Say what you will about the dedicated PUAs (Pick-Up Artists) of the world: at least they sometimes actually talk to real human women. The guys in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, I’m not so sure about.
It’s kind of sad, sometimes, to read the plaintive requests for advice on Seddit (as it’s known) from college guys who’ve fixated on some girl in some class of theirs, and want desperately to learn the secret formula to get into her pants. These aren’t guys who’ve mastered the art of “negging” women with clever little mini-insults (a favorite PUA technique); these are guys who haven’t quite grasped that you have to actually talk to a woman in order to ask her out.
Take this query, recently posted there:
My suggestion?
Write “coffee?” on your forehead, and stand in front of her. Point at your forehead if necessary.
So, yeah, I’ve been banned from Seddit.
Look, I feel for the guy. I’ve been that guy.
But just think of it from the point of view of the girl. Some guy you’ve never spoken to, some guy who doesn’t know a thing about you other than you make him feel funny in his pants, approaches you out of the blue and … slips you a note?
But really, the problem there isn’t the note. Well, part of the problem is the note, But the main problem is that college dude has never spoken to her before. As anyone who has watched Seinfeld knows well, “coffee” means “sex.” Going up to a woman you’ve never spoken to before and asking her out is a bit like saying “hi, you make me feel funny in my pants. I would like to put my penis in you. Perhaps we could chat a bit first. Though, clearly, I don’t care what’s in your actual brain, because here I am asking you out based on nothing more than the fact that you cause that aforementioned feeling in my pants.”
Pro-tip for lonely guys: remember that women are actual human beings also.
Now, this poor Sedditor got some good basic advice from the crowd there, basically boiling down to: figure out an excuse to talk to her before class, and see how it goes.
Now, Seddit may be mildly useful in giving this sort of basic advice to the truly hapless. But it doesn’t seem to be very good at getting across the notion that women are human.
Indeed, there was a strikingly similar question posted in Seddit a couple of days ago: a guy who wanted to ask out the only girl in his engineering class. His post, in stark contrast with the note guy, was bristling with PUA acronyms and lingo: the girl was an “HB8” (Hot Babe that he rated an 8 of 10 on the hotness scale); he was on the lookout for IOSs (Indications of Interest) from her, and so on and so on.
But his strategy was strikingly similar to that of the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) with the note: he was going to walk up to her after class and ask her out for dinner. But he was planning to add one more “technique” to his approach: “kino.” In PUA-speak, kino means touch.
So, yeah, that’s what he learned from all his study of advanced PUA-oloogy: just start touching her! Women are eager to jump into bed with guys who come up to them out of the blue and start groping them. (The post itself was deleted after it got linked to in the ShitRedditSays subreddit, so no link.)
Trouble is, this guy is not the only one getting the message that Pick-up artistry is all about invading a woman’s personal space and “escalating” until she literally fights you off or given is. This is, in fact, the basic message of the PUA who calls himself Gunwich – a man who not that long ago (allegedly) shot a woman I the face after she refused his advances.
And, yes, pressuring a woman until she gives in, or up, is one way of getting in her pants. It’s also, you know, rape.
In recent days a number of Sedditers have posted advice that is little more than a how-to of date rape. A number of instances were pointed out in ShitRedditSays, and were deleted by the Seddit moderators. It’s clear this is damage control; a number of regulars on ShitRedditSays have been banned from posting in Seddit – many of whom had actually never posted there in the first place.
Here’s a discussion of one copy-and pasted date rape guide that got deleted before anyone made a screencap.
The Seddit mods say this is “fringe” stuff that doesn’t reflect how most Sedditors think. Then how is it that some of the creepiest comments get dozens of upvotes? Take this Sedditor’s advice on how to get inside a woman’s house (and then her pants) that I managed to screencap before it was deleted:
Now, there is plenty of PUA material that is not rapey. Manipulative, sure. Dopey, absolutely. But not rapey. A good Pick-Up Artist, in theory at least, should be able to tell when a woman is interested and when she isn’t, and move on when she isn’t.
But it’s clear that many Sedditors aren’t learning that whole “if she’s not interested, move on” thing. They’re learning: “if she’s not interested, pressure her and manipulate her, and wear her down. And be sure to touch her. Sorry, “kino escalate.”
They’re not learning empathy. They’re learning stupid human tricks. And, worse, they’re learning to ignore a woman’s “no,” to treat it as what PUAs call LMR – that is, Last Minute Resistance. And that’s pretty much a formula for date rape.
Slavey, you are a huge misandrist for claiming men can’t control themselves. This is nothing new for you, but I’d like to remind you that your stupid and clearly don’t give a shit about mens rights.
Molly said Do you get to be a faction if you’re only one person?
WTF?
samuel2112, you’re the ONLY GUY WE’VE EVER MET ONLINE who defines “MGTOW” as “not hating on women”. How can you have all this pity for women who have been raped, and yet love shit like the Spearhead?
Get your fucking crocodile tears off this site, ya slimeball.
Bee said Samuel from the future: I’m just curious; how are you “in” NOMAS? Have you donated money to them to become a member, at least?
Absolutely I donated money. I am in the process of starting a chapter in my hometown.I was on the phone with the NOMAS director in Colorado we had a blast on the phone for a while.
Feyline asked
Samuel: Where in Felix’s comment does he say anything about NOMAS?
Feyline I really meant that Felix calling me a condescending prat means I cannot win.
If I say women are just tits and ass I am considered a male chauvinist pig. If I say I refuse to sexually objectify women anymore and desire to see women as human beings only
I am considered a condescending prat. I mentioned NOMAS because NOMAS is against sexism. In my opinion sexually objectifying women as lust objects to possess not people is a form of sexism.
“you can’t really get away with saying they’re entirely unconnected.”
I never said that, I said PTSD doesn’t make it rape.
Rutee, thanks for taking down the semen woo. Nice and exhaustive.
I’d just like to add:
Sammy, you feel tired after sex because sex burns calories, like all activities where you move your body and your heart rate is elevated. It is not, I repeat, NOT because your Manly Man Man essence has been drained away.
You see, women feel tired after sex too. How can your Grand Unifying Theory Of Semen explain this? Our gametes are not released during sex, so it can’t be that we are squandering our Womanly Essence. This is a major hole in your theory that you have not addressed
I feel my Aerobic Exercise Theory is the simplest explanation for post-sex tiredness in all sexes and genders. However our reproductive tracts are organized, we all burn calories when we exercise. Occam’s Razor!
“PTSD doesn’t make it rape”
So, if they haven’t been in a war zone, why do they have PTSD? Think a little bit… or do you think people can have PTSD for no reason at all?
@Nobinayamu
“You claim, repeatedly, that men sexually assault women because they’re sexually frustrated by women. You also claim that women are almost always lying about being sexually assaulted.”
If I must, even though you didn’t answer me.
Women sexually frustrating men thru the constant bombardment of female sexuality is how women build the finest violent rapists in the world. And of course the vast majority of violent rapists come from female led households. The feminists paradise. Think of where I said as a few of womens many options, “A woman sexually arouses a man, then at her leisure, depending on how she “feels” she has choices. Maybe use her sex to get freebies. Maybe laugh with her girlgang at the stupid man who can’t control his “sex.” Maybe use her sex to have another man beat him up for calling her a bitch. Maybe “hollaback” and have him slapped on the sexual offender list.”
Now I’m sure ya’ll think it’s funny but it really isn’t. See the first two I listed would be the frustration part which women so lovingly craft violent rapists. Here doggie, ya want this, and then pull it away. It’s a fucking riot. The second two would be the lying part, where for shits and grins, or perhaps Molly Ren suddenly “feels” her “dignity” has been besmirched.
Of course in the cases of rape I’m talking about actual rape and not the pretend stuff. Ya know like, we were both drunk so “he” should have known better. Or the, “he treated me like an object.” Or I didn’t flap my wings like a chicken coming out to feed in the morning, signifying absolute “enthusiastic” consent. Or possibly the dreaded “power dynamic.” That one is undefeatable. And of course the, it was “enthusiastic” at the time, but after giving it some thought, it was rape.
—————————
Oh, and as for,
“And to think, you’re convinced that “feminism” is the cause of you failures and loneliness.”
I’m neither a failure nor lonely. I know you believe whatever falls from a womans mouth has value and is therefore true, but it ain’t.
Do tell. Why am “I” a failure. Could it have something to do with women? The only reason you would call me a failure, since this blog is about them bad ole misogynists, would be that I’ve somehow failed women in some way. Is my gospel “loneliness,” (I say gospel because it fell from a womans mouth) also due to my failing women in some way?
Does having sex with Slothy always cause PTSD?
Slothy is probably DOING IT RONG!
Protip: If your partners are suffering from PTSD after sexing you, you’re probably raping them.
Rutee said”Also, the “You’re sleeping with everyone your partner has slept with” thing isn’t for ‘spiritual’ reasons, you stupid tit. It’s for health ones; it’s why getting tested is so important if you’re actively having sex.
Rutee you are amazing. Sex is fucking dangerous.You can get STD’s/
Also read Patrick Carnes book “out of the shadows” on sexual adiction. Look at Tiger Woods he went to sex rehab. Sandra Bullocks husband. Elliot Spitzer., Bill Clinton, Thomas Jefferson, Clarence Thomas, JFK, Clinton and Lewinsky,even MLK had affairs.
Sex Addiction is real. Dudes can spend hours on porn sites and women can buy romance novels or watch porn as well. There are sex rehabs
A man named Patrick Carnes is foremost author on Sex Addiction. I have a friend that goes to SEx and Love Afddicts Anonymous and Sexual Recovery Anonymous
Nobinayu stated “Samuel, are you going to acknowledge Pam’s comments about your support of NWOs assertions?”
What question ask me again. I am sorry I missed it. I am not blowing ya off
Paul Elam is really not pro-feminist at all actually. Unfortunately, we’re not permitted to discuss why, because of the nature of his hatred of feminism. Suffice it to say, he’s not winning you points, shut the hell up.
“Rutee you are amazing. Sex is fucking dangerous.You can get STD’s/”
Samuel, you are amazing. Crossing the street is fucking dangerous. You can get hit by a car/
Slavey, your a failure because: You are a misogynist. You are a misandrist. You can’t do math. You can’t function on any logical basis. It’s pretty clear you are not an engineer, so you are likely a liar. You cherry pick what your responding to, but don’t actually respond. You don’t know how discourse actually works. You are woefully ignorant on linguistics, legal script, cultures, religion, science and many other subjects. Rather then educating yourself, you specifically take a path of resistance because you are far to invested into an ideal of ignorance and blaming feminism. Pretty much everything I just said above can be objectively stated. It is not a matter of opinion, you are these things as you have given no indicative attempts on your own part. You are only vitriol and ignorant.
Yeah, but that’s not spiritual. You said spiritual.
Not all sex is dangerous; sex with people who have STDs carries a risk of getting that STD yes. That’s why caution and protection are important.
None of that means there’s a physical addictionf or sex; addiction isn’t a term used widely. It refers to observable physical effects that build a dependency on a substance. You don’t get addicted to cigarrettes because they just taste so good; you build a chemical dependency on them. There’s little to no evidence of such for sex.
That isn’t evidence for sex addiction. evidence for sex addiction would be tests for physical dependency.
None of his work seems to reference an actual physical dependency so…. he can go fuck himself.
Molly Ren
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptsd
“Posttraumatic stress disorder (also known as post-traumatic stress disorder or PTSD) is a severe anxiety disorder that can develop after exposure to any event that results in psychological trauma”
Nice try (well not really).
I feel like if someone told Slothy “Please don’t yell at me, it gives me flashbacks” he’d respond “OMG IT’S NOT LIKE I’M RAPING YOU WHAT ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT?”
Samuel from the future: I’m curious again. During your extensive conversation with the NOMAS director in which you discussed starting your own local chapter, did you at any point tell him that you are a big sexist who can’t be in the same car as a woman for fear of getting a boner, and that as far as you know, homosexuality is something that men choose so that they don’t have to share their lifeforce with women? Or that you “fucking love” well-known internet misogynists?
If so, would you mind sharing what he said in response?
So, Slothy, why are you protesting people having PTSD?
Really, I don’t know why you’re arguing here. Are you saying people with PTSD from other sources are accusing people of rape? Does this happen often?
Kristinmh said Rutee, thanks for taking down the semen woo. Nice and exhaustive.
I’d just like to add:
Sammy, you feel tired after sex because sex burns calories, like all activities where you move your body and your heart rate is elevated. It is not, I repeat, NOT because your Manly Man Man essence has been drained away.
You see, women feel tired after sex too. How can your Grand Unifying Theory Of Semen
explain this? Our gametes are not released during sex, so it can’t be that we are squandering our Womanly Essence. This is a major hole in your theory that you have not addressed
Kristinmh sex is a chakra. It is spiritual energy. That is why Tantric sex is popular in spiritual circles.Chakra is serious look it up on wikipedia or google it
Kristinmh you are not a man no offense you do not know what it feels like to be a man.
After I release semen whether sex or masturbation I am shot. Even if I masturbate for a minute and I ejaculate I am tired and napping.
Also if a guy has too much sex and ,masturbation his erections will not be as hard and raging and his orgasms will not be as intense.
Look how popular cialis and viagra and levitra are? What gives? Even youmng dudes are taking cialis.
With me if I ever choose to begin to have sexual relations with a female again my erection will be naturally stiff not in need of artificial viagra.
During orgasm I will be lit on fire. It will be special.Good things come to those who wait. No pun intended
And I feel like you’d call consensual sex rape if one of them had the slightest tinge of regret afterwards.
See I can make up crap about you too.
“So, Slothy, why are you protesting people having PTSD?”
I haven’t done that. Pay attention.
Hell, Bee, ya beat me to it, I was just gonna ask him pretty much the same thing!
@Flib
“Slavey, your a failure because: You are a misogynist. You are a misandrist. You can’t do math. You can’t function on any logical basis. It’s pretty clear you are not an engineer, so you are likely a liar. You cherry pick what your responding to, but don’t actually respond. You don’t know how discourse actually works. You are woefully ignorant on linguistics, legal script, cultures, religion, science and many other subjects. Rather then educating yourself, you specifically take a path of resistance because you are far to invested into an ideal of ignorance and blaming feminism. Pretty much everything I just said above can be objectively stated. It is not a matter of opinion, you are these things as you have given no indicative attempts on your own part. You are only vitriol and ignorant.”
Since a femisnist said it, it must be true. You pretty much covered all the bases. Although you did forget hating elephants and flounce. I guess I should take a course in womens studies to broaden my limited intellect. History ain’t worth a damn unless it’s written as womens oppression.
If I remember correctly, one of the first things one learned in feminism 101 was the story of how the “rule of thumb” came about. Romulus and Remus of ancient Rome declared a man should never use a stick larger than his thumb to beat his wife. Of course Romulus and Remus were mythical, but if feminists say it’s true, it’s gospel. My history is just sooo biongered up.