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Gödwindämmerung: Women who won’t date nerds are like Pol Pot

Note to angry dudes: Women not wanting to date you is not the equivalent of this.

There needs to be a Manboobz Addendum to Godwin’s Law to cover those who compare their lack of dating success to, you know, genocide. You may recall the charming Tumblr dude who equated dateless “nice guys” with persecuted Jews in Nazi Germany.

And now we have “white and nerdy,” the blogger behind Omega Virgin Revolt taking the datelessness=genocide thing a step or two further. As you might guess from the title of his blog, WAN doesn’t exactly have women beating a path to his door. Not even golddiggers, even though he is, he says, “a widly successful owner of my own business.” Women don’t even want to use him for his money? Why is that? Because he is not a — wait for it – “alpha” man.

Yep, it’s the same old dopey logic we’ve seen so, so many times before: Women won’t date me => therefore I’m not an alpha => therefore women won’t date anyone but alphas. WAN has added one more step to this illogical logic chaim: this makes them the equivalent of genocidal monstere:

The ideology that women act on is the ideology of Pol Pot, of the Killing Fields.  Women want non-alpha men purged and intelligence is considered by women to be a lack of alphaness in a man.  This is similar to the ideology that led to the killing fields.  Many of the millions who were murdered by the Khmer Rouge in the Killing Fields were murdered for showing signs of intelligence.  That included everything from education to the possesion of wristwatches and/or glasses.  If modern geeky hobbies had existed in Cambodia in the 70s, I’m sure that would have been included along with wristwatches and glasses as evidence of intelligence, and anyone interested in geeky hobbies would have been murdered too.

He’s making a could-not-possibly-be-more-strained reference to the whole Alyssa Bereznak/Jon Finkel kerfuffle. Bereznak, as most of you probably already know, wrote a sort of snarky, sort of stupid piece for Gizmodo about her date with Finkel, a champion Magic the Gathering player, and said some mean things about him and his geeky hobby. Pol Pot engineered the deaths of roughly 2 million people, many of them urban dwellers and intellectuals forced to relocate to collective farms in the countryside. Many died of starvation; others were shot – or beaten to death, in order to save on bullets.

So, yeah, Bereznak and Pol Pot are pretty much identical.

WAN continues:

[T] ideology of what women are doing now and what Pol Pot did are very similar.  The Killing Fields needed to be opposed for both moral and practical reasons and so must what women are doing now.  Rebel at The Spearhead said that women are engaged in a “holy crusade” against men. … The Khmer Rouge was also on a “holy crusade”.  As Rebel also said what is at stake is nothing less than civilization itself and your existence and freedom just as it was with the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.

In an earlier post pretty much making the identical, er, “argument,” WAN takes aim at comedian Julie Klausner, who recently published a memoir called I Don’t Care About Your Band: What I Learned from Indie Rockers, Trust Funders, Pornographers, Faux Sensitive Hipsters, Felons and Others. In her book, and in some interviews about the book, Klausner made some unflattering comments about “beta males” and “immature” men. This sends WAN into a rage:

Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot would be proud of this cunt.  She all but calls for concentration camps for her “useless beta inferior men” who secretly run the world.  … 

Ah, classic weasel words: “All but calls for.” In other words, she doesn’t actually call for concentration camps, or even rock ‘n’ roll fantasy camps, for men in any way shape or form. Never mind. WAN continues:

Somehow these “straight angry nerds” who are “useless and inferior” took over the world when no one was looking and this cunt says “something needs to be done” about this “epidemic”.

This type of thinking is widespread among women.  …

[I]t’s no surprise that a lot of men are saying they think they would be better off with the Taliban running things.  While I’m not sure that isn’t just trading one set of problems for another … I understand what these men are thinking.  Anything has got to be better than this.

So: Nerdy men are “oppressed” by women who won’t date them. The solution to this imaginary oppression: oppress women for real.

I couldn’t make this shit up.

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hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

I am not defending what OVR or any MRA said. I am saying that feminism is a hate group.
And a lot of those who are active on the internet are bullies who seem to get off an slamming anyone who is not in their clique.

You really don’t read for comprehension, do you?

Nobinayamu beat me to it, but yeah, look at the header of the site. It’s not hate, it’s mockery. If you can’t tell the difference, that’s on you.

luke123
luke123
9 years ago

If the purpose of your empty life

Projector Shields: not actually as cool as deflector shields.

I’m not the one wasting every day of his life on a ‘mocking’ site.

Bostonian
Bostonian
9 years ago

You are doing a good job of wasting this day.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

I’m not the one wasting every day of his life on a ‘mocking’ site.

Nope. Just today.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

That you could ever think a single site represents the sum of my or anyone else’s existence on the internet alone, let alone my or anyone else’s social life and free time in general, doesn’t bode well for your social life and free time, dude. Projection or lunacy, either is possible.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Jinx, Bostonian! You owe me a Coke.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Women treated him the exact same way when he wasn’t a misogynist you all are treating him now. OVR has issued all of you a challenge to explain that one:
http://omegavirginrevolt.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/a-question-no-woman-or-mangina-will-ever-answer/

Whoever “Poster” is over in the comments section of that link just answered it pretty thoroughly. You guys just don’t like the answer, and OVR is currently fussing at Poster — I can’t imagine that OVR was any less whiny and entitled as a “non-misogynist” as he is now, and he’s currently very whiny and entitled. Unattractive!

Bostonian
Bostonian
9 years ago

Indeed I do, Captain Bathrobe! It will have to be virtual, though.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

And a lot of those who are active on the internet are bullies who seem to get off an slamming anyone who is not in their clique.

“Get off,” huh. You’re terrible at reading comprehension, you don’t know how to debate effectively, you have a miserably poor understanding of feminism, and not a single woman here would ever deign to — oh OH OH. MOCK HARDER! THAT MOCKING IS SOOO GOOOOD!

…Sorry, what were you saying?

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

I see Alex Novy has much bigger balls there than he does here, and is not actually a tone troll when he’s among his own. Not that he was unobvious about being an MRA but…

Anyway, WAN’s idiocy is self evident. I’m glad Poster took him down a peg on his own site, but it makes no difference. We don’t have to jump because he says jump. He has to substantiate his idiotic claims before they should be taken seriously by anyone. Good luck with that.

Pecunium
9 years ago

He also pulls the, “lurkers support me in e-mail” about everyday life.

Bostonian
Bostonian
9 years ago

I do not understand the “lurkers support me in email” thing. If people support an opinion, they usually feel free to write it in comments on the blog.

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

And for some reason, you’re here defending that statement by using the hypothetical gender cleansing of the nonexistant Daly-led feminist dictatorship and complaining about what Bereznak wrote.

ZOMBIE Daly-led feminist dictatorship. Which is like twenty genocides in one!!! Or not getting laid for a month. Both of which are completelt equivelent!

And everybody who claims nerdiness itself is handicap MUST be just like him or his supporter, because my friends are nerds and all are doing well.

(And please forgive my English: I olny write technical stuff on daily basis. Sorry.)

So you technical writer but can’t read for comprehension. You must write the help docs for Windows.

I am not defending what OVR or any MRA said. I am saying that feminism is a hate group.
And a lot of those who are active on the internet are bullies who seem to get off an slamming anyone who is not in their clique.

Boy, those feminists with ther goals of ensuring all people are treated equally and fairly sure are cliquish! What a bunch of bullies they are for telling people that projecting personal problems on half the population probably isn’t condusive to getting laid.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Anyway, WAN’s idiocy is self evident. I’m glad Poster took him down a peg on his own site, but it makes no difference. We don’t have to jump because he says jump. He has to substantiate his idiotic claims before they should be taken seriously by anyone. Good luck with that.

Of course, but the beatdown courtesy of Poster is a satisfying read. WAN’s replies to Poster are… unconvincing. A lot of frothy “nuh uh”ing. Is anyone surprised? :p

These guys think we’re being mean to them by repeatedly explaining their flaws, but it’s really a kindness. While there’s only a very small chance that they’ll eventually stop crying and start listening, it’s certainly more of a chance than they’d have if we completely left them to their own MRM devices! Goodness knows I’m not suffering because a MRA has flushed himself out of the dating pool — by whinging on and on he’s only hurting himself, and definitely not accomplishing any of his girl-meeting goals. When we give them the honest scoop about why women don’t like them it’s painful for them, but if they’d actually consider taking our advice it would do them a lot of good!

Pecunium
9 years ago

The lurkes support me in e-mail is a usenet trope, it’s the, “everybody really agrees with me, but they are afraid to say so because all of you are so mean,” idea.

Alek said that “all men” really think the same sort of things as are being said in that blog.

And yeah, his idea that one ought to be, “civil” seems to be different when the idea is that women suck.

Wasn’t he arguing that he wasn’t an MRA?

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

The lurkes support me in e-mail is a usenet trope, it’s the, “everybody really agrees with me, but they are afraid to say so because all of you are so mean,” idea.

Well, you are an internet bully, hat with your facts and citations and studies and things! That’s just like being sentenced to a GULAG!

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Eh, I’d rather be a caddy bitch than someone who thinks datelessness is the same as genocide.

Is a caddy bitch someone who carries the golfers’ clubs but makes fun of their game at the same time? ‘Cause that would be awesome. 🙂

luke123
luke123
9 years ago

Boy, those feminists with ther goals of ensuring all people are treated equally and fairly sure are cliquish! What a bunch of bullies they are for telling people that projecting personal problems on half the population probably isn’t condusive to getting laid.

Funny that you say that. Projecting their personal problems on half the population seems to be exactly what feminists do when I read some feminist blogs. Just look at the links in the blogroll. Fair and equal treatment is way down on the list of priorities. Feminisms biggest problem at the moment is that most women actually like men.

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

Luke is entering the Not Even Wrong territory.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Luke: Please, explain what you mean by the blogrolls. Because I’m confused as fuck. You can tell a blog’s content by the title? Shakesville, then, is clearly for people with Parkinson’s and MS! Hark, a Vagrant is by homeless people, for homeless people!

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Yeah, it’s really funny, because nearly all of the women who post regularly on the blog say they like men–even those who are sexually attracted to women exclusively. In fact, the only man-hating feminist I’ve ever known personally was a somewhat odd and damaged person I met in college. I’m not even sure she identified as a feminist, but she hated men because she had been a victim of childhood sexual abuse. I couldn’t agree with her (being a man and all), but I could understand where she was coming from.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Projecting their personal problems on half the population seems to be exactly what feminists do when I read some feminist blogs.

Yeah, feminists! Just because women are the half of the population overwhelmingly targeted by things like harassment and rape, which are overwhelmingly committed by the other half of the population, doesn’t mean you’re not just projecting your personal problems onto men! Why can’t y’all please just stop blaming other people for what happens to you, even if those people literally perpetrated it?

Molly Ren
9 years ago

“Feminisms biggest problem at the moment is that most women actually like men.”

Yes, we… we do like men.

Many straight women like men. Also gay men. And bi people too! 😀

Why is this a problem for feminism, exactly?

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Pandagon:
Activist introspection
Politics
Politics
Post on why it’s okay to have personal hangups (with absolutely no projection)
Cooking
Feminism
30 Day Challenge
Feminism
Geekiness
Geekiness
Not sure if this falls under anything
Feminism
politics
politics

Care to actually substantiate your bullshit claim, Luke?

Magical Laura (@_magical_laura)

“What I want to know is: what would happen if Andrea Dworkin rose from the dead and bred a mutant army of zombie-manginas using the stolen sperm of Larry Flint? What if she was receiving secret signals from Hitler’s cryogenically preserved brain? What if Richard Simmons was elected Pope and forced all the Cardinals to wear running shorts?”

I still can’t stop laughing at this comment, <3 Captain Bathrobe.

yzek
yzek
9 years ago

About nerds in relationship:

Considering not only result, but effort and time required. I don’t agree that some horrible flaws make difference betwen W&N and other nerds; my claim is that only time is required. Give anyone misery for long enough, and reasonably sane mind starts producing its nasty but ego-protecting tricks.

I won’t take pride from what I’ve done to overcome nerdiness handicap, because that didn’t make me any better – just somehow more acceptable by women. And I repeat myself: I wish to opt out from being an stone trhown at less lucky ones.

Thank you and goodbye.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
9 years ago

It is unfortunate that he ended the responses with “most guys think like this” because otherwise I might have actually responded to the rest of it. I *know* the best friend does not think like that. He could not hide it from me for very long.

shaenon
9 years ago

I tend to agree that these guys who claim that women pay no attention to them really mean that “high-status” (whatever that might mean) women are uninterested in them. Despite what they say, I don’t believe that the OV’s are really pursuing companionship or even sexual gratification… I think they’re really after the status they would get from being in the company of a conventionally beautiful woman, and are frustrated that they can’t. I.e. the OV’s real lament is that he can’t compete with other men (so you get the endless whining about “alphas”).

That’s the vibe I get, too. I remember MRAL once commented that if he ever got a girlfriend, he’d probably hate her. THEN WHY WOULD YOU HYPOTHETICALLY BE DATING HER? Oh, right, to impress other men. Like they care.

The whole thread where Poster explains why WAN is single is awesome. The most amazing part is where he says that WAN probably only goes after the absolute hottest women, and multiple guys respond that of course those are the only women you should ask out! They also all scoff at the notion that women can tell they’re assholes; after all, they try to briefly conceal their hatred and disdain toward women when it comes time to try some PUA move on a hottie, and what woman could see through that?

Then they spend the rest of the thread whining about how mean women are for not going out with them.

Keeps them off the streets, I guess.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

I’ll give that flounce by yzek a… say 8.5 for difficulty. Assuming zie sticks the landing, they’ll get a decent score. Bated breath!

Sharculese
9 years ago

If the purpose of your empty life is mocking, surely you shouldn’t get all huffy and butthurt if you’re precious feminism gets mocked back at you.

commenting on a blog in your spare time equals dedicating your life. well you are just the king of lame false equivalencies now arent you?

dawg nobody here is ‘butthurt’ (really, people still say butthurt?) because we point out the myriad problems with your analogies. maybe if you werent feeling so defensive you wouldnt feel the need to lash out with so many lame cliches?

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Give anyone misery for long enough, and reasonably sane mind starts producing its nasty but ego-protecting tricks.

Sometimes people also take steps to change the miserable situation, and act logically to achieve their goals, instead of beating their heads against the brick walls of their personal dysfunctions while loudly blaming the world for the fact that their heads hurt.

But yanno, that’s probably just my girly nerd mind being all rational and shit.

luke123
luke123
9 years ago

“Feminisms biggest problem at the moment is that most women actually like men.”

Yes, we… we do like men.

Many straight women like men. Also gay men. And bi people too!

Why is this a problem for feminism, exactly?

Surely as a good feminist you should know that women who like men are ‘gender traitors’. A good feminist should be a lesbian, and not because she likes women, but because she hates men. In order for feminists to get their anti-mail agenda’s realized, they need enough man-haters to support them. According to feminists, women who like men are just to stupid to realize how oppressed they are. In doing so, feminists actually are the greatest misogynists of them all.

Look at this one: http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2011/07/18/a-bit-of-lighthearted-fun/

Basically, according to this feminist, consensual sex between men and women is impossible. I know the article is titled ‘some lighthearted fun’, so I’m not sure is that’s also one of those ‘mocking’ blogs. Probably, but in a different way than this one. Her mocking goes to women who get burned by a relationship with a men. One more potential recruit for the femininist hate movement, she seems to be thinking.

But anyway, if she has her way, male sexuality would be criminalized. All sex is rape.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

The most amazing part is where he says that WAN probably only goes after the absolute hottest women, and multiple guys respond that of course those are the only women you should ask out! They also all scoff at the notion that women can tell they’re assholes; after all, they try to briefly conceal their hatred and disdain toward women when it comes time to try some PUA move on a hottie, and what woman could see through that?

Yep, these are the guys who lurk through a con full of single geeky women without sparing them a glance (or at least, without sparing a glance that isn’t full of disdain) just so they can silently stalk Felicia Day all weekend from the back of the room. And then whine that they can’t find girls.

YA DON’T SAY. -_-

luke123
luke123
9 years ago

commenting on a blog in your spare time equals dedicating your life. well you are just the king of lame false equivalencies now arent you?

Why are you so defensive ?

Lauralot
Lauralot
9 years ago

@ Captain Bathrobe: Regarding caddy bitches (as opposed to catty): Once upon a time on a different forum a troll informed the board we were all “caddy bitches who can’t get laid.” It has been my default absurd insult since.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

But anyway, if she has her way, male sexuality would be criminalized. All sex is rape.

She said nothing of the sort. It looks like she said, from a radical feminist perspective, that fully free consent is impossible when there is no fully free lack of consent. It’s a radical way to examine the concept of “consent”, not a piece of legislation. No one is being criminalized, heterosexuals are not being blamed or mocked, and no one is even being told to stop fucking dudes — it’s basically a thought experiment.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Basically, according to this feminist, consensual sex between men and women is impossible. I know the article is titled ‘some lighthearted fun’, so I’m not sure is that’s also one of those ‘mocking’ blogs. Probably, but in a different way than this one. Her mocking goes to women who get burned by a relationship with a men. One more potential recruit for the femininist hate movement, she seems to be thinking.

If you actually read what Twisty says, she begins this position philosophically, and refers to how the law makes consent irrelevant, through the assumption of consent. This is more or less correct, if you look at sexual assault case law, and it tends to piss feminists off that this is correct. I’m not positive she actually applies this to everyday life, because she is rather specific in saying “If you’ve never lied back and thought of england, that’s great for you!”. If she doesn’t mean that consent is actually, literally impossible, then I have less than 0 problems with her, and I can’t see why you’d think otherwise. I part ways with her if she does decide to say that, but again, I don’t think that’s the case. Still doesn’t mean feminism is a hate movement, it means some feminists are fucking pissed about the misogynistic state of the world still.

I find it curious that your evidence that feminism is a hate movement doesn’t actually involve any oppression of men, but argument against the status quo.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

From the comments on the I Blame the Patriarchy link:

Rididill
July 22, 2011 at 10:02 am

We’re talking about the unknowable nature of free will in an admittedly, obviously, unequal society. The impossibility of knowing our own true motivations is universally applied. We can only move closer towards that self-knowledge by being aware of the forces acting upon us, and we’ll still never know.

It’s nothing to with telling someone what they’re subjective experience is; it’s a general point about the relationship between individual consciousness and social conditioning and what that means for oppressed classes.

Ooh, the unknowable nature of free will is so man-hating! (Be honest, luke123, did you understand a single word of this excerpt? It’s okay if you don’t; no one here expects you to. ;D)

luke123
luke123
9 years ago

Ooh, the unknowable nature of free will is so man-hating! (Be honest, luke123, did you understand a single word of this excerpt? It’s okay if you don’t; no one here expects you to. ;D)

She is saying women have no free will. She’s a misogynist.

mediumdave
9 years ago

Heh. The average MRA will read a radical feminist blog about as well as the average second grader will read an article on… say, advanced metallurgical technologies. He might understand some of the words, but the overall meaning will definitely elude him.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Luke123Surely as a good feminist you should know that women who like men are ‘gender traitors’. A good feminist should be a lesbian, and not because she likes women, but because she hates men. In order for feminists to get their anti-mail agenda’s realized, they need enough man-haters to support them. According to feminists, women who like men are just to stupid to realize how oppressed they are. In doing so, feminists actually are the greatest misogynists of them all.

WhahhahahahaHAHAHAhhahahahha

Hoo…!

Damn. Could you share that shit with the rest of the class, because it’s a lot better than anything I can get here in Jersey.

IBTP, is being a mix of serious and sardonic. I don’t agree with her conclusion, (i.e. that it’s not really possible to freely consent because one can’t withdraw it; and that this is true no matter how enlightened the man with whom one is sleeping happens to be), because, as a man, I am not of the opinion that consent isn’t revocable. I’d say that should my partners decide they’ve had enough I’d like to think they know I’ll stop.

The meat of the matter is you are doing what so many accuse Dave of doing. You have taken a single post, and said it represents all of feminism. Ok, if you want to make that fact-claim, support it. Go and find me the other feminsists who are both echoing that argument, and making the one you are extrapolating from it (which, BTW, appears nowhere in the the post you cited. IBTP doesn’t argue that one needs to become a lesbian separatist, she argues that one needs to be an activist against the patriarchy, so that one can have free consent, absent the idea that once given it is good until the male is done having sex).

But anyway, if she has her way, male sexuality would be criminalized. All sex is rape.

Citation needed. Show me the support for this claim of yours, in her text. Because either my grasp of English and argument is failing here, or you are reading into it things which were not said.

Pecunium
9 years ago

luke123:

Ooh, the unknowable nature of free will is so man-hating! (Be honest, luke123, did you understand a single word of this excerpt? It’s okay if you don’t; no one here expects you to. ;D)

She is saying women have no free will. She’s a misogynist.

And the answer to the problem I posed at the end of my last comment is answered.

The lack of clarity with English does not lie with me.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Why are you so defensive ?

Why are you such a fuckwit?

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

She is saying women have no free will. She’s a misogynist.

Yes. You are absolutely right, bless your heart. Good job. *shakes head sadly, pats luke123 gently on the cheek and hands him a snack*

(He tries so hard, I just can’t bring myself to tell him the truth! Poor little tyke. ^^)

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Since you know all about genocide in the 20th century (where is VoiP?) perhaps you’d like to acknowledge that what OVR said, as quoted by the original post is just a bit… hyperbolic? Give me hyperbolic.

VoiP gets up at one in the afternoon and goes to bed at sunup. SORRY PEOPLE

Sharculese
9 years ago

Why are you so defensive ?

did… you actually just i-know-you-are-but-what-am-i me? what did i say about cliches?

Sharculese
9 years ago

guys im really glad that luke is here to explain feminism to us. why do all these dudes think they have access to some secret codex of feminist interpretation that the blog full of feminists doesnt?

luke123
luke123
9 years ago

“But anyway, if she has her way, male sexuality would be criminalized. All sex is rape.”

Citation needed. Show me the support for this claim of yours, in her text. Because either my grasp of English and argument is failing here, or you are reading into it things which were not said.

It the logical conclusion. I’ll spell it out for you:
if
* consensual sex between a man and a woman is impossible
then:
* all sex that occurs between a man and a woman must be non-consensual

and as we know that:
* non-consensual sex is rape
and
* all sex that occurs between a man and a woman must be non-consensual
then
* all sex between a man and a woman is rape.

So then as:
* rape is a crime
and
* all sex between a man and a woman is rape
then
* all sex between a man and a woman is a crime.
QED

Flib
Flib
9 years ago

Luke, have you heard the term feminisms? Never mind that your reading comprehension is absolutely piss poor to begin with, but clearly you’ve never heard of this concept. It is quite sad how many individuals associated (or claim not to be associated but repeat the same memes) with the MRA come in here thinking they have the singular one understanding of feminism, and then get even that wrong by failure to actually read and comprehend without a cognitive bias.

Joanna
9 years ago

I just got here but wow Luke! Have you ever spoken to a woman before?