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Gödwindämmerung: Women who won’t date nerds are like Pol Pot

Note to angry dudes: Women not wanting to date you is not the equivalent of this.

There needs to be a Manboobz Addendum to Godwin’s Law to cover those who compare their lack of dating success to, you know, genocide. You may recall the charming Tumblr dude who equated dateless “nice guys” with persecuted Jews in Nazi Germany.

And now we have “white and nerdy,” the blogger behind Omega Virgin Revolt taking the datelessness=genocide thing a step or two further. As you might guess from the title of his blog, WAN doesn’t exactly have women beating a path to his door. Not even golddiggers, even though he is, he says, “a widly successful owner of my own business.” Women don’t even want to use him for his money? Why is that? Because he is not a — wait for it – “alpha” man.

Yep, it’s the same old dopey logic we’ve seen so, so many times before: Women won’t date me => therefore I’m not an alpha => therefore women won’t date anyone but alphas. WAN has added one more step to this illogical logic chaim: this makes them the equivalent of genocidal monstere:

The ideology that women act on is the ideology of Pol Pot, of the Killing Fields.  Women want non-alpha men purged and intelligence is considered by women to be a lack of alphaness in a man.  This is similar to the ideology that led to the killing fields.  Many of the millions who were murdered by the Khmer Rouge in the Killing Fields were murdered for showing signs of intelligence.  That included everything from education to the possesion of wristwatches and/or glasses.  If modern geeky hobbies had existed in Cambodia in the 70s, I’m sure that would have been included along with wristwatches and glasses as evidence of intelligence, and anyone interested in geeky hobbies would have been murdered too.

He’s making a could-not-possibly-be-more-strained reference to the whole Alyssa Bereznak/Jon Finkel kerfuffle. Bereznak, as most of you probably already know, wrote a sort of snarky, sort of stupid piece for Gizmodo about her date with Finkel, a champion Magic the Gathering player, and said some mean things about him and his geeky hobby. Pol Pot engineered the deaths of roughly 2 million people, many of them urban dwellers and intellectuals forced to relocate to collective farms in the countryside. Many died of starvation; others were shot – or beaten to death, in order to save on bullets.

So, yeah, Bereznak and Pol Pot are pretty much identical.

WAN continues:

[T] ideology of what women are doing now and what Pol Pot did are very similar.  The Killing Fields needed to be opposed for both moral and practical reasons and so must what women are doing now.  Rebel at The Spearhead said that women are engaged in a “holy crusade” against men. … The Khmer Rouge was also on a “holy crusade”.  As Rebel also said what is at stake is nothing less than civilization itself and your existence and freedom just as it was with the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.

In an earlier post pretty much making the identical, er, “argument,” WAN takes aim at comedian Julie Klausner, who recently published a memoir called I Don’t Care About Your Band: What I Learned from Indie Rockers, Trust Funders, Pornographers, Faux Sensitive Hipsters, Felons and Others. In her book, and in some interviews about the book, Klausner made some unflattering comments about “beta males” and “immature” men. This sends WAN into a rage:

Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot would be proud of this cunt.  She all but calls for concentration camps for her “useless beta inferior men” who secretly run the world.  … 

Ah, classic weasel words: “All but calls for.” In other words, she doesn’t actually call for concentration camps, or even rock ‘n’ roll fantasy camps, for men in any way shape or form. Never mind. WAN continues:

Somehow these “straight angry nerds” who are “useless and inferior” took over the world when no one was looking and this cunt says “something needs to be done” about this “epidemic”.

This type of thinking is widespread among women.  …

[I]t’s no surprise that a lot of men are saying they think they would be better off with the Taliban running things.  While I’m not sure that isn’t just trading one set of problems for another … I understand what these men are thinking.  Anything has got to be better than this.

So: Nerdy men are “oppressed” by women who won’t date them. The solution to this imaginary oppression: oppress women for real.

I couldn’t make this shit up.

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Lauralot
Lauralot
9 years ago

Yes, because one woman mocked a man, that means all women treat men as subhuman. Truly, your logic is impeccable, Bill.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

I’m just saying that if you stopped treating men who can’t get laid easily as subhumans then maybe you wouldn’t have growing numbers of men who think you want them dead.

Being stupid isn’t being subhuman. It’s amazingly human actually.

Sharculese
9 years ago

and im saying that if anyone had did that you might have something approaching a point. but nobody did so you dont.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

*peers*

Hmm… the trolls are missing o_O

Wow… that’s a rly… rly… rly… extreme… fantasy… comparison o_o;;;

So many of these ppl seem to have abs no sense of scale o_O Like if you went to their homes I’m sure everything would be lopsided, and doors would be 3 feet tall and then 8 feet tall xD

They can’t just be like “wow what a jerk” about Alyssa… they have to be like IT IS LIKE A GENOCIDE! PPL LIKE HER ARE LIKE WAR CRIMINALS or something xD

I’m so curious btw about how she “all but” called for internment camps? xD

sloejenphys
sloejenphys
9 years ago

Holy overreaction Batman! Yeah, not wanting to date you does not equal “purging” you from society, nor does belief in your own intelligence mean your lacks of dates=women don’t want to date intelligent men.

On a different note I like the side discussion of dating nerds and douchebags (not mutually exclusive). As a nerd myself (I even wear glasses!) I like to date nerds, but my definition of nerd is someone who studies/reads a lot and likes to learn, so they tend to be intelligent (or at least well informed). I think of those involved with Star Trek/Magic/WOW/random “uncool” (according to society in general not me specifically) hobbies to be geeks, but I understand local definitions vary.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Fine, Bill. Fine.

How are we treating men who can’t get laid as subhumans? Enlighten us.

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

You’re confusing gamers with nerds.

Sigh… Time for the Geek Hierarchy

They need to update it so the bottom box is misogynistic douchebags that nerd-raged at Courtney Stanton during the Dick Wolves War

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Bill | September 6, 2011 at 10:22 pm
I’m just saying that if you stopped treating men who can’t get laid easily as subhumans then maybe you wouldn’t have growing numbers of men who think you want them dead.

Who’s “you”? o_O

Kaydern
Kaydern
9 years ago

I’m just saying that if you stopped treating men who can’t get laid easily as subhumans then maybe you wouldn’t have growing numbers of men who think you want them dead.

Bill: I have nothing against men who can’t get laid easily. I can’t get laid easily, and yet there is no hate flowing from me. I don’t think dudes who refuse to tear off their pants at the mere sight of me are evil. I certainly don’t think they’re (potential) mass-murdering fucks. I think it’s completely reasonable to expect the same lack of hate from other folks who have trouble finding sexual partners. I’m holding this fellow to the same standard that I follow– how is that treating him as subhuman?

When other humans can’t manage this, I make fun of them. It’s not kind, but it is nothing like wishing them dead. How did you confuse the two?

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

Bill
I’m just saying that if you stopped treating men who can’t get laid easily as subhumans then maybe you wouldn’t have growing numbers of men who think you want them dead.

Exploding blueballs is now the leading killer among young gamers.
True story, bro!

Pecunium
9 years ago

Bill: Since you all are treating men like W&N who were unlucky enough to have women dislike him as a pariah that needs to be shunned, you are really proving his point for him.

And the alternative to calling idiocy idiocy is what?

To take this nonsense at face value? To allow him to compare his personal inability to get dates to the Khmer Rouge killing 20 percent of Cambodians in the pursuit of a misguided attempt to equalise the system?

Because that’s that he did. He took Pol Pot’s ability to convince a whole lot of people they were being oppressed by people who weren’t oppressing them and accusing women of doing that to men because he can’t get a date.

A quick look at the facts on the ground shows that women are not, as a class, refusing to spend time with men. They may be refusing to spend time with him, but the smart money would bet that’s because of some specific aspect of his personality.

I’m just saying that if you stopped treating men who can’t get laid easily as subhumans then maybe you wouldn’t have growing numbers of men who think you want them dead.

Well, if that’s what was happening, you’d have a point. But it’s not, and you don’t.

We aren’t even treating this moron as subhuman. We are treating him as all to0 typical of a certain stripe of humanity, oddly enough it’s the stripe which has personal problems and then blames them on some other group; saying it’s the malevolent intent to deny them of the rightful glory they deserve, and then calling for retaliation.

It’s practically Godwin-like, and recursive to the post.

footnotegirl
footnotegirl
9 years ago

Sometimes, I feel like I have to check my pants or something.
Let’s see: Met first major significant other at a Dungeons and Dragons game. Was with him 7 years.
Met next major significant other during online roleplaying game. Was in LD relationship with him 2 years. We are still friends.
Met husband at a “geek movie night” event, a fundraiser for a Sci-Fi/Fantasy convention. Was proposed to during opening ceremony of said convention. We play video games together. We buy eachother comic books and cutesy t-shirts from Woot with geek inside jokes “Oh look honey! It’s a Delorean crashing into the TARDIS!”
Said husband has a Masters degree in Physiological Psych and currently works as a database architect (he is not a dumb bunny). So, geeky /and/ smart. Also? 5’8″ so, not tall.
And yet somehow, I remain steadfastly a) female and b) a feminist.
HOW CAN THIS BE, I AM ANATHEMA TO ALL REALITY.
Or, something. Maybe Omega Virgin Revolt is, you know, wrong.
(Oh, also, the sci-fi convention? has 51% female attendance. Also? A not insignificant proportion of the fandom I am around is polyamorous, which means there are geek guys not only dating and in long term relationships, but… dating and in long term relationships with multiple women at once. And yet they somehow manage to do so while being able to name every episode of Doctor Who ever and go into massive detail about arcane video game plotlines. CRAZY TALK, RIGHT?)

Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

I’m just saying that if you stopped treating men who can’t get laid easily as subhumans then maybe you wouldn’t have growing numbers of men who think you want them dead.

Yes, but are we spitting on them? That’s the real question. ‘Cause you sound an awful lot like the kind of guy who would ask it.

Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Also, saying “you’re proving x point by doing y” is the most overused construct on the internet.

Bill
Bill
9 years ago

The alternative is to stop being a lynch mob. Declaring that men who can’t get laid as having psychological problems, or as potential mass murderers, or as pedophiles is pure and simple biogtry. OVR is not the only man suffering from this problem so you people can’t claim that it’s a problem specific to him.

Women treated him the exact same way when he wasn’t a misogynist you all are treating him now. OVR has issued all of you a challenge to explain that one:
http://omegavirginrevolt.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/a-question-no-woman-or-mangina-will-ever-answer/

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

The alternative is to stop being a lynch mob. Declaring that men who can’t get laid as having psychological problems, or as potential mass murderers, or as pedophiles is pure and simple biogtry.

Who here is doing that?

Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

I have an answer: maybe he’s just an asshole.

Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Seriously, though, being lonely sucks. No one here as stated that men who can’t get laid are pedophiles or potential mass murderers. The insinuation that some of these guys are psychologically damaged is based on their words, not the fact that they can’t get laid.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

The alternative is to stop being a lynch mob. Declaring that men who can’t get laid as having psychological problems, or as potential mass murderers, or as pedophiles is pure and simple biogtry. OVR is not the only man suffering from this problem so you people can’t claim that it’s a problem specific to him.

Who’s saying that? o:

ozymandias42
9 years ago

I don’t know why he couldn’t get laid. Maybe he was creepy. Maybe he was an asshole. Maybe he was shy and never hit on people he found attractive. Maybe he just had bad luck; the world isn’t a perfect place, and sometimes perfectly attractive, deserving people can’t get laid for love or money while assholes drown in pussy.

I do know this: sex is not a reward you get for being a decent person. You cannot compel someone to have sex with you because you’re nice. Loneliness is awful, but the only way to prevent some people from being lonely is rape, which is hardly optimal either.

MissPrism
9 years ago

I happen to know a world champion nerd, but at a different and even less fashionable game. He’s not a rich hedge fund manager in his day job either. And yet! Married with kids! His wife is rather a lovely lady who AFAIK has done nothing to oppress him except forbidding him to bet their house on a game with a newbie, which had been his recruiting tactic until they moved in together.
See, Bereznac is not Women. She, one individual woman, rejected a nerd whom plenty of other women would not. She needn’t have been nasty about it, but the rejection is her call.

Similarly, Mr OVS is not All Men Who Can’t Get Laid. He, as an individual, is the one being mocked here, not for his inability to get laid but because what he said was ridiculous. (Or are you really trying to tell me with a straight face that his quotes above are not mock-worthy?)

shaenon
9 years ago

And yeah, the Gizmodo piece was both mean and kinda shooting themselves in the foot – I would there’s some pretty significant overlap between Gizmodo’s target audience and people who play magic.

That was my first thought, and some people said as much on the Gizmodo comments. I mean, what did that woman think, that folks on a tech blog were going to agree that people with geeky interests are gross?

As helpful reference for the MRAs in the audience, Jon Finkel’s online response to the whole thing is the normal human response to romantic rejection. He commented that if she felt that way about him and his job, they weren’t a good match anyway, and politely thanked all the nerdy girls who have been propositioning him since the article came out. That is a man who will never have to whine to the Internet about his inability to get laid and which genocide it most closely resembles.

yzek
yzek
9 years ago

As a married nerd with kids I refuse to serve as counterexample (justification?) for mockery taking place here. It’s much similar to having gay “friends” as validation for someone’s homophobic views.

I’m taking site of “angry dudes” who have valid points to be angry, and I would not leave it because one of them made exagerrated comments soooo easy to laugh at.

Have a laugh. I’m outta here.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

I have a question… after reading the Omega man’s blog… how are the manginas getting laid? o_O

noahbrand
9 years ago

Ami: Speaking just for myself, frequently and in most perverted ways.

MissPrism
9 years ago

Nobody is mocking nerds here. Nearly everyone is proudly claiming the nerd label. But don’t let that spoil your flounce, sunshine!

yzek
yzek
9 years ago

“Nobody is mocking nerds here.”

O yeah, I’m happy not to be the last one in pecking order, thankyouverymuch.

luke123
luke123
9 years ago

@ozymandias42 wrote:
” Loneliness is awful, but the only way to prevent some people from being lonely is rape, which is hardly optimal either.”

Interesting. Rape is a solution for loneliness. Not optimal, but still a solution.
If ozymandias42 a feminist or an MRA ?
This blog is getting weirder and weirder.

MissPrism
9 years ago

Hurrah! Flounce 1, 50 minutes.

What “valid point to be angry”, and let’s just pretend that’s in any way grammatical, does OVS have?

MissPrism
9 years ago

PS when some guys rejected me in the past it was EXACTLY like the Permian-Triassic extinction event

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Interesting. Rape is a solution for loneliness. Not optimal, but still a solution.
If ozymandias42 a feminist or an MRA ?
This blog is getting weirder and weirder.

Reading comprehension much? In context she’s clearly opposed to rape.

luke123
luke123
9 years ago

“PS when some guys rejected me in the past it was EXACTLY like the Permian-Triassic extinction event”

But what do you think would happen if someone like Mary Daly somehow managed to grab power and instituted a feminist dictatorship ?
What do you think of quotes like ” “If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males.”

yzek
yzek
9 years ago

Explain myself? What for, another “flounce” comment and language skill criticism?

luke123
luke123
9 years ago

“Reading comprehension much? In context she’s clearly opposed to rape.”

Saying something might help but is not optimal is being clearly opposed ? No it’s not.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

But what do you think would happen if someone like Mary Daly somehow managed to grab power and instituted a feminist dictatorship ?

Um, I don’t know, cupcakes would rain from the sky because this is obviously counterfactual and she’s a marginal figure? Because, having been called on your bullshit, it’s obvious that by now you’re reaching, hardcore?

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Saying something might help but is not optimal is being clearly opposed ? No it’s not.

Are you familiar with the term “context”? You can visit her blogs (she has 2) and read aaaaall about her positions on a number of issues, which will add depth to your point of view of what she says at any particular moment, allowing you to tell the difference between her position and what we in the biz call “sarcasm.”

blitzgal
9 years ago

Oh, oh, oh (raising hand)! I have an answer for OVR. It’s because you haven’t actually changed as a person. See, your reaction to one woman allegedly making a false sexual harassment complaint against you is to despise ALL women. Your reaction to some women rejecting you sexually is to think that ALL women are pieces of garbage. So the nastiness was already there in your personality before you became a misogynist. In fact, my guess is that you were always a misogynist. You just wore the Nice Guy mask and hid it.

Now give me my cookie.

MissPrism
9 years ago

Specifically, ozy was using litotes, sarcastic understatement particularly if expressed by negating an opposite to the intended meaning – as in “Yzek would not win any awards for making sense”.

I love rhetorical terms. Tapinosis is my favourite. It’s the use of derogatory diction, like “Oooooo! TapinOsis!”

luke123
luke123
9 years ago

Um, I don’t know, cupcakes would rain from the sky because this is obviously counterfactual

Of course it’s counterfactual. Good thing too. I just want to show that it’s reasonable that some people would be wary of giving feminists, or any vague hate group for that matter, too much power.

she’s a marginal figure
Not as marginal as the MRA’s you bash all the time. You can bash MRA’s, but I cannot bash a somewhat less marginal feminist ?

Because, having been called on your bullshit
What bullshit ?

luke123
luke123
9 years ago

“Specifically, ozy was using litotes, sarcastic understatement particularly if expressed by negating an opposite to the intended meaning – as in “Yzek would not win any awards for making sense”.

I love rhetorical terms. Tapinosis is my favourite. It’s the use of derogatory diction, like “Oooooo! TapinOsis!”

The MRA’s are using lilotes and Tapinosis too.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Not as marginal as the MRA’s you bash all the time. You can bash MRA’s, but I cannot bash a somewhat less marginal feminist

Nobody said that you couldn’t bash Mary Daly. Bash away. But don’t use a ludicrous hypothetical in which she installs a feminist dictatorship as a counterpoint to OVR’s actual claim that women not sleeping him is equivalent to genocide.

That’s nothing but a trite diversionary tactic that adds nothing of value to the discussion. And it’s silly.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
9 years ago

I took his challenge and I am fairly sure he will proceed to claim it is all women’s fault for us being awful awful people and he is the epitome of perfection that women should be throwing themselves at.

Which based on his posts and my own personal experience, it is him not us. And it has to be really out there because the Best Friend is pretty much as much of an emotionless uncontrollable ass as you can be and he still gets women falling in love with him. Well as long as you ignore the vast number of faults he has. 🙂

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

What bullshit ?

The part where you try to imply that Ozy’s in favor of rape.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

The MRA’s are using lilotes…

Examples of carefully-constructed understatement:

Saying that not going out with a dude = killing one fifth of the inhabitants of Cambodia (“white and nerdy,” above)
Calling for the extermination of almost all women, the extra-super-sweetest to be kept as slaves for powerful men (DKM)
Claiming that the only way for the conflict between the genders to cease is to move men to one side of the Mississippi, women to the other, fulfill all our romantic needs in VR, and replace bearing children with cloning and artificial womb technology. (Anthony Zarat)

Huh. I’m not really seeing it here.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

The part where you try to imply that Ozy’s in favor of rape.

And therefore, of course, that we’re all awful, awful people.

Joanna
9 years ago

But nerds are awesome! I’d say this guy has set his standards waaaaay too high and is upset that the perfect blonde Swedish girl is not interested in him and his self owned business. Although it could be that he’s completely off the wall either.

mediumdave
9 years ago

But nerds are awesome!

Why, thanks, Joanna! 🙂 I tend to agree that these guys who claim that women pay no attention to them really mean that “high-status” (whatever that might mean) women are uninterested in them. Despite what they say, I don’t believe that the OV’s are really pursuing companionship or even sexual gratification… I think they’re really after the status they would get from being in the company of a conventionally beautiful woman, and are frustrated that they can’t. I.e. the OV’s real lament is that he can’t compete with other men (so you get the endless whining about “alphas”).

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

The alternative is to stop being a lynch mob. Declaring that men who can’t get laid as having psychological problems, or as potential mass murderers,

We said he was an asshole for comparing genocide to being dateless.

or as pedophiles is pure and simple biogtry.

We only say this about the jackasses who want to lower age of consent laws past 14.

OVR is not the only man suffering from this problem so you people can’t claim that it’s a problem specific to him.

No, but it’s pretty rare to compare the khmer rouge to your dry spell.
Protip: Nobody here gives a fuck that he is dateless.

As a married nerd with kids I refuse to serve as counterexample (justification?) for mockery taking place here. It’s much similar to having gay “friends” as validation for someone’s homophobic views.

No, no it isn’t. I’ve been a gay friend; that’s where people actually *ARE* bigotted, but say they can’t be! They have a gay friend!

Being dateless is partially the fault of nerds, for reasons I’ve already explained. It’s partially not. But you’re not dateless solely because you’re nerds. That status just doesn’t carry that much weight past high school. It’s a combination of driving women out of your spaces (Except, I’m told, academic nerds; not sure I believe it). You’re also dateless because some women are jerks to nerds. You’re also dateless because you didn’t learn the rules of interaction for dating that normal people silently judge by (I’m not framing this as special to guys; I don’t know them either.), the latter of which is probably the biggest obstacle against dating non-nerds.

But what do you think would happen if someone like Mary Daly somehow managed to grab power and instituted a feminist dictatorship ?

If she automagiced herself into the presidency, she would still be limited by A: the huge numbers of laws preventing genociding her own people and B: the fact that nobody wants to genocide men at all actually. Even dictators are somewhat constrained by what the people want, and making 50% of your population, at bare minimum, enter a state of guerilla warfare against you is one of those constraints. You need a fantasy world for Mary Daly-style idiocy to ever be enacted.

Why do you asshats have to suck at history?

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

The MRA’s are using lilotes and Tapinosis too.

Don’t use words you don’t understand, it’s embarrassing.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Of course it’s counterfactual. Good thing too. I just want to show that it’s reasonable that some people would be wary of giving feminists, or any vague hate group for that matter, too much power.

Don’t compare the feminist movement to the MRA mvoement in saying it’s a ‘vague hate group’. Some feminists are hateful, yes. But even they at least are actually oppressed for their gender; However stupid and over the top I consider it in comparison, those particular, feminists, marginalized even amongst their own, are still closer to the black panther movement than the MRA movement, because the black panther movement was *correct* that there was discrimination against them, and that they were continually being failed by the system at large.

The majority of the feminist movement, which you would know if you had any fucking clue whatsoever, are activists that enact legislation to promote equality. Now, that means helping women more than men, because you know, women are worse off. But ultimately, we want to change things to be better for dudes too, both directly and indirectly, at least in most ways. The closest you can come to saying that most of us are hateful is that we won’t shed a tear when men lose the unfair advantages society places on them. And yes, as scant and scarce as female privilege is, we’d like to end that too (Especially since most of it is detritus that accidentally benefits women, when it’s not just men assuming something thatsucks is actually an advantage).

And finally, if you know it’s utterly impossible, you should probably not compare it to what *actually happened*, which is a dude comparing his datelessness to an atrocity which killed millions.