Say what you will about the dedicated PUAs (Pick-Up Artists) of the world: at least they sometimes actually talk to real human women. The guys in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, I’m not so sure about.
It’s kind of sad, sometimes, to read the plaintive requests for advice on Seddit (as it’s known) from college guys who’ve fixated on some girl in some class of theirs, and want desperately to learn the secret formula to get into her pants. These aren’t guys who’ve mastered the art of “negging” women with clever little mini-insults (a favorite PUA technique); these are guys who haven’t quite grasped that you have to actually talk to a woman in order to ask her out.
Take this query, recently posted there:
My suggestion?
Write “coffee?” on your forehead, and stand in front of her. Point at your forehead if necessary.
So, yeah, I’ve been banned from Seddit.
Look, I feel for the guy. I’ve been that guy.
But just think of it from the point of view of the girl. Some guy you’ve never spoken to, some guy who doesn’t know a thing about you other than you make him feel funny in his pants, approaches you out of the blue and … slips you a note?
But really, the problem there isn’t the note. Well, part of the problem is the note, But the main problem is that college dude has never spoken to her before. As anyone who has watched Seinfeld knows well, “coffee” means “sex.” Going up to a woman you’ve never spoken to before and asking her out is a bit like saying “hi, you make me feel funny in my pants. I would like to put my penis in you. Perhaps we could chat a bit first. Though, clearly, I don’t care what’s in your actual brain, because here I am asking you out based on nothing more than the fact that you cause that aforementioned feeling in my pants.”
Pro-tip for lonely guys: remember that women are actual human beings also.
Now, this poor Sedditor got some good basic advice from the crowd there, basically boiling down to: figure out an excuse to talk to her before class, and see how it goes.
Now, Seddit may be mildly useful in giving this sort of basic advice to the truly hapless. But it doesn’t seem to be very good at getting across the notion that women are human.
Indeed, there was a strikingly similar question posted in Seddit a couple of days ago: a guy who wanted to ask out the only girl in his engineering class. His post, in stark contrast with the note guy, was bristling with PUA acronyms and lingo: the girl was an “HB8” (Hot Babe that he rated an 8 of 10 on the hotness scale); he was on the lookout for IOSs (Indications of Interest) from her, and so on and so on.
But his strategy was strikingly similar to that of the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) with the note: he was going to walk up to her after class and ask her out for dinner. But he was planning to add one more “technique” to his approach: “kino.” In PUA-speak, kino means touch.
So, yeah, that’s what he learned from all his study of advanced PUA-oloogy: just start touching her! Women are eager to jump into bed with guys who come up to them out of the blue and start groping them. (The post itself was deleted after it got linked to in the ShitRedditSays subreddit, so no link.)
Trouble is, this guy is not the only one getting the message that Pick-up artistry is all about invading a woman’s personal space and “escalating” until she literally fights you off or given is. This is, in fact, the basic message of the PUA who calls himself Gunwich – a man who not that long ago (allegedly) shot a woman I the face after she refused his advances.
And, yes, pressuring a woman until she gives in, or up, is one way of getting in her pants. It’s also, you know, rape.
In recent days a number of Sedditers have posted advice that is little more than a how-to of date rape. A number of instances were pointed out in ShitRedditSays, and were deleted by the Seddit moderators. It’s clear this is damage control; a number of regulars on ShitRedditSays have been banned from posting in Seddit – many of whom had actually never posted there in the first place.
Here’s a discussion of one copy-and pasted date rape guide that got deleted before anyone made a screencap.
The Seddit mods say this is “fringe” stuff that doesn’t reflect how most Sedditors think. Then how is it that some of the creepiest comments get dozens of upvotes? Take this Sedditor’s advice on how to get inside a woman’s house (and then her pants) that I managed to screencap before it was deleted:
Now, there is plenty of PUA material that is not rapey. Manipulative, sure. Dopey, absolutely. But not rapey. A good Pick-Up Artist, in theory at least, should be able to tell when a woman is interested and when she isn’t, and move on when she isn’t.
But it’s clear that many Sedditors aren’t learning that whole “if she’s not interested, move on” thing. They’re learning: “if she’s not interested, pressure her and manipulate her, and wear her down. And be sure to touch her. Sorry, “kino escalate.”
They’re not learning empathy. They’re learning stupid human tricks. And, worse, they’re learning to ignore a woman’s “no,” to treat it as what PUAs call LMR – that is, Last Minute Resistance. And that’s pretty much a formula for date rape.
Slothy, that isn’t how consent WORKS. This article might help. You might also want to look up the concept “yes means yes”.
I still don’t know what kind of point you’re trying to make about people with PTSD. You’re pretty much saying people with PTSD from other sources are saying they were raped? Does this happen a lot?
Molly said,
Wiki said,
Slothy said,
Samuel, I am a man. I do not get all that tired after one orgasm. Rather, what fatigues me more, but which I enjoy, is the act of sex itself. An involved physical process that will burn calories. Hell, I prefer my sexual encounters to result in orgasms both for my partner and for myself, and I’ve found that in most of my encounters, I’m capable of sexual arousal again very shortly after my first orgasm. This is because, while there are many similar trends within how human sexuality functions, people are physiologically different. Some men do feel very tired after sex. Some men are ready to go and do more things.
Do note, having energy cycles is not a bad thing. Keeping it all saved up in your balls does not necessarily make you have more energy. In fact, I’d describe it unhealthy not to masturbate for long periods of time.
@Molly Ren
” So, Slothy, why are you protesting people having PTSD?”
Only if it’s for men. Those State funds could be put to better use, like abortion, womens shelters, womens health and so on.
“You’re pretty much saying people with PTSD from other sources are saying they were raped?”
No I am not. Someone came in here talking about all the traumatic stuff that happened to her(?) after some consensual sex, implying it was rape. I said that being traumatized (I guessed it was PTSD) doesn’t automatically make it rape.
Oh Kristinmh one more thing, I actually( andI think other men in my position concur)
feel sexier being celibate and preserving sperm. You get a glow in your eyes. I have so much energy. I feel alive. I want to flirt and be sexy-no to get laid but just to be radiant.
This shit works. A cousin of mine who I haven’t seen for a year said I looked glowing and radiant.Its that glow in a celibate mans eyes that is very sexy. Plus a celibate man is clean and smells sexy. Kapish?
“If I remember correctly, one of the first things one learned in feminism 101 was the story of how the “rule of thumb” came about. Romulus and Remus of ancient Rome declared a man should never use a stick larger than his thumb to beat his wife. Of course Romulus and Remus were mythical, but if feminists say it’s true, it’s gospel. My history is just sooo biongered up.”
It really, really is.
Romulus and Remus is just about founding Rome. That’s it. (Actually, it’s a story with a whole lot of rape in it, not so much about sticks.)
I think the first thing I learned in feminism 101 was about the wage gap, actually.
It’s considered a ‘spiritual belief’ because there’s no evidence it actually works.
Feminism 101 doesn’t exist as a college history course, anywhere. You can’t even make your bullshit sound remotely decent.
“Someone came in here talking about all the traumatic stuff that happened to her(?) after some consensual sex, implying it was rape. I said that being traumatized (I guessed it was PTSD) doesn’t automatically make it rape.”
Slothy, let’s take this apart. If she had sex, and felt traumatized afterwards, where did the trauma come from?
Do you think she is lying about the trauma?
How do you know she consented to the sex?
(Also, dude, this is a long thread. Where the eff WAS this story?)
Keep arguing against those straw-feminists!
Sigh. Responding to the slaveman doesn’t really seem to serve a purpose (he’s too dumb to learn), but some of this shit is too vile to let stand. For the benefit of the lurkers:
In a survey of 1882 men, 120 self-identified as rapists. A majority of these rapists were repeat rapists, and also had high rates of other acts of interpersonal violence. Most incarcerated rapists have similarly high levels of repeat rape and other violent offenses; most incarcerated rapists also share high levels of anger at women, the need to dominate women, hypermasculinity, lack of empathy, and psychopathy. Many rapists have outlets for consensual sex, but rapists are interested in rape, not consensual sex.
This is the background of rape. Not scantily dressed women who constantly bombard men with their sexuality, dumbass.
@NWOSlave.
That is actually a lie about Feminism 101. That is not what is taught in it. The first thing taught in Gender Studies 101 is that there are many feminisms (and other isms) and that it is SPECIFICALLY a spectrum of perspectives to view the world. But hey, prove your ignorance more. Shift the blame like the liar that you are.
See, here is your problem. Your not actually defending yourself. Your just blaming feminism. I’d consider myself having a rational humanist mindset if I were to label myself. I’m saying that you are objectively ignorant. Note, it’s not just feminism that would say that. Science, linguistics, sociology, psychology, legal studies, etc. pretty much disagree with you. Never mind that you still can’t do math. I suppose for you, there must be these little devil women in each of the numbers, messing up your calculations. AND CLEARLY since you believe men can’t control themselves, that you yourself are just unable to control yourself to finish basic calculations.
Cynickal wake me up when you have something to contribute or you learn to read.
And yes, there is no feminism 101. Hence, I said gender studies, which does also discuss feminism, but is not unique only to feminism.
She said she essentially gave in to peer pressure. I don’t think that qualifies as rape.
@Molly Ren
Nuhuh princess. If a man and woman are drinking and they have sex, “he” is responsible for her actions. Otherwise there’d be no such thing as “too drunk” to consent. They can both be equally drunk and “he” has committed a crime. Yes don’t mean yes. The next day, or next year, even after “enthusiastic” consent, yes might mean rape. It all depends on how a woman “feels” at any point in time. Before, she can “feel” sexually assaulted by a mere look, (think hollaback). During, she can say stop and if the stop isn’t immediate it’s rape. After, well many years later she might “feel” like she was raped. It’s the “law.”
“Yes” never means “yes” under womens law, if years later she “feels” differently.
Wait, wait, I got it! SLOTHY THINKS WOMEN JUST HAVE SEX IN ORDER TO HAVE POWER OVER MEN! He totally buys into NWO’s theory about how women just lie about rape in order to throw men in jail! (Because it’s… fun?)
NWO, I’m really sorry no woman will give you the time of day, much less a second look, but you are so fucking vile it’s no wonder. Stupid, ugly, and mean is no way to go through life, son.
And Samuel, if you think he’s right about anything, you’re dumber than a bag of hair.
Molly do you have some straw man quota?
I don’t think she even charged the guy.
ive never heard anyone mention romulus in remus in connection of the rule of thumb before, but
Bradley v. State, Supreme Court of Mississippi 1824
so yeah owlslave is confused again. who is suprised?
Look samuel unless you’re a doctor you can’t really say what caused the glow in your eyes.
@Flib
Anything “you” say must be true, since everything I say is incorrect. Hmmm, woman always right, man always wrong. Where have I heard that before? Oh yea, the State, schools, the MSM, charities. Everywhere. If only men would admit there always wrong there wouldn’t be any misgynists.
Okay, Slothy, I’ll stop prodding you for the fun of it.
It’s true that I really can’t figure out what you’re arguing here, though. I think you need to expand upon it, at the very least. You wrote:
“Someone came in here talking about all the traumatic stuff that happened to her(?) after some consensual sex, implying it was rape. I said that being traumatized (I guessed it was PTSD) doesn’t automatically make it rape.”
This brings up a lot of questions, because you can’t seem to see the contradiction in this statement. Why do you think it *wasn’t* rape, despite the trauma that came *after* the sex? Either a.) you think she is lying about feeling trauma for some reason, or b.) you think people can have sex, feel traumatized afterwards, and yet the trauma isn’t connected to the sex. If she’s not lying, why does she feel traumatized? Is PTSD just something that strikes you randomly?
If there’s another reason I’m not getting, feel free to spell it out for me, because I’m just not getting it.
Hey NWO Flib just said that he’s also a guy.
Well going on her words she appears to be traumatized because of consensual sex. I don’t blame her, I felt cheated and robbed after I bought something out of peer pressure, I’d imagine sex would be a hell of a lot worse. I wouldn’t say that I was robbed though.