow abnormal with sexual hang-ups.
Um, yeah, this just isn’t true. Perceptions and willingness to admit to it may be different and influenced by generational norms. But this isn’t true.
Societal Contract: What I’m saying is that blow jobs have been mainstreamed only recently in the West via porn to the point where now men EXPECT it (instead of seeing it as a “treat” like they used to.)
And we are saying you are wrong.
That was easy to clear up.
Yeah if that’s literally the only thing you claim you should still be able to find evidence that it’s expected now, if nothing else.
OK Pecunium, ask your grandmoms if blow jobs were mainstreamed in their day.
Dude, I’ve seen vintage porn from my grandmother’s time. There were not only blowjobs in it but also cunnilingus, buttfucking and a lady getting eaten out by a dog.
You also missed all the primary source ancient porn.
This shit was produced in enough numbers to be preserved without extra caution taken. What does that tell you.
“Dude, I’ve seen vintage porn from my grandmother’s time. There were not only blowjobs in it but also cunnilingus, buttfucking and a lady getting eaten out by a dog.”
Exactly my point. PORN. Now ask your grandmoms if any of that was mainstream.
Societal Contract: 1: I see you don’t accept our word for it. Why should we take yours?
2: I can’t, they are dead.
Back to (1): I do have primary source material, and some rather good secondary source material, relevant to my grandmothers’ days (they being a bit older than you suspected, the range is late victorian to early modern). It contradicts you (please note, this is not assertion, it is citation)
I commend, “When passion reigned”, and any number of “French Postcards” postcards; some in stereo.
The “postcards” move one all the way up to the early modern, and into the “stag films” of the teens and twenties, which brings us up to my other grandmother.
Taking the writings of soldiers in WW1 (English, Anzac, Canadian, US) blowjobs were 1: Common and 2 (this is the important part) not exotic. Given the somewhat sheltered (altogether) nature of some of the boys who went to France (they being young) this is rather telling of the more widespread than you are asserting nature of them.
It’s quite possible that, in your circles, they are looked down on, that does not make the attitude universal.
“Taking the writings of soldiers in WW1”
Soldiers hang in brothels.
Which corresponds with what the Kama Sutra says…. prostitutes can be expected to do it, not wives.
Societal Contract: This is really, really easy to clear up. Go, do your research, show us some sources that say oral sex was nasty and forbidden (moreso than standard piv sex). Seriously, you’ve brought up these… I hesitate to call them ‘points’, so let’s go with arguments. You get to defend them. Have fun!