Say what you will about the dedicated PUAs (Pick-Up Artists) of the world: at least they sometimes actually talk to real human women. The guys in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, I’m not so sure about.
It’s kind of sad, sometimes, to read the plaintive requests for advice on Seddit (as it’s known) from college guys who’ve fixated on some girl in some class of theirs, and want desperately to learn the secret formula to get into her pants. These aren’t guys who’ve mastered the art of “negging” women with clever little mini-insults (a favorite PUA technique); these are guys who haven’t quite grasped that you have to actually talk to a woman in order to ask her out.
Take this query, recently posted there:
My suggestion?
Write “coffee?” on your forehead, and stand in front of her. Point at your forehead if necessary.
So, yeah, I’ve been banned from Seddit.
Look, I feel for the guy. I’ve been that guy.
But just think of it from the point of view of the girl. Some guy you’ve never spoken to, some guy who doesn’t know a thing about you other than you make him feel funny in his pants, approaches you out of the blue and … slips you a note?
But really, the problem there isn’t the note. Well, part of the problem is the note, But the main problem is that college dude has never spoken to her before. As anyone who has watched Seinfeld knows well, “coffee” means “sex.” Going up to a woman you’ve never spoken to before and asking her out is a bit like saying “hi, you make me feel funny in my pants. I would like to put my penis in you. Perhaps we could chat a bit first. Though, clearly, I don’t care what’s in your actual brain, because here I am asking you out based on nothing more than the fact that you cause that aforementioned feeling in my pants.”
Pro-tip for lonely guys: remember that women are actual human beings also.
Now, this poor Sedditor got some good basic advice from the crowd there, basically boiling down to: figure out an excuse to talk to her before class, and see how it goes.
Now, Seddit may be mildly useful in giving this sort of basic advice to the truly hapless. But it doesn’t seem to be very good at getting across the notion that women are human.
Indeed, there was a strikingly similar question posted in Seddit a couple of days ago: a guy who wanted to ask out the only girl in his engineering class. His post, in stark contrast with the note guy, was bristling with PUA acronyms and lingo: the girl was an “HB8” (Hot Babe that he rated an 8 of 10 on the hotness scale); he was on the lookout for IOSs (Indications of Interest) from her, and so on and so on.
But his strategy was strikingly similar to that of the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) with the note: he was going to walk up to her after class and ask her out for dinner. But he was planning to add one more “technique” to his approach: “kino.” In PUA-speak, kino means touch.
So, yeah, that’s what he learned from all his study of advanced PUA-oloogy: just start touching her! Women are eager to jump into bed with guys who come up to them out of the blue and start groping them. (The post itself was deleted after it got linked to in the ShitRedditSays subreddit, so no link.)
Trouble is, this guy is not the only one getting the message that Pick-up artistry is all about invading a woman’s personal space and “escalating” until she literally fights you off or given is. This is, in fact, the basic message of the PUA who calls himself Gunwich – a man who not that long ago (allegedly) shot a woman I the face after she refused his advances.
And, yes, pressuring a woman until she gives in, or up, is one way of getting in her pants. It’s also, you know, rape.
In recent days a number of Sedditers have posted advice that is little more than a how-to of date rape. A number of instances were pointed out in ShitRedditSays, and were deleted by the Seddit moderators. It’s clear this is damage control; a number of regulars on ShitRedditSays have been banned from posting in Seddit – many of whom had actually never posted there in the first place.
Here’s a discussion of one copy-and pasted date rape guide that got deleted before anyone made a screencap.
The Seddit mods say this is “fringe” stuff that doesn’t reflect how most Sedditors think. Then how is it that some of the creepiest comments get dozens of upvotes? Take this Sedditor’s advice on how to get inside a woman’s house (and then her pants) that I managed to screencap before it was deleted:
Now, there is plenty of PUA material that is not rapey. Manipulative, sure. Dopey, absolutely. But not rapey. A good Pick-Up Artist, in theory at least, should be able to tell when a woman is interested and when she isn’t, and move on when she isn’t.
But it’s clear that many Sedditors aren’t learning that whole “if she’s not interested, move on” thing. They’re learning: “if she’s not interested, pressure her and manipulate her, and wear her down. And be sure to touch her. Sorry, “kino escalate.”
They’re not learning empathy. They’re learning stupid human tricks. And, worse, they’re learning to ignore a woman’s “no,” to treat it as what PUAs call LMR – that is, Last Minute Resistance. And that’s pretty much a formula for date rape.
NWOSlave, KathleenB was talking about the Society for Creative Anachronism. It’s a group whose members meet to play a game where they pretend it’s the Middle Ages and they’re knights and stuff. In that game, they call themselves “King,” “Queen,” “Baron,” etc. She’s a member of that group. When she mentions this, and you go off blathering about how the Crown of England is really super-secretly controlled by the bankers (Jews), without having anything to do with her original topic, it makes you look stupid.
This is why people here say you’re stupid, it’s that you have actively prevented yourself from learning anything that doesn’t touch on your conspiracy theory bullshit. And even then, you don’t know very much—I imagine a really bright conspiracy theorist, someone at the very top of his/her game, would know that the Rothschilds own vineyards, because they’d want to know everything the Rothschilds were up to. Even at conspiracy mongering, you fail.
NWO, if we’re not enough of a challenge, why don’t you go find another group more to your liking? I’m sure there’s a group of feminist hating, conspiracy touting, sovereign citizen fuckwits who love elephants out there somewhere!
I’m alone with my kids this weekend. Two examples is all I can do.
VoiP: We like to think that we recreate the ‘good parts’ of the middle ages – minus the wars, pogroms, non-bathing, plague, etc. But yeah, you’ve mostly got it.
We like to think that we recreate the ‘good parts’ of the middle ages – minus the wars, pogroms, non-bathing, plague, etc. But yeah, you’ve mostly got it.
I just can’t get over the fact that this is yet another thing he’s just laughably, completely wrong about. I’m still half-certain he’s a Poe (how would someone of the age/social group he presents himself as know anything about the “Honey Badger” meme?)
But if he’s real,
NWOSlave, to reiterate: this game is fake. It’s make-believe. Not real. KathleenB has nothing to do with England and its secret banker (JEW) overlords.
VoiP: eh, my grandma was a Brit. Naturalized citizen, of course, for near sixty years, but a Brit nonetheless. Right down to the boiling the roast before baking. But her Yorkshire pudding… to die for.
For antibiotics and anesthetic I give thanks ever day that I live in the modern world.
I don’t even know about the honey badger meme. And I consider myself reasonably familiar with all internet traditions.
@Captain Bathrobe
I know when you speak, or in this case type, you probably believe you know what you’re talking about. Oddly enough, your “opinion” doesn’t translate into fact. Just because “you,” Captain Bathrobe say, “X” is true and “Y” isn’t. Doesn’t really mean anything to me. You’d have to be pretty damn gullible to believe someone if they said, “women were always oppressed.” And of course when you read history you clearly see any “oppression” women faced, men faced a much harshed existance. So of course I would say how could women as a whole be oppressed if men as a whole faced even worse.
You of course couldn’t resist using the old “conspiracy” crap. When I say the UN unfailingly supports feminism and anyone can go to the UN site and see it’s true, guess what? It’s a fact. You seem to have difficulty distinguishing fact from conspiracy. Is your credit card all CAPS, how about your deed to your house, drivers license? Can you change these to lower case letters? If not, why? You didn’t bother to find out, yet you speak as if your an authority. You’re not, therefore, you might as well have farted and written that down. It has the same meaning.
cos he’s already been banned from the other groups. We’re the only friends he has left!!!
You and me both. I had a medieval history teacher say toward the end of class, “I’m sure you’ve all wished at some point that you had lived in the Middle Ages.” I laughed. Loudly. I’m rather attached to bathing, and not killing Jews, not being thrown into a pond or set on fire for being a heretic, missing out on fun plagues, and dentistry.
Excuse me while I go bang my head into a wall repeatedly.
@VoiP
“This is why people here say you’re stupid, it’s that you have actively prevented yourself from learning anything that doesn’t touch on your conspiracy theory bullshit. ”
Well please for give my stupidity in not knowing which “game” you were referring to. I’ll brush up on my middle age gamesmanship immediately. Those bankers running banks conspiracies always get me in hot water. What’ll I come up with next?
And of course when you read history
HOLY SHITBALLS
NWO: I think VoiP’s referring to the SCA as a game – not quite accurate, but close enough for government work. And you still need to do some fucking research, because info on the SCA is piss easy to find online.
We’re talking passed each other NWO. Arguing with you is like playing chess with someone who thinks he’s playing Chutes and Ladders.
Point to the Captain!
@KathleenB
“NWO, if we’re not enough of a challenge, why don’t you go find another group more to your liking? I’m sure there’s a group of feminist hating, conspiracy touting, sovereign citizen fuckwits who love elephants out there somewhere!”
Cause there’s nothing I like more than thrashing the shit out of people who consider themselves intelligent.
Actually, the offer letter last time I bought a house, which is a legally binding contract, had my name using standard capitalization. People cited innumerable examples proving you wrong, NWO.
LOL forever. And some bonus Bea Arthur.
@KathleenB
So in response to my question, “Is your credit card all CAPS, how about your deed to your house, drivers license?” You give me Mel Brooks and the Ten Commandments.
It’s like shootin fish in a barrel. According to feminism, “a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.” Let the gender war begin! Woohoo!
@captainbathrobe
“People cited innumerable examples proving you wrong, NWO.”
Well if you consider…lizards, but why do you hate elephants, conspiracy, grammar, you’re a liar, insults and flounce, as citing examples. You are correct, other than that, not so much.
Actually, I don’t ask that you believe me. I ask that you base your ideas, such as they are, on actual evidence.
My cats are more intelligent that you’ve shown yourself to be, NWO. And since you’re talking out your ass, I figured that a little comedy was in order – the lulz you’re providing just aren’t all that high a quality.