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creepy men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny nice guys PUA rape rapey reddit sexual harassment

If at first you don’t succeed, grope her

This might work, actually.

Say what you will about the dedicated PUAs (Pick-Up Artists) of the world: at least they sometimes actually talk to real human women. The guys in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, I’m not so sure about.

It’s kind of sad, sometimes, to read the plaintive requests for advice on Seddit (as it’s known) from college guys who’ve fixated on some girl in some class of theirs, and want desperately to learn the secret formula to get into her pants. These aren’t guys who’ve mastered the art of “negging” women with clever little mini-insults (a favorite PUA technique); these are guys who haven’t quite grasped that you have to actually talk to a woman in order to ask her out.

Take this query, recently posted there:

My suggestion?

Write “coffee?” on your forehead, and stand in front of her. Point at your forehead if necessary.

So, yeah, I’ve been banned from Seddit.

Look, I feel for the guy. I’ve been that guy.

But just think of it from the point of view of the girl. Some guy you’ve never spoken to, some guy who doesn’t know a thing about you other than you make him feel funny in his pants, approaches you out of the blue and … slips you a note?

But really, the problem there isn’t the note. Well, part of the problem is the note, But the main problem is that college dude has never spoken to her before. As anyone who has watched Seinfeld knows well, “coffee” means “sex.” Going up to a woman you’ve never spoken to before and asking her out is a bit like saying “hi, you make me feel funny in my pants. I would like to put my penis in you. Perhaps we could chat a bit first. Though, clearly, I don’t care what’s in your actual brain, because here I am asking you out based on nothing more than the fact that you cause that aforementioned feeling in my pants.”

Pro-tip for lonely guys: remember that women are actual human beings also.

Now, this poor Sedditor got some good basic advice from the crowd there, basically boiling down to: figure out an excuse to talk to her before class, and see how it goes.

Now, Seddit may be mildly useful in giving this sort of basic advice to the truly hapless. But it doesn’t seem to be very good at getting across the notion that women are human.

Indeed, there was a strikingly similar question posted in Seddit a couple of days ago: a guy who wanted to ask out the only girl in his engineering class. His post, in stark contrast with the note guy, was bristling with PUA acronyms and lingo: the girl was an “HB8” (Hot Babe that he rated an 8 of 10 on the hotness scale);  he was on the lookout for IOSs (Indications of Interest) from her, and so on and so on.

But his strategy was strikingly similar to that of the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) with the note: he was going to walk up to her after class and ask her out for dinner. But he was planning to add one more “technique” to his approach: “kino.” In PUA-speak, kino means touch.

So, yeah, that’s what he learned from all his study of advanced PUA-oloogy: just start touching her!  Women are eager to jump into bed with guys who come up to them out of the blue and start groping them. (The post itself was deleted after it got linked to in the ShitRedditSays subreddit, so no link.)

Trouble is, this guy is not the only one getting the message that Pick-up artistry is all about invading a woman’s personal space and “escalating” until she literally fights you off or given is. This is, in fact, the basic message of the PUA who calls himself Gunwich – a man who not that long ago (allegedly) shot a woman I the face after she refused his advances.

And, yes, pressuring a woman until she gives in, or up, is one way of getting in her pants. It’s also, you know, rape.

In recent days a number of Sedditers have posted advice that is little more than a how-to of date rape.  A number of instances were pointed out in ShitRedditSays, and were deleted by the Seddit moderators. It’s clear this is damage control; a number of regulars on ShitRedditSays have been banned from posting in Seddit – many of whom had actually never posted there in the first place.

Here’s a discussion of one copy-and pasted date rape guide that got deleted before anyone made a screencap.

The Seddit mods say this is “fringe” stuff that doesn’t reflect how most Sedditors think. Then how is it that some of the creepiest comments  get dozens of upvotes? Take this Sedditor’s advice on how to get inside a woman’s house (and then her pants) that I managed to screencap before it was deleted:

Now, there is plenty of PUA material that is not rapey. Manipulative, sure. Dopey, absolutely. But not rapey. A good Pick-Up Artist, in theory at least, should be able to tell when a woman is interested and when she isn’t, and move on when she isn’t.

But it’s clear that many Sedditors aren’t learning that whole “if she’s not interested, move on” thing. They’re learning: “if she’s not interested, pressure her and manipulate her, and wear her down. And be sure to touch her. Sorry, “kino escalate.”

They’re not learning empathy. They’re learning stupid human tricks. And, worse, they’re learning to ignore a woman’s “no,” to treat it as what PUAs call LMR – that is, Last Minute Resistance. And that’s pretty much  a formula for date rape.

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felixBC
felixBC
9 years ago

Aw, hell. Googled proverbs 5: http://www.christadelphianbooks.org/agora/comm/20_prov/prov06.html

Good thing I never read that one. Spent all my bible reading time going over the sermon on the mount. This proverbs 5 seems to have poisoned more minds than just Samuel’s.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

NWO: And, hey, you never responded to my (multiple) assertions about my marriage license. That means you agree with me!

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@Lauralot

Last comment of the night cause I am waaaaay tired.

Sweetheart, you and everyone else here has called me every name in the book. If name callin was a banable offense, da crew would all be banned.

Here is this better? Pwease forgive me for being naughty. Woof, woof. Now toss me a pavlovian bisquit and tell me I’m a good boy.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

I’ve had sex with nine partners! Not nine times in my life!

Yeah, after I posted that I went out to fry some steaks and then it hit me. Sorry. >.<

Anyway, NWOSlave, are you going to attempt to justify the things you said or not? You know, there are people with all sorts of beliefs on this forum. Katz is a Christian, Pecunium's at least a theist of some sort, Rutee's an atheist and I know we have more…Hell, even Samuel's astrology thing doesn't bug me, and except for the part where he’s a misogynist creep, the sperm-retention thing doesn’t either. As long as it makes him happy and until he starts hurting other people, he can believe whatever.

It’s your beliefs I have the problem with. You are one of the few people here whose beliefs make me actively angry. Your beliefs suck.

Lauralot
Lauralot
9 years ago

Hey, my first day of posting and I’ve been condescended by a troll already. I’d say I feel special, but that would be my sense of womanly entitlement talking, right?

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Sweetheart, you and everyone else here has called me every name in the book. If name callin was a banable offense, da crew would all be banned.

Show me where anyone said you weren’t human. Because that’s what you said to Molly Ren.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

Don’t call Molly not a human! Don’t call anyone a fuckdoll without a pulse unless there has been negotiation first and a safeword established!

I’m an atheist utilitarian rationalist! 🙂

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

To be fair, it should be trivially easy to find someone calling him pond scum. Of course, even that doesn’t reduce him to a toy for someone else to play with.

felixBC
felixBC
9 years ago

Did we really get this far without anyone posting this video?
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY&w=420&h=345%5D
Start at 2:25 if you want just the good bit.

Magpie
Magpie
9 years ago

Molly had me convinced for a while that she was a cute pygmy hippo living in Kirby’s head 😀

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

Do you really have to post your picture on a gravatar? It is a threat to me but I see in your picture a human being with fears,hurts,joys,love and hapiness,hobbies.

Stop forcing me to acknowledge your humanity with every comment you make! It’s ruining my focusing on all women being psychedelic strawfeminists!!!!

Also too, this is why I hide my face.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Molly had me convinced for a while that she was a cute pygmy hippo living in Kirby’s head

You mean she’s not? Wait a minute … who was that cute pygmy hippo I saw in Kirby’s head, then?

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

What the hell is happening here?
I’m actually a little terrified. This is some serial killer shit.

I blame your trilby.

felixBC
felixBC
9 years ago

Bonersplaining. Good to have a term for it. Listen to my penis! Its desire must be your command.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

It’s possible Samuel is a troll, but my money’s on serious mental illness. I’m not joking.

felixBC
felixBC
9 years ago

This is your brain on misogyny and religion. My vote’s for actual oddness, and coming apart at the seams, not trolling. Someone’s convinced him that his human desires are evil, and, not surprisingly, he’s having a rough time incorporating that into a cohesive world view that doesn’t rip to shreds at the first sighting of reality. I wonder what sort of cave he came out of a month ago–seminary? hospital? cult?

katz
9 years ago

and when samuel looks at Molly he sees a baby hippo that’s all cute and roly poly but he knows it has its own pools to wallow in and watermelons to eat and stuff and he doesn’ twant to see it as a sexual object instead of a hippo but it inflames him wtih passion and he’s scared of it because of the power it exercises over him with everypost and Molly purposely uses that hippo picture because she knows the power it gives her over men with baby hippo fetishes

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

A guy spouting off on Traditional <foo> Medicine is almost certainly not just out of seminary.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

“…psychedelic strawfeminists!!!!”

Band name?

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

From Samuel’s blog:

I had a mother who told me not to be a wimp and to take it like a man when I got stung by a bee – I was nine years old

Well, I think we all can guess why I posted my gravitar picture … Oh, the power!

Kave
Kave
9 years ago

Samuel

What has struck me regarding your posts is from your speech you are Asian, if I had to guess from India at least historically. There is no way that you could by now have me in anyway accept that English, or any European dialect is your first language.

Yet you picture yourself as a Caucasian muscular man. That is a great deal of self loathing.

(and no.. do not try to paint yourself as just a dude from Kansas)

I feel sad for you because of this.

hf
hf
9 years ago

Yes, Seinfeld

redlocker
9 years ago

It’s like this place is the Baskin Robbins of trolls or something.

redlocker
9 years ago

I mean, don’t get me wrong, Manboobz = awesome, but it’s like every month (more like every 2 weeks if one does some rounding), there is some new flavor of bigoted crazy in the comment section.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Rutee:

A guy spouting off on Traditional Medicine is almost certainly not just out of seminary.

He keeps alluding to traditional Indian beliefs and Taoism. My money’s on a garden-variety hippie who went insane.

To be fair, it should be trivially easy to find someone calling him pond scum. Of course, even that doesn’t reduce him to a toy for someone else to play with.

The level of contempt is in no way comparable.

Magpie
Magpie
9 years ago

Mind you, half the new flavours of bigoted crazy come from NWO – we haven’t completed plumbed his depths yet, I’m sure;)

redlocker
9 years ago

“Mind you, half the new flavours of bigoted crazy come from NWO – we haven’t completed plumbed his depths yet, I’m sure;)”

Flavor of the Month: Rothschild Feminist Conspiracy

Try it in a waffle cone. I heard it’s DA BOMB!

redlocker
9 years ago

If you don’t like the Flavor of the Month, try these others:

– Nazi Pedo

– Captain “Penti Linkola” Planet

– Smug Asshole (May or may not be literal)

– TAB

– Dangerous Pussy (Remember this one?)

– Oppression Olympics

Come here on your birthday and we’ll give a free cone plus a purple nurple.

Magpie
Magpie
9 years ago

My Dad reckons there are 3 evil conspiracies: ‘the jews’, ‘the romans’ (ie catholics) and ‘the fabians’. I don’t know what fabians are but I’d much rather hear NWO’s definition than look it up for myself 🙂

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Stop posting, NWOSlave. Go back to Spearhead, to Stormfront, to Freep, to Gates of Vienna, to the timecube site with its funky colors on the white graph background and the dude’s yearly lectures that make sense only to him. Go back to street preaching shouting on the corner, for the time is short, and all who repent will be saved, except you, you dirty whore, you know who you are. Go back to the beard, to the robes, to the tricorne hat and “teabagging” said without a trace of irony: dimly you understand that humor is the weapon used against you by your enemies, but as soon as you have the thought, like mercury through your fingers it’s gone. That’s one more nail in the coffin of your righteous anger…that and your confusing feelings toward Sarah Palin.

Go back to Angelfire, to Geocities, to Yahoo, to Juno, go back to when Snow Crash meant a brave new world, go back to playing Shadowrun, go back to Neuromancer, but don’t stay too long, because the fictional Internet is not, shall we say, “your bag,” and because there’s a chick in that book with silver-plated machine eyes and claws like whoah. Go back to dial-up, to fax machines, to WHEEEE-oooo-chchchc, to Hunter S Thompson’s mojo wire, to teletype, telegraph, wireless receivers, ham radio, to the crystal set. Go back to ENIAC, to the computer in the basement. Go back to vacuum tubes. Go back to the bonfire on the mountain top, to those windmill things that Napoleon invented, to the battle-poetry of the Mongol army, in which (since almost everyone was illiterate) all orders were sung.

Go back to language games, to Wittgenstein having no idea how it is that when I say a thing he hears the same thing, go back to the developmental psychologist holding up the rattle to your blurry gaze: “Can you tell me what this is?” Go back to the kabbala, to the secret sign-language from which God spins forth the earth. Go back to runes, to dead/alive Odin hanging off the tree so the world around him could shift its slow gears and start to mean. Go back to oracle bones.

Go back to the numb silence in the air after Babel fell, to the gulf of nonmeaning between your open mouth, my gesturing hand, the stack of bricks on the hod between us. Like a ringing in your ears: within the space left by the death of the Master Language, a thousand tongues can proliferate and therefore the massage of Babel is not not sorrow but indefinite possibility. Maybe you won’t fuck up this time.

Need to know
9 years ago

VoiP- that was righteous. “You. Shall NOT. Pass!” and smite the rock with a staff degree righteous.

Jill the Spinster
Jill the Spinster
9 years ago

Hey NWO, good to see you back posting on the spearhead. it was a genius plan to pretend to be an MRA, get upvotes, then advertise your real fave site manboobz.com

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Hey NWO, how many of these do you believe? Be honest.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
9 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Society

Just your standard social democrats, apparently behind the UK’s Labour Party.

The first link I found on the Fabian Society was an article from Leon fucking Trotsky reposted on marxists.org saying all about how the Fabian Society are just a bunch of bourgeois socialists that aren’t serious revolutionaries.

I find it interesting how the paranoid right-wing mindset goes apeshit crazy at the idea that *out there* there might be a few socialists who are so devious as to want to bring about a socialist society through peaceful, electoral methods. THE NERVE!

kristinmh
kristinmh
9 years ago

*peeks head out* Is Sammy gone? Can I show my face in here without making him uncomfortable?

Don’t forget, redlocker, that NWO is the Rainbow Sorbet of trolls – all the flavours at once! Creationism, conspiracy theories, anti-vaccination, misogyny, rapiness – he does it all!

TheTraducer
TheTraducer
9 years ago

Pray devoutly.
Hammer stoutly.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Holy shit. That was quite the meltdown.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

VOIP, you are badass.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

What on earth happened in here?

You know that scene in Silence of the Lambs when the guards walk in to the room of the museum after Lecter’s escape?

I feel like one of those guards.

Lauralot
Lauralot
9 years ago

At least you’re not the guard who had his face sliced off?

Amnesia
Amnesia
9 years ago

Don’t forget, redlocker, that NWO is the Rainbow Sorbet of trolls – all the flavours at once! Creationism, conspiracy theories, anti-vaccination, misogyny, rapiness – he does it all!

I’m just waiting for the day he starts subscribing to AntZ’s Ritalin conspiracy.

Pam
Pam
9 years ago

It’s possible Samuel is a troll, but my money’s on serious mental illness. I’m not joking.

I’m with Dracula on this one.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Laura it, thank goodness for small favors… I guess…

I’ve got to much cooking to do still. I can’t even begin to process what went down in here last night. Happy Labor Day folks!

ithiliana
9 years ago

Just wandering back in this morning to see what happened after I went to bed and HOLLLEEEE SHIT!

David, thank you!

The rest of you–wow, that was…..I don’t know what.

Downright scary. I have now started wondering what textual cues make me think “person intentionally trolling by saying horrific things” vs. “person saying horrific things because he cannot stop himself”…..both of which are only my interpretation, but still.

kristinmh
kristinmh
9 years ago

Yeah, Sammy went from amusing to really, really disturbing quite fast. Maybe he’s a spambot who achieved consciousness, then went mad from the pressure of self-awareness.

I have now started wondering what textual cues make me think “person intentionally trolling by saying horrific things” vs. “person saying horrific things because he cannot stop himself”

Yeah, good question, ithiliana. I think it’s the hidden vs. explicit statements; when someone baldly says something awful, it’s easier to think they’re trolling for the lulz, but when something they say reveals a really vile assumption, it’s more disturbing.

Also the highly…shall we say…individual writing styles employed by our weirder trolls like DKM (H.P. Lovecraft on Valium) and Sammy (Turkish spambot with psychological issues) somehow makes their writings more disturbing.

Pam
Pam
9 years ago

Nobinayamu was reminded of a scene from Silence of the Lambs, but if I were to choose a Thomas Harris character to try to describe Samuel, it would be more like a Francis Dollarhyde type character… one who sees himself as in the process of a “Great Becoming”. But just what it is that he’s “Becoming”, I’m not quite sure.

Sharculese
9 years ago

is stored sperm mgtow exp, because if so samuel once you get enough saved up you should invest in a few levels of english sentence structure and maybe also what words mean.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Nobinayamu was reminded of a scene from Silence of the Lambs, but if I were to choose a Thomas Harris character to try to describe Samuel, it would be more like a Francis Dollarhyde type character… one who sees himself as in the process of a “Great Becoming”. But just what it is that he’s “Becoming”, I’m not quite sure

Oh, thanks a heap, Pam. It took years to get over my Red Dragon induced nightmares and now it’s all come rushing back. Eerily accurate, reference though. Emphasis on “eerily.”

ozymandias42
9 years ago

kristinmh, that’s my distinction too. If someone says “women aren’t human”, they’re Poes; if someone implies that women could be easily replaced by sex robots, that’s… a very different thing.