There needs to be a Manboobz Addendum to Godwin’s Law to cover those who compare their lack of dating success to, you know, genocide. You may recall the charming Tumblr dude who equated dateless “nice guys” with persecuted Jews in Nazi Germany.
And now we have “white and nerdy,” the blogger behind Omega Virgin Revolt taking the datelessness=genocide thing a step or two further. As you might guess from the title of his blog, WAN doesn’t exactly have women beating a path to his door. Not even golddiggers, even though he is, he says, “a widly successful owner of my own business.” Women don’t even want to use him for his money? Why is that? Because he is not a — wait for it – “alpha” man.
Yep, it’s the same old dopey logic we’ve seen so, so many times before: Women won’t date me => therefore I’m not an alpha => therefore women won’t date anyone but alphas. WAN has added one more step to this illogical logic chaim: this makes them the equivalent of genocidal monstere:
The ideology that women act on is the ideology of Pol Pot, of the Killing Fields. Women want non-alpha men purged and intelligence is considered by women to be a lack of alphaness in a man. This is similar to the ideology that led to the killing fields. Many of the millions who were murdered by the Khmer Rouge in the Killing Fields were murdered for showing signs of intelligence. That included everything from education to the possesion of wristwatches and/or glasses. If modern geeky hobbies had existed in Cambodia in the 70s, I’m sure that would have been included along with wristwatches and glasses as evidence of intelligence, and anyone interested in geeky hobbies would have been murdered too.
He’s making a could-not-possibly-be-more-strained reference to the whole Alyssa Bereznak/Jon Finkel kerfuffle. Bereznak, as most of you probably already know, wrote a sort of snarky, sort of stupid piece for Gizmodo about her date with Finkel, a champion Magic the Gathering player, and said some mean things about him and his geeky hobby. Pol Pot engineered the deaths of roughly 2 million people, many of them urban dwellers and intellectuals forced to relocate to collective farms in the countryside. Many died of starvation; others were shot – or beaten to death, in order to save on bullets.
So, yeah, Bereznak and Pol Pot are pretty much identical.
WAN continues:
[T] ideology of what women are doing now and what Pol Pot did are very similar. The Killing Fields needed to be opposed for both moral and practical reasons and so must what women are doing now. Rebel at The Spearhead said that women are engaged in a “holy crusade” against men. … The Khmer Rouge was also on a “holy crusade”. As Rebel also said what is at stake is nothing less than civilization itself and your existence and freedom just as it was with the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.
In an earlier post pretty much making the identical, er, “argument,” WAN takes aim at comedian Julie Klausner, who recently published a memoir called I Don’t Care About Your Band: What I Learned from Indie Rockers, Trust Funders, Pornographers, Faux Sensitive Hipsters, Felons and Others. In her book, and in some interviews about the book, Klausner made some unflattering comments about “beta males” and “immature” men. This sends WAN into a rage:
Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot would be proud of this cunt. She all but calls for concentration camps for her “useless beta inferior men” who secretly run the world. …
Ah, classic weasel words: “All but calls for.” In other words, she doesn’t actually call for concentration camps, or even rock ‘n’ roll fantasy camps, for men in any way shape or form. Never mind. WAN continues:
Somehow these “straight angry nerds” who are “useless and inferior” took over the world when no one was looking and this cunt says “something needs to be done” about this “epidemic”.
This type of thinking is widespread among women. …
[I]t’s no surprise that a lot of men are saying they think they would be better off with the Taliban running things. While I’m not sure that isn’t just trading one set of problems for another … I understand what these men are thinking. Anything has got to be better than this.
So: Nerdy men are “oppressed” by women who won’t date them. The solution to this imaginary oppression: oppress women for real.
I couldn’t make this shit up.
The definition of “alpha” seems to wander about a bit, stretching where necessary. Make a lot of money, but no woman? Not an alpha. 5’4″, bald, wears glasses, but does alright with women? Definitely an alpha. (from the comments on that post). Besides, if we kill off all the betas and lower, won’t the remaining men also be sorted by status? I thought alphas were by definition the top 20% of whatever’s around. Oh, wait, “definition”…. never mind.
Wow. He’s straining so hard to make the analogy, I think he may have pulled a muscle. I’ve gone through some pretty dateless lonely dry spells, but never once did I equate that with genocide. These guys really need to get over themselves.
if you lived in cambodia and the 70s and you could afford a wristwatch or glasses you were probably going to end up a target of the khmer rouge but not for the reasons this dude thinks
and i love the unquestioned assumption that ‘geeky hobbies’ = smarter than
Pecunium, that’s because he has no center. NWO will quote from a website that denies the holocaust on one day and compare feminism to the holocaust the next. He will swear that women’s sole expression of sexuality is cock-teasing and that this is the reason men are driven to sexual assault… and turn right around and use the other side of his mouth to claim that women are always lying about rape.
He is defined by nothing so much as he complete intellectual inconsistency, lack of integrity, and straight out dishonesty.
And… that’s totally in the wrong thread. My apologies.
On topic, not wanting to date someone and possibly making fun of them is exactly genocide. I don’t care what any of you say.
Huh, which genocide should we compare nerdy women not getting dates to? Rwanda? I totally feel comfortable saying, from my middle class white lady life, that getting rejected by a dude is probably just as bad as being murdered with a machete if not worse… that seems reasonable, right?
I think you are silly, and I’m not currently dating you. MWAHAHAHAHA FEEL THE POWER!!
It says something about how cozy your life is when the worst thing you can think of is someone not wanting to date you.
Wow. I don’t have words for this bullshit. White straight dudes don’t have to fear for their lives for existing, and this jackass thinks he can compare his situation to a motherfucking genocide. Fuck.
2 million may sound comparatively small, but Cambodia’s not a big place: per capita, the Cambodian genocide remains the worst in history, with one fifth of the population dead.
That’s a lot of stupid to pack into a pretty small space…
Jeezus. I don’t have words.
And yeah, the Gizmodo piece was both mean and kinda shooting themselves in the foot – I would there’s some pretty significant overlap between Gizmodo’s target audience and people who play magic.
I would THINK there’s… I’m gonna go read Pirate King, I’m clearly to burned out to deal with anything like typing tonight.
The only people I’ve met on this site advocating genocide are MGTOW or MRAs: DKM is literally yearning for the upcoming Gender/Race War, of course, but if people actually tried to implement Anthony Zarat’s ideas, the resulting disruption would lead to economic collapse and possibly starvation. More like the Great Leap Forward.
Yes. I am sure the reason he is dateless is because he’s nerdy. Not the fact that he says and thinks things like this.
Smart women date nerds. They do this because they are interesting, smart, and have cool things to say. This guy is a dumbs therefore smart women won’t date him. He self selected himself out.
Dipshit.
xD…Dramatic much?
(Hi there! I’m normally just lurk! :D)
(I**** normally just lurk!) LOL! First time=Fail! xD
@voip
dont forget marc, who literally advocated a khmer rouge style agrarian dictatorship
@Ray Percival No, actually being a nerd is a significant detriment on this ground. Of course, this is kind of a thing nerds *PARTIALLY* bring on themselves; Nerd-dom in general is extraordinarily male biased, compared to the general population. Nerds can be horrifically misogynist; I remember when WAR refused to make female uhhhh… don’t remember the class name, but the Chaos Tanks. They couldn’t ‘make a good design’. Really? Becausethere were some great ones by fans alone. No, you just didn’t want women to be big, hulking bruisers (Not a lot of gender dimorphism in classes). the fans, mostly went “WHY DO POLITICALLY CORRECT WOMEN KEEP HAVING TO ALTER OUR FLUFF”, despite A: the DEs having their fluff changed for similar ‘political correctness’ reasons (Oh wait, but if they didn’t DE casters and healer players MIGHT HAVE TO BE CHICKS), and B: the fluff already having women in this basic faction and role.
But nerds aren’t all of it. Women get it worse by the rest of society for being nerdy too. Like our own peers growing up. I have seen the difference in sniping the smart kids; it’s not remotely comparable, which is pretty bad because even boy nerds get it pretty bad.
Ray,
would you like to amend that to “many smart women are open to dating nerds, some even doing so preferentially” or something else a little less entitled?
So, the fact that Jon Finkel got hundreds (thousands?) of dating offers after Bereznak’s article came out — well, maybe those ladies were just being sarcastic. Because clearly, the evidence before us showing that one blogging intern finds nerdy hobbies unattractive proves to a certainty that no woman would ever date nerds, and that we have in fact killed the nerds of the world and are whittling their femurs into toothpicks as we speak. (Or had our hunky alpha boyfriends do that.)
YUP!
Nobinayamu: I don’t know that there is a bad thread to point out the actual flaws in NWO. It’s not that he’s male. It’s not that he’s imperfect, it’s that he think the first is culturally disadvantage, and the second wouldn’t matter if he weren’t so proud of the things he is inept at.
The rest of it.. his willful insistence on the rightness of his arrant nonsense, his casual abuse of all who don’t agree with him, the ways in which any actual facts are dismissed with passive aggressive faux apologies, those are the grace notes to his lack of consistency.
Hatred of women not being second class citizens, and, apparently of white men not ruling the world he lives in are what seem to drive him.
Rutee,
You’re confusing gamers with nerds. A nerd can play games but all gamers aren’t nerds and certainly not all nerds are gamers. As Orion points out I phrased what I meant badly. But there are many women who love to date nerds. Many of the, as you point out, nerds themselves.
In the example you give those guys aren’t not getting dates because they’re nerds or even gamers. They’re not getting dates because they’re creepy, immature, and not really all that bight.
Women who do like to date nerds like intelligence. In general. Your example is of not so bright or thoughtful people. Stupid comes in all shapes.
Orion,
Yes. Rereading it the way I said it you are correct. That’s a much better way of saying what I meant. Please do me the favor of reading my earlier post with more qualifiers and such. I did get a bit absolute there and it’s certainly not justified.
And, yes, I’m treading close to a no true scotsman fallacy here and cutting some hairs rather thinly. But I think the distinction is both real and important.
Yet another Nice Guy who does not understand that social hierarchies exist in fundamentalist religious societies as well, and there are still “beta men” in cultures were polygamy is the norm. WAN needs to look into the Lost Boys phenomenon amongst the FLDS for an illustration of this. Low status boys and young men are expelled from the group so that the elders have all of the girls for themselves. I suppose WAN would argue that Lost Boys are somehow the fault of women as well. When women are literally treated like chattel, there are still a small number of men who hold an inordinate amount of power over everyone else, including beta males like WAN. And yet this utter moron thinks that women are the ones oppressing him.
I think I get it. Somebody’s gotta be oppressing somebody or else how do people relate to each other? Women are oppressing men right now, and men don’t want that, therefore they must choose the only alternative, which would be men oppressing women. Nobody oppressing anybody . . . . that’s a pipe dream. What are you, on dope?
Besides, women don’t play fair. Daddy Warcraft Bucks over here understands the social contract; men are achievers and accumulators, and women are gold-diggers (well, at least the attractive ones, amirite?) But now, after he has accepted the natural order of things and gone out and started a business and made a bunch of money so he could lay hot gold-diggers, it turns out they’ve decided to change the rules!
It’s JUST NOT FAIR.
Seriously, I don’t know any men who want to put the Taliban in charge, but are we so certain that Hitler would not have gone on a couple of dates with a Magic champion and then blogged mean things about her? I’m not saying either way, I just think he was capable of it, that’s all. The Goebbels Diaries were fascinating reading when I was younger; I bet the Hitler Livejournal would be riveting.
I’ve heard it’s better for the academic ones, but I’m not particularly close to believing this given the state of STEM education. Either way, ti’s not just gamers.
[quote]In the example you give those guys aren’t not getting dates because they’re nerds or even gamers. They’re not getting dates because they’re creepy, immature, and not really all that bight.
Actually I have no idea whether those individuals are dateless. But I have friends who are interesting, good folks, who *are* alone, because the circles they run in are ones not friendly to women. I don’t know if a few bad apples can ruin the bunch, but when a good majority of the bunch is bad, it’s already ruined, sorta deal.
If you want to follow the wild leaps of logic of that guy, here’s a few assumptions he’s likely working with:
1) Intelligence is 100% genetic.
2) Being a nerd or socially inept automatically means you’re intelligent (Being an RPG nerd, I call that the Point Buy Fallacy: if you have low Charisma, Strenght, Constitution and Dexterity, you MUST have put those points somewhere else… ;)). There belief in the converse is also why this species of geek have some sort of brainfail if confronted with a smart jock, extroverted geek or an intelligent but attractive woman).
3) Women dating choice are purely constrained by evo psych and a conscious or unconscious (I believe this bozo assumes it’s conscious) eugenist drive.
Therefore not dating geeks = eugenistically weeding out intelligence from the species = nerd genocide.
Interesting. My experience is pretty much the opposite of yours. In my rather large circle of very nerdy friends I don’t know many who are dateless or alone.
it would be interesting to break this all down into real data. But then you would have to define and control for type of nerd. Gamer, IT, academic, science, what have you. And as my GF has taught me over the last couple of years that gets way complex very quickly.
Of course most if not all of my friends would not run in circles that aren’t friendly to women because that would be … less than optimal and is also wrong. Being unfriendly to women, that is. I think we are using a very big meta term that covers a LOT of ground these days and that likely accounts for our differing points of view.
Of course most if not all of the women in my circle of friends would fall under the nerd label themselves. So it is certainly possible that I just know a lot of outliers.
BlackBloc,
Consider point buy fallacy stolen. With thanks.
Being a nerd is cool. Being a hyperbolic misogynist who thinks that teasing is on par with genocide is not.
Remember kids, if a woman shows anything but fawning adoration for a man, she’s on par with a tyrannical dictator. And the solution to this is to treat women as they would be treated by tyrannical dictators.
Gain some perspective, WAN.
Breaking down variations of nerd into the amazingly specific will probably start getting difficult, yes. But academic work on fandoms is beginning to be written. I know for a fact that research has been published on the furry fandom, strictly academically (And not because The Furries Were Weird either). I’ve seen a non-published piece on racism in WoW as well. It gets pretty interesting. And weird.
Kinda off topic, but I’ve always enjoyed the word nerd. I’m always a little sad, though, that the earlier alternative spelling didn’t win out.
@Rutee: Actually, there has been academic scholarship on fandom since the mid-1980s, with a growth in recent years (and it exists in multiple disciplines, computer science, to literature, and everything in between), and that’s on top of the fan scholarship!
I’ve seen a non-published piece on racism in WoW as well. I’m now wondering if this is the same piece that will be appearing in a special issue I’m editing, or ANOTHER piece on race and WoW. There are several bibliographies of fan studies out there that friends of mine have compiled if anyone is interested.
waitwaitwait… racism in WoW? Do you mean, like, figuring out that the guy behind THAT troll there is black, and racisting at him? Or, like, racisting at trolls as a general thing? And, if it’s the second thing, do you mean being racist against the people who play trolls, or against troll characters, or roleplaying a character who is racist against trolls?
I’ve actually done something like that last one… member of a guild whose entire purpose was to be racist against “baseline” humans. It was really, really strange, for everybody involved.
“I couldn’t make this shit up”
No doubt there, ive yet to see anything original here
Since you all are treating men like W&N who were unlucky enough to have women dislike him as a pariah that needs to be shunned, you are really proving his point for him.
Yeah. Being shunned is exactly like genocide.
not sure how making fun of him for blowing things way out of proportion is treating him like a pariah but w/e
Wow, Bill. I’m impressed that someone who apparently can’t read English was nonetheless able to construct a sentence in English that ALMOST makes sense.
Holy crap, that’s it. I had not put my finger on that.
20-sided thinking. One-cornered thinkers are educated stupid!
Yeah, well there’s that too… But, you know, as much as it would suck to be treated like a pariah (if in fact anyone were doing that) I’d probably still prefer it to being killed.
That’s just me though; I’m funny that way.
Thinking that someone is ridiculous for comparing a woman’s rejection to genocide = proving that all women want to commit genocide.
The more you know.
Rutee,
I went to a couple of panels at PAX about game research. Very interesting stuff, yes. The thing that is really neat to me is that these are gamers/nerds/academics. People who “get” it doing research on it makes me pretty happy since it gets rid of a lot of prejudices.
It was also encouraging to me that the D and D stuff all had women characters in sensible realistic armor. Things they are a changing. Slowly but changing.
To be clear on WoW racism:
It’s how the narratives of race were setting themselves up *Completely independently* of the real world. It’s pretty trivial to find racism in the culturally appropriated parts, but to my knowledge, it’s kind of novel to examine Horde vs. Alliance as itself following patterns of racial tensions and strife. True, no RL oppression comes from it,b ut there’s a lot of jackassery.
True, I was thinking of what I’m familiar with in passing, sociology. I’m positive there isn’t much there, because my friend was telling me how hard a time he was having finding sources for *his* work on the furry fandom. My girlfriend is considering her master’s thesis for a particular variety of history degree on Trekkie Fandom, additionally, specifically because fandom is underresearched in her field.
@Bill:
No, I’m pretty sure we have to actually murder them to be like Pol Pot, Hitler, and Stalin. Murder them in droves. But good job at letting us know you’re an entitled dude.
I guess the fact that I married a nerd (and am a nerd myself, as evidenced by my multiple Doctor Who references) doesn’t factor into any of this, does it? Me being a castrating, man-hating she-demon feminist harpy and all.
As much as I hate sexism in art, I’ve actually never cared about realistic armor. Realism in general just isn’t a thing to me. I wouldn’t complain if it were realistic and cool, and I’d just be bored by realistic and uncool, but my primary problem is that most armor on women is objectifying, not that it is unrealistic.
I would really love, David, if you are so inclined, to see the sheer number of references by MRAs to a fantasy of female-led genocide against men. It seems to be a trend. I first noticed it right here in comments, but then I’m not out there in the trenches like you are.
MRAs fantasize that the oppressed class is actually their oppressor and is out to kill them. Just like the Nazis did. Haha, see what I did there?
I fuck nerds! I just don’t fuck douchebags. Surprisingly, not all nerds are douchebags. In fact, I was cuddling with a cute and gender egalitarian Magic player just last night.
I’m just saying that if you stopped treating men who can’t get laid easily as subhumans then maybe you wouldn’t have growing numbers of men who think you want them dead.