Say what you will about the dedicated PUAs (Pick-Up Artists) of the world: at least they sometimes actually talk to real human women. The guys in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, I’m not so sure about.
It’s kind of sad, sometimes, to read the plaintive requests for advice on Seddit (as it’s known) from college guys who’ve fixated on some girl in some class of theirs, and want desperately to learn the secret formula to get into her pants. These aren’t guys who’ve mastered the art of “negging” women with clever little mini-insults (a favorite PUA technique); these are guys who haven’t quite grasped that you have to actually talk to a woman in order to ask her out.
Take this query, recently posted there:
My suggestion?
Write “coffee?” on your forehead, and stand in front of her. Point at your forehead if necessary.
So, yeah, I’ve been banned from Seddit.
Look, I feel for the guy. I’ve been that guy.
But just think of it from the point of view of the girl. Some guy you’ve never spoken to, some guy who doesn’t know a thing about you other than you make him feel funny in his pants, approaches you out of the blue and … slips you a note?
But really, the problem there isn’t the note. Well, part of the problem is the note, But the main problem is that college dude has never spoken to her before. As anyone who has watched Seinfeld knows well, “coffee” means “sex.” Going up to a woman you’ve never spoken to before and asking her out is a bit like saying “hi, you make me feel funny in my pants. I would like to put my penis in you. Perhaps we could chat a bit first. Though, clearly, I don’t care what’s in your actual brain, because here I am asking you out based on nothing more than the fact that you cause that aforementioned feeling in my pants.”
Pro-tip for lonely guys: remember that women are actual human beings also.
Now, this poor Sedditor got some good basic advice from the crowd there, basically boiling down to: figure out an excuse to talk to her before class, and see how it goes.
Now, Seddit may be mildly useful in giving this sort of basic advice to the truly hapless. But it doesn’t seem to be very good at getting across the notion that women are human.
Indeed, there was a strikingly similar question posted in Seddit a couple of days ago: a guy who wanted to ask out the only girl in his engineering class. His post, in stark contrast with the note guy, was bristling with PUA acronyms and lingo: the girl was an “HB8” (Hot Babe that he rated an 8 of 10 on the hotness scale); he was on the lookout for IOSs (Indications of Interest) from her, and so on and so on.
But his strategy was strikingly similar to that of the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) with the note: he was going to walk up to her after class and ask her out for dinner. But he was planning to add one more “technique” to his approach: “kino.” In PUA-speak, kino means touch.
So, yeah, that’s what he learned from all his study of advanced PUA-oloogy: just start touching her! Women are eager to jump into bed with guys who come up to them out of the blue and start groping them. (The post itself was deleted after it got linked to in the ShitRedditSays subreddit, so no link.)
Trouble is, this guy is not the only one getting the message that Pick-up artistry is all about invading a woman’s personal space and “escalating” until she literally fights you off or given is. This is, in fact, the basic message of the PUA who calls himself Gunwich – a man who not that long ago (allegedly) shot a woman I the face after she refused his advances.
And, yes, pressuring a woman until she gives in, or up, is one way of getting in her pants. It’s also, you know, rape.
In recent days a number of Sedditers have posted advice that is little more than a how-to of date rape. A number of instances were pointed out in ShitRedditSays, and were deleted by the Seddit moderators. It’s clear this is damage control; a number of regulars on ShitRedditSays have been banned from posting in Seddit – many of whom had actually never posted there in the first place.
Here’s a discussion of one copy-and pasted date rape guide that got deleted before anyone made a screencap.
The Seddit mods say this is “fringe” stuff that doesn’t reflect how most Sedditors think. Then how is it that some of the creepiest comments get dozens of upvotes? Take this Sedditor’s advice on how to get inside a woman’s house (and then her pants) that I managed to screencap before it was deleted:
Now, there is plenty of PUA material that is not rapey. Manipulative, sure. Dopey, absolutely. But not rapey. A good Pick-Up Artist, in theory at least, should be able to tell when a woman is interested and when she isn’t, and move on when she isn’t.
But it’s clear that many Sedditors aren’t learning that whole “if she’s not interested, move on” thing. They’re learning: “if she’s not interested, pressure her and manipulate her, and wear her down. And be sure to touch her. Sorry, “kino escalate.”
They’re not learning empathy. They’re learning stupid human tricks. And, worse, they’re learning to ignore a woman’s “no,” to treat it as what PUAs call LMR – that is, Last Minute Resistance. And that’s pretty much a formula for date rape.
OMG he believes in astrology too. I give up.
@kristinmh: yes, he’s a Scorpio, haven’t you heard?
Don’t you just love it when the MRAs come here and try to use us as props in their Grand Journey of Self-Discovery?
Samuel, your blog is very interesting, will your friend Laura be posting here soon?
Sam, when it comes to spiritual practice, have you considered a vow of silence?
Catlike eyes also featured in Marie Nizet’s Le Capitaine Vampire. Boris Liatoukine had yellow eyes (in fact, topaz, just like Edward Cullen’s) with vertical catlike pupils. The text later contradicts itself by saying he had two pupils in each eye. I’ve figured out a way to have both (that’s my next drawing in my vampire series, by the way). Ariadne Brunnel, from The Vampire Maid by Hume Nisbet, has entirely black irises.
In stories where the eyes lack inhuman features, their eyes are still vividly described in the text. Lord Ruthven’s, from John Polidori’s The Vampyre: A Tale, and Azzo von Klatka, from the anonymously published The Mysterious Stranger, have cold, grey eyes. Lord Vardalek from A True Story of a Vampire by Count Eric Stenbock, has green eyes, often hidden by heavy eyelids. Carmilla/Millarca/Mircalla, from J. Sherridan LeFanu’s Carmilla, has lovely brown eyes.
The eyes are often connected with hypnotic powers, such as Varney’s and Liatoukine’s. As mentioned, the peculiar features often emerge when the vampire is enraged or overtaken with bloodlust. Dracula’s eyes are blue most of the time; they glow red in a few select scenes in the novel.
This is from the research I’ve done for my series of drawings, and it’s only covered the first century of vampire fiction (and I still have much more to read). However, from my perusal of pop-culture over the years, the focus on eyes in vampire stories has continued. The vampires on Buffy the Vampire Slayer have yellow eyes when they put on their “game-face”. The eyes of the vampires in Twilight give away their allegiance, with vampires that feed on human blood having red eyes and the vampires that feed on animal blood having “liquid topaz” eyes.
@Spearhafoc: Moar about vampires (sparkly, phosphorescent, etc.) would be wonderful.
I taught an advanced creative writing class last spring with a focus on vampires.
We had SO MUCH FUN.
There was the one potential war between the Twi-lovers and the Twi-haters, but I managed to head it off at the last minute by exercising teacherly woo!
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I think I understand.
Future Samuel, you’re talking about a fetish, right? Like, you get off by thinking about all your manly, manly sperm in your manly, manly balls?
I mean, it doesn’t do anything for me, but a person can develop a fetish about anything, I guess.
@Hippodameia: My favorite part is that the neophyte on the first month steps of the Grand Tour of Self Discovery who insist they are Just Learning are determined to lecture us all!
I will be sending you the stuff we talked about–this last week has just been a bear of a first week of classes.
As far as werewolves go, I don’t know much about them. There wasn’t any 19th century fiction that dealt with them, other than stories that conflated them with vampires (Dracula is referred to as a werewolf at one point early in the novel, and as a man who can turn into a wolf, he technically is). Most of the “mythology” we know about werewolves comes entirely from the movie The Wolf Man, including the business about the silver bullet.
I haven’t done anything more than a cursory glance at actual werewolf folklore, but I seem to recall one legend that said that werewolves’ wolf-forms retained their human eyes.
In True Blood, the werewolves’ eyes glow. But you already knew that.
Yeah, Spearhafoc, that was pretty cool.
OK, I can’t help it, I’m going line by line:
Why would women be a threat to your focus? Your focus on what? As for threatening your celibacy, just tell them about your sperm theory. They will instantly agree that they should not have sex with you, because if they did they’d be robbed of your sparkling eyes and manly man man-ness!
So women’s bodies are so powerful that they must be avoided, but you’re being nice and just GYOW instead of forcing us all to wear burkas? What a prince! No wonder you think you deserve a cookie.
I am so tired with people dissing pitbulls. They can be lovely dogs, though they need a lot of training. Sammy, you’re not feral. You are a socialized (I assume) human being, raised in society to interact with other humans. Human socialization is obviously imperfect, of course, but I have no doubt that you can successfully restrain yourself from committing violent crimes against your fellow creatures. If this is especially hard for you, seek professional help.
[citation needed] Compared to what? Do all men have the same sex drive, or do some have more, some have less, some have none at all, and all vary over time and circumstance?
Actually, you very likely are not. Google “precession of the equinox”. All the star signs are off one.
[citation needed]
I can’t argue with that. If you feel celibacy is what you need right now, by all means go for it, though I don’t see how it can help your career, unless you were in the habit of hooking up with your coworkers. Just don’t make sperm woo claims unless you can back them up.
It’s cruel to keep dogs in cages! Crate them overnight, sure, but pitbulls need lots of exercise and affection. Keeping a pitbull in a cage is more likely to turn it into an angry, hurt, confused dog that might kill, instead of a happy family pet.
I know I suggested DKM get a dog instead of trying to marry a dog-like woman, but jeez! Do a little research on animal care before you get one.
Glad it makes you happy, but once again, not proof of Sperm Magic.
True.
and constanly being consumed with thoughts of sex and getting laid and spending hours on dating sites
Well, sexual thoughts are largely involuntary; whenever I’ve gone through a dry spell I’ve usually thought about sex more rather than less, but YMMV. And of course, if you’re not seeking dates you don’t spend time on dating sites…
Poor choice of words there, my friend. Hunting for women? Yeesh.
[citation needed]
Bully for you.
That is more debatable.
But if you did find the right 2 people, how would you ever retain your sperm? Did you even think of that, huh? Huh?
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Not-Ejaculating-is-Very-Dangerous-to-Men-039-s-Health-43586.shtml
Nothing too conclusive out there (and a lot more hits on how long sperm can survive inside women’s bodes), but this blog talks about a study that might show that more frequent ejaculation could correlate with lower risk for prostrate cancer (note all the qualifications I am making here). I’m humanities trained, so cannot evaluate medical research very well, but this one study implies that there’s nothing inherently more healthful about not ejaculating (and keep in mind, that there are lots of ways to ejaculate that don’t involve women).
As usual, people, meaning our mra dudez, seem to be all or nothing–and not to think about oh you know moderation.
@Pecunium
Hey, I just got back and I thought I heard the clipitty-clop of a fine white steed coming to the rescue.
Anyway, lets try and keep my conspiracies straight, shall we?
First off, I believe the UN is funding international feminism. And that’s only because they are, ya know, I-VAWA and such. Kooky I know.
Second, I think the Rothchilds own the Federal Reserve. I also believe the Federal Reserve is an independent bank. And, once again, that’s only because the Rothchilds do own it, and it is an independent bank. Where does the rabbit hole end in my conspiritoral world?
Third, since I’m only home rarely, I do my bills when I am and kooky ole me, I’ve noticed every single bill or State dealing is always CAPS. I guess that’s so they can see it easier, no significance at all. Anyone here get their credit card bills, State documents, drivers license changed to lower case yet. I’d love to see an example from you smart folks.
Fourth, my belief in what the laws are is because there kinda written down. Obviously I haven’t been able to study the over 60 million laws governing my actions so please forgive me for any oversight.
Fifth, my belief in how men and women act might not be as progressive as the interchangable genders preached by the almighty feminist gospel. I realy on history, although my history seems to be defunked as well. Hell, I don’t even view history in terms of female oppression. Which only goes to show how backward I am.
Ya’ll have a good night. das vedanya, adios and hasta la vista!
Samuel: You are not pit bull, rabid or not. Just… don’t, okay? I’ve seen what a fight trained pit bull can do to a person. I’ve seen the scars, the xrays, the months of rehab and constant pain. I will personally guarantee that your lust will not cause the kind of damage that those jaws can do. So just STFU while you’re ahead already.
NWO: You are a nincompoop. I can’t even call you ignorant – ignorance can be fixed. You’re just stupid.
@kristinmh: *loud applause* Excellent rebuttals.
And you know, having worked in animal rescue the past fifteen years or so, I am so tired of manly balled manly men projecting all this crap on “pit bulls” (which is not even an actual breed! a number of breeds are sometimes called this), and all the abuse which comes in the wake of those projections–the various bull dogs and bull terriers I’ve met are all lovely dogs who climb in my lap and lick my ears and give me smoochies. But the dickbiscuits who buy into the media stereotypes and abuse the animals to make them mean should be locked up, and yeah, I’ll say it, “tutored.”
Bee: all this talk about what’s-is’name’s sperm and I start remembering that Woody Allen movie (“All you ever needed to know about sex?”) with the sperm anxiously talking as they go down the long white hallway…..and then I start wondering if he gives them their own little nicknames…..
“My favorite part is that the neophyte on the first month steps of the Grand Tour of Self Discovery who insist they are Just Learning are determined to lecture us all!”
Yeah! He’s just GOT to lecture us because otherwise we won’t appreciate his brilliant conclusion that women can kind of actually be people. No-one’s ever thought that before, or worked it out in such detail and with such care. Oy.
Please don’t worry about the stuff we talked about – you’ll get to it when you get to it. The first week of classes is hell for everyone. XD
Also: My marriage license (a FUCKING STATE DOCUMENT) has normal capitalization. Kinda shoots your stupid-assed theory down, eh?
After all the times we’ve made fun of you for this very misspelling, you go and do it again? What is wrong with you? Are you completely incapable of learning?
Anyway, NWOslave, what’s your favourite vampire story/movie?
@Hippodameia: Snickers! Not to mention gifting us with his priceless claim about Betty Friedan, “radical” feminist!
It’s had been…something. I was telling my partner that while I remember worse first weeks, I think that the mess we’ve had to deal with the past two months had made this somehow…seem not as bad, though I was swamped.
BUT the weather is cooling down! The highs this week will only be in the 80s, and the lows in the 60s, and I can walk around feeling like a human being instead of a big blobby blob of sweat.
Kristinmh good point
Voip said to NWOYou hate women for…I don’t know, existing and shit, with their bodies and not having sex with men, but as soon as they do you believe they’re literally unethical. There is no way for women to win here. Your beliefs suck. You suck for holding them.
Yes there is a part of me that feels threatened by women. Just that they exist and have the power to control me sexually. I resist it. I feel threatened by half the population. It sounds crazy but we’re all a little bit nuts
Honestly Kristin if I admited I feel threatened by women do women women feel threatened by a celibate man? A man who chooses to go his own way>be honest
However I feel
Obviously, slaveman, the answer is to fill out all your credit card applications and sign every credit card receipt in all lower case. Then, when the credit card companies come to you and demand payment, laugh in their face and tell them that you’re too smart for them!
There’s a bull terrier across the street named Princess, and she is really the sweetest dog I’ve ever met. She’s so happy to see everyone, and so full of joy and energy- I don’t see how her humans keep up with her! I saw her outside last winter, jumping around, tail wagging, play-bowing her human’s snow shovel. So. Damned. Cute!
And then there’s one who lives in a shelter in a backyard down the street – never walked, never out in the yard, who once tried to knock the damn thing down to get at our cat as we were walking her through the alley. The same people owned the dog that attacked my grandma – I’m convinced that they were both fight trained.