Say what you will about the dedicated PUAs (Pick-Up Artists) of the world: at least they sometimes actually talk to real human women. The guys in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, I’m not so sure about.
It’s kind of sad, sometimes, to read the plaintive requests for advice on Seddit (as it’s known) from college guys who’ve fixated on some girl in some class of theirs, and want desperately to learn the secret formula to get into her pants. These aren’t guys who’ve mastered the art of “negging” women with clever little mini-insults (a favorite PUA technique); these are guys who haven’t quite grasped that you have to actually talk to a woman in order to ask her out.
Take this query, recently posted there:
My suggestion?
Write “coffee?” on your forehead, and stand in front of her. Point at your forehead if necessary.
So, yeah, I’ve been banned from Seddit.
Look, I feel for the guy. I’ve been that guy.
But just think of it from the point of view of the girl. Some guy you’ve never spoken to, some guy who doesn’t know a thing about you other than you make him feel funny in his pants, approaches you out of the blue and … slips you a note?
But really, the problem there isn’t the note. Well, part of the problem is the note, But the main problem is that college dude has never spoken to her before. As anyone who has watched Seinfeld knows well, “coffee” means “sex.” Going up to a woman you’ve never spoken to before and asking her out is a bit like saying “hi, you make me feel funny in my pants. I would like to put my penis in you. Perhaps we could chat a bit first. Though, clearly, I don’t care what’s in your actual brain, because here I am asking you out based on nothing more than the fact that you cause that aforementioned feeling in my pants.”
Pro-tip for lonely guys: remember that women are actual human beings also.
Now, this poor Sedditor got some good basic advice from the crowd there, basically boiling down to: figure out an excuse to talk to her before class, and see how it goes.
Now, Seddit may be mildly useful in giving this sort of basic advice to the truly hapless. But it doesn’t seem to be very good at getting across the notion that women are human.
Indeed, there was a strikingly similar question posted in Seddit a couple of days ago: a guy who wanted to ask out the only girl in his engineering class. His post, in stark contrast with the note guy, was bristling with PUA acronyms and lingo: the girl was an “HB8” (Hot Babe that he rated an 8 of 10 on the hotness scale); he was on the lookout for IOSs (Indications of Interest) from her, and so on and so on.
But his strategy was strikingly similar to that of the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) with the note: he was going to walk up to her after class and ask her out for dinner. But he was planning to add one more “technique” to his approach: “kino.” In PUA-speak, kino means touch.
So, yeah, that’s what he learned from all his study of advanced PUA-oloogy: just start touching her! Women are eager to jump into bed with guys who come up to them out of the blue and start groping them. (The post itself was deleted after it got linked to in the ShitRedditSays subreddit, so no link.)
Trouble is, this guy is not the only one getting the message that Pick-up artistry is all about invading a woman’s personal space and “escalating” until she literally fights you off or given is. This is, in fact, the basic message of the PUA who calls himself Gunwich – a man who not that long ago (allegedly) shot a woman I the face after she refused his advances.
And, yes, pressuring a woman until she gives in, or up, is one way of getting in her pants. It’s also, you know, rape.
In recent days a number of Sedditers have posted advice that is little more than a how-to of date rape. A number of instances were pointed out in ShitRedditSays, and were deleted by the Seddit moderators. It’s clear this is damage control; a number of regulars on ShitRedditSays have been banned from posting in Seddit – many of whom had actually never posted there in the first place.
Here’s a discussion of one copy-and pasted date rape guide that got deleted before anyone made a screencap.
The Seddit mods say this is “fringe” stuff that doesn’t reflect how most Sedditors think. Then how is it that some of the creepiest comments get dozens of upvotes? Take this Sedditor’s advice on how to get inside a woman’s house (and then her pants) that I managed to screencap before it was deleted:
Now, there is plenty of PUA material that is not rapey. Manipulative, sure. Dopey, absolutely. But not rapey. A good Pick-Up Artist, in theory at least, should be able to tell when a woman is interested and when she isn’t, and move on when she isn’t.
But it’s clear that many Sedditors aren’t learning that whole “if she’s not interested, move on” thing. They’re learning: “if she’s not interested, pressure her and manipulate her, and wear her down. And be sure to touch her. Sorry, “kino escalate.”
They’re not learning empathy. They’re learning stupid human tricks. And, worse, they’re learning to ignore a woman’s “no,” to treat it as what PUAs call LMR – that is, Last Minute Resistance. And that’s pretty much a formula for date rape.
Samuel: When you flounce out, vowing never to darken our door again, you have to not darken our door again for it to actually count, this is called ‘sticking the landing.’ If you come back, you didn’t stick the landing and suffer mandatory deductions. Don’t you ever watch gymnastics? (I’d think, judging from your avatar, that you’d enjoy the men’s part… big, beefy dudes showing off their muscles…)
Talacaris said My comment was delayed in mod for a while, so here it is again on benefits of celibacy
A man is expected to have lots of heterosexual sex and always to be on the chase for it. If he’s not, he’s not a “real man”, and considered less masculine. This pressure can make sex a lot less pleasurable.
That is why (temporary) celibacy can be so liberating for a man. Then you have the time to sort out inner desire from outside pressure, feel secure in your masculity without the need
to be validated by sex and know that when you have sex, it is because you really want it, which surely is more pleasurably.
If you read my above post celibacy for a guy makes him feel sex. All that testosterone that energy its like radiant its like a glow in the eyes of a celibate man. It’s awesome.Theres life in a celibate man
None of this is a citation to a study on the physical effects of ‘sex addiction’. Telling me that there’s rehab for it doesn’t actually mean there’s a scientific basis for that rehab. It means there’s rehab for it. It’s possible there’s a groundwork for their stuff, but given the fact that psychological practitioners have a surprisingly shitty track record for actually supporting their stuff with science, it doesn’t by any stretch guarantee it.
“Seriously I am asking just a few person here to please please give me your feedback on this site http://www.slaafws.org/”
No, hon, that’s not how it works. I’ll repeat this for emphasis:
“I am certainly not going to tell some dickbiscuit on the internet who has suddenly decided omg rape is horrible and erect penis penetrating woman is horrible (as if rape is limited to that, which it isn’t), and OMG what do YOU WIMMINZ think anything except beyond STFU and go spend some time reading all the feminist works on rape and rape culture and stop perpetrating the patriarchal heart that underlies rape culture which is the male assumption that you have a right to demand anything from women, from our bodies to our attention to our sympathies.”
Do what Ithilana said – STFU, go educate yourself, and stop thinking you’re entitled to our attention.
Samuel, my feedback on that site is that I am not your personal website reviewer.
Kathleen said amuel: When you flounce out, vowing never to darken our door again, you have to not darken our door again for it to actually count, this is called ‘sticking the landing.’ If you come back, you didn’t stick the landing and suffer mandatory deductions. Don’t you ever watch gymnastics? (I’d think, judging from your avatar, that you’d enjoy the men’s part… big, beefy dudes showing off their muscles…)
LOL you crack me up Kathleen. It’s actually Labor day here in The USA and I am off tomorrow so I gave “down time” to blog on man boobz that is why i am here. I’m actually having a blast blogging here. It is fun in a way although aggravating as well. But It is a Lazy sunday night off from work and here blogging.
are we watching a computer achieve consciousness?
No, I don’t think consciousness has much to do with this . . .
Holly I am not referring to my blog. In fact out of respect for David I should not even discuss my blog here but it is good to network with people who like to discuss he sociology of sex and gender.The site I linked above has to do with sexual addiction. One poster said there is no such thing. I say yes inasmuch as Tiger Woods went away bto sex addiction rehab.
I need your feedback on this site http://www.slaafws.org/
Please just give me your feedback. I will do the same for you. This way we can have a more mature debate on issues affecting us all
Samuel 2112: Give me ONE good reason why any of us should give of our time and energy to give you feedback on a blog you recently started (with or without Feminist Blogger)?
If you’re using this blog to post about feminism at the same dismal level that you’ve shown in this discussion, then I have too much respect for my blood pressure to go look at it.
Where in this blog’s mission statement do you see the statement that “our mission is to help clueless men who are too fucking lazy to do their own work.” You want to learn more about feminism–fine. Go read and think and stop thinking you get to lecture other people on the topic when you have not a single clue.
And where did you get the idea that feminists have to be “compassionate” toward men? That’s what TEH WIMMINZ are supposed to do for TEH MENZ in the kyriarchy. Feminists, remember are evil lesbian penis shrinking and collecting witches who kill men for fun. And hang around with cats. Where in that role do you see “compassion” required? (Except for the cats of course! *snuggles down with six adorable kitty cats*
Besides,you want expert consultation and critique, you pay for it. And that may involve being willing to do the same for other people–i.e. sharing critiques and commentary.
Blesses Goddess, I could get more sense out of CleverBot. And CleverBot doesn’t keep spamming/shilling some blog – or demand comments.
“I need your feedback on this site http://www.slaafws.org/
Please just give me your feedback. I will do the same for you. This way we can have a more mature debate on issues affecting us all”
Once again, you aren’t entitled to our feedback. You aren’t entitled to our attention at all. And stomping your little trolly feet will get you nowhere.
Now have another all-caps tantrum and then go. Stick the dismount this time.
Rutee stated None of this is a citation to a study on the physical effects of ‘sex addiction’. Telling me that there’s rehab for it doesn’t actually mean there’s a scientific basis for that rehab. It means there’s rehab for it. It’s possible there’s a groundwork for their stuff, but given the fact that psychological practitioners have a surprisingly shitty track record for actually supporting their stuff with science, it doesn’t by any stretch guarantee it.
Rutee I am no Dr. Ruth Westheimer but I do believe sex addiction is real just like alcoholism. I mean there are several 12 step groups dealing with this. Sex and Love addicts Anonymous, Sexaholics anonymous Sexual Recovery anonymous,
Studies have shown that many men are addicted to porn. Some women are addicted to romance novels bodice rippers/
Sex and Love addicts Anonymous is a 12 step program for sexual and relationship addiction like AA id for alcohol.. The have thousands of members worldwide. This has to be real.
Oh dear, this is… special..
http://amangoinghisownway2112.wordpress.com/
If I had been drinking something, I’d be buying a new keyboard.
Sex is rape, men who have any sex at all are lust monsters, and you women should be grateful there’s a man here to tell you how women think–that’s our Samuel.
I have never seen someone award themselves so many Congressional Medals Of Super Awesomeness because they managed to carry on a brief conversation with another person.
“Rutee I am no Dr. Ruth Westheimer but I do believe sex addiction is real just like alcoholism.”
You also believe that not masturbating makes you glow.
“I have never seen someone award themselves so many Congressional Medals Of Super Awesomeness because they managed to carry on a brief conversation with another person.”
I know – it’s like he can’t tie his shoes unless there’s applause.
Samuel from the future: What happens when women are celibate? Is there a glow in their eyes? Are they radiant? Is there life in them? What are they retaining? Or do women glow more when they make contact with radiant-making semen?
“How do women really feel about gay men?”
About the same as I would towards any person O.o
Protip Samuel: just because there is a book about sex addiction, does not make it ‘real’–there are academic experts who disagree with the “myth of sex addiction.”
30 seconds of googling led me here (and wow, has Dr. Klein got you sussed out to the nth degree, you creepy little spiritualist non-masturbator glowy-eyed noob):
The myth of sex addiction
Oh, and if you use a bit of basic html you can more easily distinguish between what you are quoting and what you are saying, and it would make more sense to link back to the comment than quote the whole.dang.thing:
Take all the spaces out, put the first at the start, and the second at the end and:
Ithiliana any people here if you need feedback from a mans perspective hit me up. I am a scorpio I am pretty intuitive.I know the masculine mind how men think.Trust me, I am an MRA leader for a reason,
Ithiliana you said the word “kyriarchy” wtf?
Ithiliana read my above post on Ms Betty Friedan. She was freaking WGTOW. She was radical, In he eraly 60’s she says we need to redefine what it means to be a woman. Ms, Friedan was like Ayn Rand like really a WGTOW. I respect a WGTOW.
Ms. Friedan ook a risk in the book “The feminine mystique”. This was groundbreaking at the time.
I do not think Ms, Friedan will be pleased with the slut walk movement and the newer feminists like Jaclyn Friedman. I don’t know much but I do not see the new wave of feminism as “feminism’. It’s totally different than what Ms. Friedan envisioned.Ms Friedan has my respect. She was a radical WGTOW that changed the world
Samuel from the future: Can you explain your blog to me? You seem to have written blog posts, and then you post them, and then you comment on them, like so:
Is this really you telling yourself that your [sic] awesome? And just who is Laura whoever? Why do I get the feeling that you’re calling her a feminist because she has a female name? If she needed a ride somewhere, could you give her one, or would you have to run away in terror, covering your boner with your Trapper Keeper?
html fail
Hmmm.
Spaces between the angle brackets and command didn’t work.
Let’s try this:
[blockquote] Text you want to quote [/blockquote]
replace the square brackets above with angle brackets which in case they do not show up are what most keyboards I know give you when you hit the SHIFT key plus the Comma, or the SHIFT KEY and the period
Ihiliana kudos to you for the research check it out
What is Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous?
Sexual addiction and love addiction affect all types of people.
Read The F.W.S. Office Supervisor’s Annual Report July 9- Click Here
Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous, or S.L.A.A., is a Twelve Step, Twelve Tradition oriented Fellowship of men and women who help each other to stay sober. We offer help to anyone who has a sex addiction or love addiction or both and wants to do something about it. We S.L.A.A.’s have a special understanding of each other and the disease, and we have learned how to recover through The Twelve Steps of S.L.A.A.
Types of Sex and Love Addiction.
We in S.L.A.A. believe that sex and love addiction is a progressive illness which cannot be cured but which, like many illnesses, can be arrested. It may take several forms—including, but not limited to a compulsive need for sex, extreme dependency on one or many people, or a chronic preoccupation with romance, intrigue, or fantasy. An obsessive compulsive pattern, either sexual or emotional, or both, exists in which relationships or sexual activities have become increasingly destructive to career, family and sense of self-respect. Sex addiction and love addiction, if left unchecked, always gets worse. However, if we follow a simple program which has proven successful for scores of other men and women with the same illness, we can recover. Only you can determine if you are a sex and love addict. Answering The 40 Questions for Self-Diagnosis will help you make this decision
Samuel: That really made no sense whatsoever. Betty Friedan is/was not the be all and end all of feminism.
“It’s actually Labor day here in The USA and I am off tomorrow so I gave “down time” to blog on man boobz that is why i am here. I’m actually having a blast blogging here. It is fun in a way although aggravating as well. But It is a Lazy sunday night off from work and here blogging.”
You’re not blogging Samuel, you’re commenting (extremely repetitively) on a blog. There’s a difference.
Oh and hey, nice avatar by the way, very manly. Not gay at all. Did your retained semen help you choose it?