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creepy men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny nice guys PUA rape rapey reddit sexual harassment

If at first you don’t succeed, grope her

This might work, actually.

Say what you will about the dedicated PUAs (Pick-Up Artists) of the world: at least they sometimes actually talk to real human women. The guys in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, I’m not so sure about.

It’s kind of sad, sometimes, to read the plaintive requests for advice on Seddit (as it’s known) from college guys who’ve fixated on some girl in some class of theirs, and want desperately to learn the secret formula to get into her pants. These aren’t guys who’ve mastered the art of “negging” women with clever little mini-insults (a favorite PUA technique); these are guys who haven’t quite grasped that you have to actually talk to a woman in order to ask her out.

Take this query, recently posted there:

My suggestion?

Write “coffee?” on your forehead, and stand in front of her. Point at your forehead if necessary.

So, yeah, I’ve been banned from Seddit.

Look, I feel for the guy. I’ve been that guy.

But just think of it from the point of view of the girl. Some guy you’ve never spoken to, some guy who doesn’t know a thing about you other than you make him feel funny in his pants, approaches you out of the blue and … slips you a note?

But really, the problem there isn’t the note. Well, part of the problem is the note, But the main problem is that college dude has never spoken to her before. As anyone who has watched Seinfeld knows well, “coffee” means “sex.” Going up to a woman you’ve never spoken to before and asking her out is a bit like saying “hi, you make me feel funny in my pants. I would like to put my penis in you. Perhaps we could chat a bit first. Though, clearly, I don’t care what’s in your actual brain, because here I am asking you out based on nothing more than the fact that you cause that aforementioned feeling in my pants.”

Pro-tip for lonely guys: remember that women are actual human beings also.

Now, this poor Sedditor got some good basic advice from the crowd there, basically boiling down to: figure out an excuse to talk to her before class, and see how it goes.

Now, Seddit may be mildly useful in giving this sort of basic advice to the truly hapless. But it doesn’t seem to be very good at getting across the notion that women are human.

Indeed, there was a strikingly similar question posted in Seddit a couple of days ago: a guy who wanted to ask out the only girl in his engineering class. His post, in stark contrast with the note guy, was bristling with PUA acronyms and lingo: the girl was an “HB8” (Hot Babe that he rated an 8 of 10 on the hotness scale);  he was on the lookout for IOSs (Indications of Interest) from her, and so on and so on.

But his strategy was strikingly similar to that of the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) with the note: he was going to walk up to her after class and ask her out for dinner. But he was planning to add one more “technique” to his approach: “kino.” In PUA-speak, kino means touch.

So, yeah, that’s what he learned from all his study of advanced PUA-oloogy: just start touching her!  Women are eager to jump into bed with guys who come up to them out of the blue and start groping them. (The post itself was deleted after it got linked to in the ShitRedditSays subreddit, so no link.)

Trouble is, this guy is not the only one getting the message that Pick-up artistry is all about invading a woman’s personal space and “escalating” until she literally fights you off or given is. This is, in fact, the basic message of the PUA who calls himself Gunwich – a man who not that long ago (allegedly) shot a woman I the face after she refused his advances.

And, yes, pressuring a woman until she gives in, or up, is one way of getting in her pants. It’s also, you know, rape.

In recent days a number of Sedditers have posted advice that is little more than a how-to of date rape.  A number of instances were pointed out in ShitRedditSays, and were deleted by the Seddit moderators. It’s clear this is damage control; a number of regulars on ShitRedditSays have been banned from posting in Seddit – many of whom had actually never posted there in the first place.

Here’s a discussion of one copy-and pasted date rape guide that got deleted before anyone made a screencap.

The Seddit mods say this is “fringe” stuff that doesn’t reflect how most Sedditors think. Then how is it that some of the creepiest comments  get dozens of upvotes? Take this Sedditor’s advice on how to get inside a woman’s house (and then her pants) that I managed to screencap before it was deleted:

Now, there is plenty of PUA material that is not rapey. Manipulative, sure. Dopey, absolutely. But not rapey. A good Pick-Up Artist, in theory at least, should be able to tell when a woman is interested and when she isn’t, and move on when she isn’t.

But it’s clear that many Sedditors aren’t learning that whole “if she’s not interested, move on” thing. They’re learning: “if she’s not interested, pressure her and manipulate her, and wear her down. And be sure to touch her. Sorry, “kino escalate.”

They’re not learning empathy. They’re learning stupid human tricks. And, worse, they’re learning to ignore a woman’s “no,” to treat it as what PUAs call LMR – that is, Last Minute Resistance. And that’s pretty much  a formula for date rape.

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samuel2112
9 years ago

Ithiliana Friedan was radical. She was a WGTOW
Ithilian and women out there what is a WGTOW? to you?

A wgtow could be a woman who chooses to go her own way to be single, to not have kids, to go against the norms of society.To be a leader to act masculine to not to answer to anyone,to be independent of a man. What is a WGTOW?Tell me ladies

Pecunium
9 years ago

Samuel: What I meant was Health really.

Then say health. Because my spirtuality has nothing to do with my sex life.

My health… has nothing to do with my spirituality.

Speaking of health, having at least two orgasms a week is one of the best ways to reduce your risk of prostate cancer.

A man is expected to have lots of heterosexual sex and always to be on the chase for it. If he’s not, he’s not a “real man”, and considered less masculine. This pressure can make sex a lot less pleasurable.

That is why (temporary) celibacy can be so liberating for a man. Then you have the time to sort out inner desire from outside pressure, feel secure in your masculity without the need to be validated by sex and know that when you have sex, it is because you really want it</i.

This is nonsense.

Some men, sure; because people are not cookie cutter identical.

But not all men. Saving your sperm, and worrying about your chakras and all that may give you some sort of focus. Me, I get the same thing from sharpning knives, playing music, cooking, planning meals, and… sex.

I’m a dude and have it in me to be a feral pit bull.Men have a very powerful sex drive.

I’m a man too. The pit bull*… has nothing to do with sex, or lack thereof.

As to your being a scorpio, it’s right up there with chakras and saving your semen… if it makes you feel better about yourself, power to you, but it has no basis in fact.

kristin: Astrologers have known about the precessional shift for centuries, and it’s, “adjusted for. He is a Scorpio.

*re pit bulls, they are wonderful people dogs. They do need a lot of socialising to be able to play well with other dogs, since they were bred to be used in dog fights. One of the things the breeders did was to cull dogs which showed aggression toward humans, which makes it very hard to train them to be “attack dogs” and so the one’s which have been so trained tend to be psychologically traumatised.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Fifth, my belief in how men and women act might not be as progressive as the interchangable genders preached by the almighty feminist gospel. I realy on history, although my history seems to be defunked as well. Hell, I don’t even view history in terms of female oppression. Which only goes to show how backward I am.

You didn’t fucking answer what I said.

You called Molly Ren, a human being, the living image of the God you claim to worship, a fucktoy with a pulse because she has sex and blogs about it. You called Ozy, likewise human, likewise divine, devoid of ethics because she’s had sex nine times in her life. But when Doctress Julia didn’t want to get hit on by junkies, you spin out into a frothing rage, saying she’s above herself, that she should take what she’s given. And when women don’t put out, you say they’re “teasing men” and deserve to get raped. Women literally can’t win with you.

Your beliefs are evil. Justify yourself, if you can.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
9 years ago

“I am so tired with people dissing pitbulls. They can be lovely dogs, though they need a lot of training.”

“And you know, having worked in animal rescue the past fifteen years or so, I am so tired of manly balled manly men projecting all this crap on “pit bulls” (which is not even an actual breed! a number of breeds are sometimes called this), and all the abuse which comes in the wake of those projections–the various bull dogs and bull terriers I’ve met are all lovely dogs who climb in my lap and lick my ears and give me smoochies.”

YES!!!

I had a wonderful pit/lab mix for fourteen years and she was one of the best dogs I’ve ever had. Someone tried to make her a fighting dog, and when it didn’t work they threw her out of a car and broke her leg. Fourteen years, and the only time she was ever aggressive with dogs OR people was when a dog attacked her and her companion pooch – she didn’t hurt the attacking dog, just made it clear to him that he would if he took one more step towards her.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

You’re just stupid.

the stupid have it in them to be just. so far, nwoslave has not demonstrated that capacity.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

I feel threatened by half the population. It sounds crazy but we’re all a little bit nuts

Now tell us again, Samuel, about how you used to be sexist a month ago but totally aren’t anymore.

And then tell us about how you want to provide therapy and advice for people who have real-life problems in their relationships.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Samuel: See what I mean about NWO? We didn’t even get into the fact that Jews only maintain thier numbers through massive proselytisation.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

the stupid have it in them to be just. so far, nwoslave has not demonstrated that capacity.

Do you have a better term? Something short, easy to spell, that’s punchy and descriptive? I like fuckwit, but stupid seems to fit, too.

samuel2112
9 years ago

People here don’t know astrology? There is some truth to reading charts. I just mention I am a Scorpio.

I mean Feral dogs not Pit bull. I love dogs. I am only using a metaphor?

kristinmh
kristinmh
9 years ago

Honestly Kristin if I admited I feel threatened by women do women women feel threatened by a celibate man? A man who chooses to go his own way>be honest

I can only speak for myself, but I do not feel in the least bit threatened by celibate men. I have a feeling this is the majority position. Why on earth would women feel threatened by celibate men? What are you doing to us by being celibate? How can your celibacy possibly harm us? This is positively baffling.

And thanks for admitting that you feel threatened by women. It was already abundantly clear, but it’s nice to be open about these things.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Samuel: If you mean feral, say feral, for fuck’s sake. If you can’t even use the words you mean, how the fuck do you expect to have any kind of communication?

Pecunium
9 years ago

Samuel: People here don’t know astrology?

Some of us do, that’s why we dismiss it.

Spearhafoc
9 years ago

There is some truth to reading charts.

No there isn’t.

I am only using a metaphor?

I don’t know, are you?

Your English is terrible. Just saying.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
9 years ago

“I can only speak for myself, but I do not feel in the least bit threatened by celibate men. I have a feeling this is the majority position. Why on earth would women feel threatened by celibate men? What are you doing to us by being celibate? How can your celibacy possibly harm us? This is positively baffling.”

I think it can “harm us” in the sense that we’re not getting all his manly manly sperm. This is supposed to make us feel bad, or something.

samuel2112
9 years ago

Its funny Kristine read my blog on Gay men. I have heard from women I am not kidding that they feel threatened by gay men or celibate men inasmuch as they have no sexual power over men. No matter how sexy a woman is how hot she is she has no power over a gay man.
A celibate man may be included in this,
Listen I see your gravatar photo,Kristine and if it is not fake you are a beautiful woman.
Do you really have to post your picture on a gravatar? It is a threat to me but I see in your picture a human being with fears,hurts,joys,love and hapiness,hobbies.Not a sexual object I want to have sex with. I am i n a precarious position

kristinmh
kristinmh
9 years ago

I think it can “harm us” in the sense that we’re not getting all his manly manly sperm. This is supposed to make us feel bad, or something.

Oh.

Samuel, I’m already pregnant. Your manly manly sperm is no good to me. I can’t get pregnant again for at least another six months and will probably wait a good deal longer than that, and I think I’ll stick with my husband’s sperm if that’s OK with you thank you very much.

Molly Ren
9 years ago

“Do you really have to post your picture on a gravatar? It is a threat to me but I see in your picture a human being with fears,hurts,joys,love and hapiness,hobbies.Not a sexual object I want to have sex with. I am i n a precarious position”

Creepiest thing I’ve read on Man Boobz, hands down.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Oh, come on! I kind of love this new Samuelized speech. Let me try!

What I’ve never been able to understand is why bacon is so uncomfortable to wear as pants and yet so voluptuous in the springtime.

Of course, what I mean by “what I’ve never been able to understand is why” is “tonight.”

And by “bacon” I mean me.

And by “uncomfortable to wear” I mean “having difficulties.”

And of course “as pants” means “not making fun of Samuel.”

And the rest of it was a typo, and I actually just meant to repeat that I really find Samuel ridiculous.

kristinmh
kristinmh
9 years ago

Jesus Christ. Why would I want to have power over a gay man, Sammy? What do you think women are doing? Do you think we walk around thinking, “I’m going to get that guy over there all worked up just for the hell of it!”? You say you see me as a human being with “fears,hurts,joys,love and hapiness,hobbies” but you don’t seem to understand that MY EXISTENCE DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND GIVING MEN BONERS, WHETHER FOR GOOD OR FOR EVIL.

I only very rarely think about giving men boners, to be honest.

Tell you what, if my headshot (that’s what my gravatar is, it’s the same picture I use in pretty much all my profiles, because it’s my goddamn headshot and I want to be recognizable on the internet) gives me power over you, can I use that power to make you go away? Because your last post was seriously creepy.

samuel2112
9 years ago

Kristin this is absolutely why I absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely refuse to cave in to objectifying women. I lose my focus. I choose celibacy. I would rather die than lose my celibacy and the radiance and stength I have now. I am bisexual by the way Kristin

Spearhafoc
9 years ago

Its funny Kristine read my blog on Gay men. I have heard from women I am not kidding that they feel threatened by gay men or celibate men inasmuch as they have no sexual power over men. No matter how sexy a woman is how hot she is she has no power over a gay man.
A celibate man may be included in this,
Listen I see your gravatar photo,Kristine and if it is not fake you are a beautiful woman.
Do you really have to post your picture on a gravatar? It is a threat to me but I see in your picture a human being with fears,hurts,joys,love and hapiness,hobbies.Not a sexual object I want to have sex with. I am i n a precarious position<blockquote?

It's funny, Kristin. Read my blog post about gay men. I have heard from women – and I'm not kidding about this – that they feel threatened by gay and celibate men because they have no sexual power over them. No matter how sexy a woman is, she has no power over a gay man. The same is true for celibate men.

Listen, I see your Gravitar photo, Kristine, and if it's not fake, you are a beautiful woman. Do you really have to post your picture on Gravitar? It's a threat to me because I see in your picture a human being with fears, hurts, joys, love, happiness and hobbies – not a sexual object I want to have sex with. I'm in a precarious position.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Do you really have to post your picture on a gravatar? It is a threat to me but I see in your picture a human being with fears,hurts,joys,love and hapiness,hobbies.Not a sexual object I want to have sex with. I am i n a precarious position

No one here is responsible for your penis but you, bucko. If you can’t control it, you shouldn’t be in a feminist space – you know, what with all the WOMEN around!

samuel2112
9 years ago

Kristinmh for me to admit as a man I am bisexual is freeing. I am attracted to men too So I am choosing not to objectify men as well Kristinmh it is not just women. I have hung out with Gay men Kristin.Iove gay men. I feel safe around gay men in a way.NOMAS is gay affirmative.Gay men and straight men are joining forces as NOMAS

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Holeeeeee fuck.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

I would rather die than lose my celibacy and the radiance and stength I have now. I am bisexual by the way Kristin

Oh my fucking GODS, you need to stop this. It is creepy and disgusting and… lots of other bad things I can’t find words for right now. No one wants to know who or what turns you on, no one cares what turns you on or if you can’t control your erections. JUST STOP!

samuel2112
9 years ago

Kristinemh proverbs 5 sums you up I think your a seductress Im scared of you Kristinemh Im scared of you,You are the only one here on manboobz a women posting a photo cause your pretty and want men to see that. Tjhis is my misogyny speaking out

My son, listen to my wisdom. Turn your ear to my understanding. 2 So you may know what is good thinking, and your lips may keep much learning. 3 For the lips of a strange woman are as sweet as honey. Her talk is as smooth as oil. 4 But in the end she is as bitter tasting as wormwood, and as sharp as a sword that cuts both ways. 5 Her feet go down to death. Her steps take hold of hell. 6 She does not think about the path of life. Her ways go this way and that, and she does not know it.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

I kind of want to ignore how actually disturbing that is, so I’ll just move on from there and ask Samuel from the future if, as a bisexual man, he’s able to drive in a car pool with men, or if he’d be afraid of getting a boner then too.

Lauralot
Lauralot
9 years ago

You know, I identify as asexual and have been celibate for 22 years now. Last I checked, I don’t feel like a glowing moon goddess with kaleidoscope eyes. But I guess it’s not special for women, is it?

Spearhafoc
9 years ago

What the hell is happening here?

I’m actually a little terrified. This is some serial killer shit.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Samuel: I don’t need to hear this. No one needs to hear this, you’ve verging on stalking and threatening. So maybe you should quit while you’re ahead.

Lauralot
Lauralot
9 years ago

Samuel, you sound like a serial killer and you are doing nothing to further anyone’s understanding of your madness. Just stop.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Spearhafoc: I hope we’re not witnessing an unstable personality breaking up. I hope this guy is just some attention-starved reject who will be very surprised by the restraining order…

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
9 years ago

What the holy fuck is he going on about now?

Samuel, go your own way. Right now. Just go.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

David: You might want to hold onto anything Samuel tries to post. Just in case.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
9 years ago

Thank you, David.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

I just came out to get a glass of juice and decided to take a peek. I gotta be honest with ya. I’m feelin mighty alpha right about now. wink, wink.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

NWO: Color me unsurprised that stalking and objectifying women turns you on. Maybe you can cordially STFU about that.

felixBC
felixBC
9 years ago

Samuel, get help. Now would be good.
* blinking at spectacular meltdown *

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

David, are NWOslave and Samuel posting from the same IP address?

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@KathleenB

Don’t ply your wiles on me babe, I’m savin up my radiant power sperm.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

It’s possible they’re both the same troll.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@VoiP

No voip, I assure you my computer skills are even more pitiful than all my other skills. IP address, lol! It’s all klingon ta me.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

Trust me Voip, nomas worship ain’t my style. Ima misogynist remember?

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

NWO: By not addressing the substance of my comment, namely that you find stalking and objectifying women to be a turn on, I’m just going to assume that you admit such things turn your crank.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

VOIP: I’ve had sex with nine partners! Not nine times in my life!

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@KathleenB

What post had this supposed, “substance?”

Besides I’m tired.

Hey Oz, you set voip straight, that’s 9 notches on the ole bedpost! It seems your fellow feminist, samuel is on a mission. Like I said, I’m feelin pretty alpha. Maybe more feminism will help me personally. It’s him or me baby!

Lauralot
Lauralot
9 years ago

Regardless of if Samuel and NWOslave are the same person, I feel that if making creepy, racist, pedo remarks is grounds for banning, calling someone a “fucktoy with a pulse” ought to be considered a bannable offense too.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Like I said, I’m feelin pretty alpha. Maybe more feminism will help me personally. It’s him or me baby!

Luckily that’s not actually true. Or even close to it.

*showers anyway*

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

NWO: My comment:

Color me unsurprised that stalking and objectifying women turns you on. Maybe you can cordially STFU about that.

You responded by telling me not to come on to you (as if – married, remember?).