Say what you will about the dedicated PUAs (Pick-Up Artists) of the world: at least they sometimes actually talk to real human women. The guys in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, I’m not so sure about.
It’s kind of sad, sometimes, to read the plaintive requests for advice on Seddit (as it’s known) from college guys who’ve fixated on some girl in some class of theirs, and want desperately to learn the secret formula to get into her pants. These aren’t guys who’ve mastered the art of “negging” women with clever little mini-insults (a favorite PUA technique); these are guys who haven’t quite grasped that you have to actually talk to a woman in order to ask her out.
Take this query, recently posted there:
My suggestion?
Write “coffee?” on your forehead, and stand in front of her. Point at your forehead if necessary.
So, yeah, I’ve been banned from Seddit.
Look, I feel for the guy. I’ve been that guy.
But just think of it from the point of view of the girl. Some guy you’ve never spoken to, some guy who doesn’t know a thing about you other than you make him feel funny in his pants, approaches you out of the blue and … slips you a note?
But really, the problem there isn’t the note. Well, part of the problem is the note, But the main problem is that college dude has never spoken to her before. As anyone who has watched Seinfeld knows well, “coffee” means “sex.” Going up to a woman you’ve never spoken to before and asking her out is a bit like saying “hi, you make me feel funny in my pants. I would like to put my penis in you. Perhaps we could chat a bit first. Though, clearly, I don’t care what’s in your actual brain, because here I am asking you out based on nothing more than the fact that you cause that aforementioned feeling in my pants.”
Pro-tip for lonely guys: remember that women are actual human beings also.
Now, this poor Sedditor got some good basic advice from the crowd there, basically boiling down to: figure out an excuse to talk to her before class, and see how it goes.
Now, Seddit may be mildly useful in giving this sort of basic advice to the truly hapless. But it doesn’t seem to be very good at getting across the notion that women are human.
Indeed, there was a strikingly similar question posted in Seddit a couple of days ago: a guy who wanted to ask out the only girl in his engineering class. His post, in stark contrast with the note guy, was bristling with PUA acronyms and lingo: the girl was an “HB8” (Hot Babe that he rated an 8 of 10 on the hotness scale); he was on the lookout for IOSs (Indications of Interest) from her, and so on and so on.
But his strategy was strikingly similar to that of the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) with the note: he was going to walk up to her after class and ask her out for dinner. But he was planning to add one more “technique” to his approach: “kino.” In PUA-speak, kino means touch.
So, yeah, that’s what he learned from all his study of advanced PUA-oloogy: just start touching her! Women are eager to jump into bed with guys who come up to them out of the blue and start groping them. (The post itself was deleted after it got linked to in the ShitRedditSays subreddit, so no link.)
Trouble is, this guy is not the only one getting the message that Pick-up artistry is all about invading a woman’s personal space and “escalating” until she literally fights you off or given is. This is, in fact, the basic message of the PUA who calls himself Gunwich – a man who not that long ago (allegedly) shot a woman I the face after she refused his advances.
And, yes, pressuring a woman until she gives in, or up, is one way of getting in her pants. It’s also, you know, rape.
In recent days a number of Sedditers have posted advice that is little more than a how-to of date rape. A number of instances were pointed out in ShitRedditSays, and were deleted by the Seddit moderators. It’s clear this is damage control; a number of regulars on ShitRedditSays have been banned from posting in Seddit – many of whom had actually never posted there in the first place.
Here’s a discussion of one copy-and pasted date rape guide that got deleted before anyone made a screencap.
The Seddit mods say this is “fringe” stuff that doesn’t reflect how most Sedditors think. Then how is it that some of the creepiest comments get dozens of upvotes? Take this Sedditor’s advice on how to get inside a woman’s house (and then her pants) that I managed to screencap before it was deleted:
Now, there is plenty of PUA material that is not rapey. Manipulative, sure. Dopey, absolutely. But not rapey. A good Pick-Up Artist, in theory at least, should be able to tell when a woman is interested and when she isn’t, and move on when she isn’t.
But it’s clear that many Sedditors aren’t learning that whole “if she’s not interested, move on” thing. They’re learning: “if she’s not interested, pressure her and manipulate her, and wear her down. And be sure to touch her. Sorry, “kino escalate.”
They’re not learning empathy. They’re learning stupid human tricks. And, worse, they’re learning to ignore a woman’s “no,” to treat it as what PUAs call LMR – that is, Last Minute Resistance. And that’s pretty much a formula for date rape.
Republicans?
You’re…you’re living the dream, owlslave. That is definitely what is happening here.
@KathleenB
Followed in reply to…”Cause there’s nothing I like more than thrashing the shit out of people who consider themselves intelligent.”
I get, A stand up philosopher video.
Really, you folks could make anyone feel like a genius.
In thread where you first stated your Capital Letter theory, people cited numerous examples of legal documents using standard capitalization.
NWO: It’s actually a bullshit artist video – found it appropriate.
@captainbathrobe
“Actually, I don’t ask that you believe me. I ask that you base your ideas, such as they are, on actual evidence.”
When bankers, banking is considered a conspiracy, I doubt the gang believes in evidence. Next thing ya know, crazy ole me will be spouting some jibberish about the Federal Reserve being a private bank. My conspiritoral nonsense knows no bounds.
Never thought of that actually!
@KathleenB
“I figured that a little comedy was in order – the lulz you’re providing just aren’t all that high a quality.”
Well how about this.
How do you tell who loves you more, your dog or your wife?
Lock them both in the trunk for an hour than see which one is happy to see you when you let them out! Misogyny, I just love it!
“I managed to screencap before it was deleted”
You’re taking an individual’s comments and making it seem mainstream when it was in fact deleted by the moderator. In the post about the Jezzibel chicks talking about the extermination of men in the “Why men rape” article, your defense was that it was deleted so it was not their policy.
I have caught you in your own hypocritical web Manboobz! Which is it Manboobz; does it count because it was said or does it not count because it was deleted?
I have argued that MRA sites should have more moderation. I have noticed that you lack sufficient talent to argue against the most pertinent articles. If you look hard enough you can find a comment from anyone that makes them look like a boob to your readers, but you’ll not find an entire article that does so.
Kirk out
One last comment before I hit the sack. I’d like to hear everyones opinion of what obviously shut Ozzy up. So lets find out who is smarter than a first grader, shall we? The first comment is by Doctress Ju’ulia. Now the second one I’ve regendered. And boy does it sound like manboobz mock worthy material. So here’s the question children…Since the regendered version is misogyny extreme, is the original misandry extreme? G’nite all.
—————————-
“Or, even better, I get hit on by the nastiest, dirtiest, slimiest, most toothless, strung out on heroin guys in the bar. Seriously. Last night I had not one but TWO drunk-ass heroin junkies try to buy me a drink/get my number. They kept trying to touch me and tell me how ‘beautiful’ I am. Ugh. Nice to know that these are, apparently, the highest quality men I can attract. /s”
——————————-
Or, even better, I get hit on by the nastiest, dirtiest, slimiest, most toothless, strung out on crack whores in the bar. Seriously. Last night I had not one but TWO drunk-ass crack whores hit on me to get me to buy them a drink. They kept trying to touch me and tell me how ‘hot’ I am. Ugh. Nice to know that these are, apparently, the highest quality women I can attract. /s
Perhaps you could rip this one a new A-Hole:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/a-lesson-from-history/
@NWOSlave
The regendered version makes you look like a self entitled dick who expects people who wish to interact and (god forbid mate) with you to have to pass a “Non-creeper” test before having the right to speak to you at all.
The original version makes the writer look like … well, the same.
Gender Equality!
I know I posted this a thousand times already, but this time it’s relevant!
It’s hard to see in the photograph, but one of the rings has the Freemason symbol and the other has the Skull and Bones symbol. I’m saving other symbols (like the Eye of Providence) for future pieces. I think I’m going to get a lot of mileage out of the lizard people. They’re fun.
Oh yeah, and NWOslave is an idiot. So what else is new?
shaenon, excellent summary of the Book of Learnin!
Nah, I forgot all about the enormous legal importance of capital letters. And I hadn’t added the Religion section:
Religion
Judaism is the most aggressively evangelical religion on earth. Less than 5% of Jews are ethnically Jewish, while the rest are recruited from the intensive and tireless Jewish recruitment efforts.
Catholics worship the Virgin Mary, which is the worst imaginable heresy because eww girls.
In the story of Jesus saving the adulteress from stoning, the important part isn’t when he says, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”; it’s when he says, “Go, and sin no more.” By this, Jesus meant that Christians should stone sinners. Especially the gays.
By the way, Spear, as a big fan of nutty alien-abduction theories, I love your alien portrait series. It reminds me of Barlowe’s Guide to Extraterrestrials.
Good night, Slavey! Ignorance is a prison you have built for yourself. Only you can set yourself free. Or, you could spend all your time convincing yourself that the real prisoners are those on the outside. It’s your call.
@witman
“@NWOSlave
The regendered version makes you look like a self entitled dick who expects people who wish to interact and (god forbid mate) with you to have to pass a “Non-creeper” test before having the right to speak to you at all.”
You are most definitely correct sir. That’s what I’ve been trying to tell the hive mind of genius that reside here. you can see how well that’s been working out. They defend the original, (one of their own) yet repeatedly mocked virtually identical comments. They lovingly march to the feminist beat of destruction.
So women should give their flirtatious/sexual attention to literally anyone who asks…
… and not be sluts?
Naw, owlslave is no good at comedy. This is comedy:
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2345#comic
I would totally smack a guy on the ass if he did that to me. Hard. 😀
Holly: Again with the logic and reality. NWO really isn’t into logic or reality. They harsh his buzz.
*ears prick up* Did someone say Superdogs???
http://superdogs.com/ca_en/videos
EVOLUTION PROVED!
Also, shaenon, good summary, but you forgot the “flouride shots” – NWOaf manages to be anti-vaccine, anti-fluoridation, and anti-The English Language all at once!
Bagelsan: That, Is. Awesome.
And the “Catholics worship the Virgin Mary!!!!!” thing is not uncommon among your nuttier fundamentalist Christians. But the “OMG Jews are trying to convert everyone!!!!” is a new one to me.
I love Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal. 😀 And he updates basically every day, too.
Do you not get what upvotes mean, dude? Maybe the Jezebel (Learn to fucking spell, you fucking idiot) article was also bad. Is that going to be your defense then? “Hey, we’re assholes, but at least someone on your side sucks!”
Yeaaaaaaaaahhh, we keep getting linked to your best of…s of your bullshit. It’s factually inaccurate. Wrong. Not useful. Stupid. I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve been sent to yet another “Of COURSE Men make more, they work the more dangerous jobs!!!!!!!111oneoneonetwo”, which tells me that not only is your movement willing to reach out for stupid shit to try to attack women, but you’re ignorant about class oppression and the economic climate of the USA. Color me unsurprised.
And fuck, if I had a dollar for every idiotic evopsych claim your moron movement advanced, I’d be able to spend my free time playing Oprah to random people on the street.
Really?
TRIGGER WARNING FOR MASSIVE ASSHATTERY AND RACISM.
http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2011/07/race-in-2050-america-white-hispanics-to.html
END WARNING
That took me about two seconds. To be fair, that guy was linked by one of your idiot brigade trying to convince us that there were reasonable MRAs. Didn’t work well.
You know, I had written a fairly long comment that detailed a number of history fails in the details, but when I got to the end I had to say “Wait, that’s it?”
He didn’t actually establish any parallels between feminism and naziism (Good luck with that one, by the way). Putting aside that I can invoke Godwin’s Law in the first place, that’s not how you make a comparison. You don’t give an explanation of one, then fail to actually establish a solid parallel. Frankly, it’s idiotic in the extreme to think you can compare all of feminism to any one political party, because feminism takes on a number of different goals in different places, and even within a region it will have its own tenor.
But, your movement is full of shallow, ahistorical and areality ‘thinkers’ who couldn’t write their way out of a cardboard box. Even your father’s rights movements fail to account for statistical realities of custody fights, and they’re the closest you idiots come to scholarship, to accuracy.
That wasn’t one of your ‘pertinent articles’, was it? Because that was laughable. Even *if* we existed in a bizarro universe where your conclusions were correct it would have gotten you laughed out of any history class. I don’t mean just the college level courses, that’s sub-eight-grader level analysis and writing (The grammar itself seems workable, but again, there’s no argument that actually supports the thesis). If that was yours, you should apologize to your professors for embarrassing them with a shitty article. And again, it would require a bizarro universe to draw any meaningful comparison.
And the “Catholics worship the Virgin Mary!!!!!” thing is not uncommon among your nuttier fundamentalist Christians.
Having grown up Catholic in a Protestant area, I am very familiar with this line of bigotry. What interests me is that Know-Nothings almost always focus on the BVM, ignoring all the other awesome saints we worship.
My favorite is Saint Brigid, patroness of Ireland, because she had the power to turn water into beer.