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creepy men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny nice guys PUA rape rapey reddit sexual harassment

If at first you don’t succeed, grope her

This might work, actually.

Say what you will about the dedicated PUAs (Pick-Up Artists) of the world: at least they sometimes actually talk to real human women. The guys in Reddit’s Seduction subreddit, I’m not so sure about.

It’s kind of sad, sometimes, to read the plaintive requests for advice on Seddit (as it’s known) from college guys who’ve fixated on some girl in some class of theirs, and want desperately to learn the secret formula to get into her pants. These aren’t guys who’ve mastered the art of “negging” women with clever little mini-insults (a favorite PUA technique); these are guys who haven’t quite grasped that you have to actually talk to a woman in order to ask her out.

Take this query, recently posted there:

My suggestion?

Write “coffee?” on your forehead, and stand in front of her. Point at your forehead if necessary.

So, yeah, I’ve been banned from Seddit.

Look, I feel for the guy. I’ve been that guy.

But just think of it from the point of view of the girl. Some guy you’ve never spoken to, some guy who doesn’t know a thing about you other than you make him feel funny in his pants, approaches you out of the blue and … slips you a note?

But really, the problem there isn’t the note. Well, part of the problem is the note, But the main problem is that college dude has never spoken to her before. As anyone who has watched Seinfeld knows well, “coffee” means “sex.” Going up to a woman you’ve never spoken to before and asking her out is a bit like saying “hi, you make me feel funny in my pants. I would like to put my penis in you. Perhaps we could chat a bit first. Though, clearly, I don’t care what’s in your actual brain, because here I am asking you out based on nothing more than the fact that you cause that aforementioned feeling in my pants.”

Pro-tip for lonely guys: remember that women are actual human beings also.

Now, this poor Sedditor got some good basic advice from the crowd there, basically boiling down to: figure out an excuse to talk to her before class, and see how it goes.

Now, Seddit may be mildly useful in giving this sort of basic advice to the truly hapless. But it doesn’t seem to be very good at getting across the notion that women are human.

Indeed, there was a strikingly similar question posted in Seddit a couple of days ago: a guy who wanted to ask out the only girl in his engineering class. His post, in stark contrast with the note guy, was bristling with PUA acronyms and lingo: the girl was an “HB8” (Hot Babe that he rated an 8 of 10 on the hotness scale);  he was on the lookout for IOSs (Indications of Interest) from her, and so on and so on.

But his strategy was strikingly similar to that of the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump) with the note: he was going to walk up to her after class and ask her out for dinner. But he was planning to add one more “technique” to his approach: “kino.” In PUA-speak, kino means touch.

So, yeah, that’s what he learned from all his study of advanced PUA-oloogy: just start touching her!  Women are eager to jump into bed with guys who come up to them out of the blue and start groping them. (The post itself was deleted after it got linked to in the ShitRedditSays subreddit, so no link.)

Trouble is, this guy is not the only one getting the message that Pick-up artistry is all about invading a woman’s personal space and “escalating” until she literally fights you off or given is. This is, in fact, the basic message of the PUA who calls himself Gunwich – a man who not that long ago (allegedly) shot a woman I the face after she refused his advances.

And, yes, pressuring a woman until she gives in, or up, is one way of getting in her pants. It’s also, you know, rape.

In recent days a number of Sedditers have posted advice that is little more than a how-to of date rape.  A number of instances were pointed out in ShitRedditSays, and were deleted by the Seddit moderators. It’s clear this is damage control; a number of regulars on ShitRedditSays have been banned from posting in Seddit – many of whom had actually never posted there in the first place.

Here’s a discussion of one copy-and pasted date rape guide that got deleted before anyone made a screencap.

The Seddit mods say this is “fringe” stuff that doesn’t reflect how most Sedditors think. Then how is it that some of the creepiest comments  get dozens of upvotes? Take this Sedditor’s advice on how to get inside a woman’s house (and then her pants) that I managed to screencap before it was deleted:

Now, there is plenty of PUA material that is not rapey. Manipulative, sure. Dopey, absolutely. But not rapey. A good Pick-Up Artist, in theory at least, should be able to tell when a woman is interested and when she isn’t, and move on when she isn’t.

But it’s clear that many Sedditors aren’t learning that whole “if she’s not interested, move on” thing. They’re learning: “if she’s not interested, pressure her and manipulate her, and wear her down. And be sure to touch her. Sorry, “kino escalate.”

They’re not learning empathy. They’re learning stupid human tricks. And, worse, they’re learning to ignore a woman’s “no,” to treat it as what PUAs call LMR – that is, Last Minute Resistance. And that’s pretty much  a formula for date rape.

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Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Neurochemicals are released by any pleasant activity (in fact, any activity). They’re how your brain feels anything at all. Sex releases pleasant neurochemicals, but so does singing or taking a shower or going for a job. Your brain cannot “burn out” on its own chemicals, which is good, because you can’t stop it from releasing them.

Total obsession with sex is unhealthy, but not the way heroin is unhealthy–it’s a psychological problem, not a chemical dependency.

ithiliana
9 years ago

@KathleenB:

*cues eerie music and fades into shadows, eyes glowing softly”

@Samuel 2112: One last point: googling “the myth of sex addiction” and clicking on the first link is NOT research.

From now on, the only thing I have to say to you is:

Alan Rickman is hot!

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

[quote]Studies have shown that many men are addicted to porn. Some women are addicted to romance novels bodice rippers/[/quote]
[b]What. Studies. Where?[/b]
You asshat. You don’t understand how making truth claims on scientific matters works, do you?

samuel2112
9 years ago

Ithiliana and Holly are mocking me for trying to be celibate. However, as I said I am not certain but as much as many men today need Viagra Levitra Cialis , with my celibate lifestyle when I do get into a committed monogamous relationship I doubt I will need any of that artificial boner shit. I will be a good lover.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Alan Rickman is hot!

This I heartily second.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

It’s vampires.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Samuel: You’re being mocked for being an incoherent, misogynistic asshole who knows nothing about science, not for trying to be celibate.

Sharculese
9 years ago

samuel nobody is mocking you for being celibate. people are mocking you for your absurd pseudo-scientific claims, your lecturing people on subjects where you clearly dont have a lot of a experience, and your insistence of generalizing your personal experiences to universal truths.

also, the part where you want to be rewarded for not being a rapist.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Aren’t vampires supposed to be sparkly?

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

neurochemicals like dopamine, norepinephrine and endorphins, producing a “rush” or a “high.” Sexual outlets are a very convenient and powerful way for the brain to feel pleasure and cope with boredom or mental burn-out. In fact, These activities are initially thought of as fun, exciting, and an easy and sometimes cheap way to get a thrill.
3.

So does chocolate. Physical addiction isn’t generally an issue unless an outside source provides you with (generally massive amounts of) the chemicals themselves; the way physical addiction works is that you stop making chemicals yourself, and rely on that outside source just to get the ordinary amount of that. That’s why you have addicts go through withdrawals; they actually lack whatever the hell it is they were taking provides them. In the past two decades we’ve seen an increase in the amount the term ‘addiction’ is used, to the detriment of serious attempts to treat problems.

None of what you’ve copyspammed is a motherfucking study. You are pig ignorant of how to support a scientific claim, aren’t you?

samuel2112
9 years ago

Holly said Neurochemicals are released by any pleasant activity (in fact, any activity). They’re how your brain feels anything at all. Sex releases pleasant neurochemicals, but so does singing or taking a shower or going for a job. Your brain cannot “burn out” on its own chemicals, which is good, because you can’t stop it from releasing them.

Total obsession with sex is unhealthy, but not the way heroin is unhealthy–it’s a psychological problem, not a chemical dependency.

I disagree an orgasm releases so much endorphins oxycodone and other brain chemicals the high is higher than cocaine. It can be physically addicting

Listen if any women r men here are struggling with sex addiction, rape, sexism, physical abuse,spousal abuse, hit me a PM or email, I am here to help. Although I am a bit neurotic at times I have some good wisdom. I am affiiated with NOMAS

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Samuel, if you get peripheral vascular disease, hypothyroidism, have to take blood pressure or antidepressant medication, or just plain get old, it may not matter how many wanks you’ve skipped.

Erectile dysfunction isn’t a matter of “whoop, used up all my boners.”

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Sharculese: Yeah, that demanding a cookie for realizing that a woman is a human being part is just gross.

ithiliana
9 years ago

@Sharculese: Definitely! I totally support Samuel in being celibate and encourage him to keep glowing happily away all by his lonesome. It’s the best thing for ALL.

Anything I can do to make life better for women!

ithiliana
9 years ago

KathleenB: aren’t vampires supposed to be sparkly

Only at TWILIGHT! ahahahahahahah!

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

I have some good wisdom.

Claiming wisdom is a surefire way to tell the world you’re a gibbering idiot.

Lauralot
Lauralot
9 years ago

Samuel: You have no wisdom whatsoever, good or otherwise. I would rather speak to a cardboard box about any issues in my life than listen to what you have to say.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

Only loser vampires are sparkly.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Samuel, if your brain releases oxycodone naturally, it is… different than most other brains, let me put it gently. (Let me put it not-gently: that is not a neurotransmitter, it’s a drug. Your body does not produce oxycodone. Your brain does not produce any chemicals during orgasm that it doesn’t produce at other times. Getting addicted to your own orgasms is as likely as getting addicted to breathing.)

Listen if any women r men here are struggling with sex addiction, rape, sexism, physical abuse,spousal abuse, hit me a PM or email, I am here to help. Although I am a bit neurotic at times I have some good wisdom. I am affiiated with NOMAS
Holy fuck, you have the biggest ego I’ve ever seen, and I’m saying that on a thread where NWO has posted.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

ithiliana: I’m so sunburnt, it actually hurts to laugh. But that got one anyway.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Tapetum is made of sperm!!! Huh! I did not know that.

Um, also, Samuel from the future one month ago was unable to talk to women. Today, he is able to ask them if they have hobbies and stuff.

Impressive work, my lad, but still … you do realize that you’re miles behind where most men are in the process of interacting with women as people, don’t you?

Also, too, maybe I’m reading this wrong, but I don’t think anyone’s mocking you for being celibate. We’re mocking you for holding incredibly stupid opinions, having a very loose grasp on facts, and being narcissistic and generally ridiculous, but not for being celibate.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

NWOSlave, to Molly Ren:

Sitting there typing how them bad ole PUAs treat women like objects is laughable. You’re a fuckdoll with a pulse. That’s all you are. So that’s what you’ll be treated like. What? You want to be praised for being a whore?

Christ, this is vile. I think this may be the worst shit I’ve ever seen on this blog. and you call yourself a Christian.

NWOSlave, to Ozy:

Ozzy dearest, you wallow in shit and piss which you consider sex. Your blog consists of you talking about your pussy. You’re a millionaires daughter whose toughest choice is wether to wallow in piss or shit or both for this evenings festivities. You have no ethical beliefs. Your art is promoting menstrual finger painting. Your “truth” is whatever you “feel” at any given point in time. The “business” you run is talking about your pussy on your blog. You’re going to spend your entire life in college living off of daddies money. And you’re lecturing me?

How can you tell Ozy isn’t ethical, because she’s had sex with nine people in her life? Nine people. As far as James Bond is concerned, that’s Thursday.

You hate women for…I don’t know, existing and shit, with their bodies and not having sex with men, but as soon as they do you believe they’re literally unethical. There is no way for women to win here. Your beliefs suck. You suck for holding them.

Joanna
9 years ago

“Only loser vampires are sparkly.”

Gah! Fuck Twilight and it’s sparkly vampire bullshit! I can’t believe sparkly vampires is a thing now. Grr….

ithiliana
9 years ago

Listen if any women r men here are struggling with sex addiction, rape, sexism, physical abuse,spousal abuse, hit me a PM or email, I am here to help.

I vote this offer as one of the FUCKINGCREEPIEST comments I’ve seen on this blog, certainly in the top five.

*goes off to grill a bunch of hot dogs in an eeeeeevvvvvvvvviiiiiiiiilllllllll feminist fashion*

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Actually, Samuel, I do want your advice on sexism.

You see, I have this friend who’s such a sexist he won’t even talk to women. All he can talk or think about when women are around is sex, and he keeps talking about how he’s tempted to rape them but he’s a really great guy for not doing it. I think he’s managed to talk to a woman once in his life–although he said he was still thinking about her breasts and about sex when she started talking to him, and he made this big deal about how she had a personality just like people do–but mostly he refuses to interact with women at all.

How can I deal with my sexist friend?

samuel2112
9 years ago

Holly we all have ego’s .We would not be human. What I am saying is if a women or man here needs help with these issues that NOMAS helps with. As an MRA I can help. I do not want sex with anyone or favors. I see all of you women here and men as people. I can help.I am a good listener I have insight

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

VioP: Holy crap, I didn’t see the fuckdoll line. Was that on this thread? Because… damn, I knew NWO is a vile jackass, but that’s really, really sick.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Samuel: Call me crazy, but if I or someone I know is in an abusive situation, I’m more likely to send them to the cops or RAAIN than to someone who expects a cookie for viewing a woman as a human being.

Joanna
9 years ago

“VioP: Holy crap, I didn’t see the fuckdoll line. Was that on this thread? Because… damn, I knew NWO is a vile jackass, but that’s really, really sick.”

Yeah I’m starting to think he’s just a character at this stage.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Joanna: I suppose I’d be happier if NWO is a character – it would mean that there’s one less vile fuckwit spewing online…

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Meant to say ‘one less REAL vile fuckwit.’ Go me.

samuel2112
9 years ago

Sharcluese wrote harculese: Yeah, that demanding a cookie for realizing that a woman is a human being part is just gross

Sadly a lot of men throughout history have not seen women as humans but as sex objects. Look at all the rapes throughout history?

I am trying to be friends with women. I care about you. That is why i have not left manboobz, and why I as an MRA MGTOW has aligned with NOMAS a cool organization of men against sexism and sexual violence against women.You van hate me but I am not hating you, John Lennon had a song imagineImagine there’s no heaven

It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today…

Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…

You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
sharing all the world

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Listen if any women r men here are struggling with sex addiction, rape, sexism, physical abuse,spousal abuse, hit me a PM or email, I am here to help. Although I am a bit neurotic at times I have some good wisdom. I am affiiated with NOMAS

Yes, if anyone would like to talk to a person whose qualifications include: (1) calling the NOMAS number and talking to someone, (2) paying dues to NOMAS, (3) hearing of a famous feminist writer, and (4) being able to stomach talking to women for the last month — PLEASE email Samuel. And then report back here. We like a good laugh.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

Sharculese: Yeah, that demanding a cookie for realizing that a woman is a human being part is just gross.

That isn’t all he said, he said that he realized his interlocutrix was:

a human being on this earth with problems, ambitions, or hobbies, just like any man.

The emphasis is different.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Samuel, do not copy-paste things into the comments. Not entire blog posts, not entire songs, not giant chunks of blog posts.

Either keep your quotes to a couple lines or just link us.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

Nine people in two years! It’s much more impressive than you’re making it sound. 🙁

If you want to talk, you can PM me. I’m much more helpful than Samuel is. Or, even better, you can go talk to a real therapist instead of a fake one on the Net.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

No, Samuel, I wrote that. You wrote about how wonderful you are for having a conversation with a woman and realizing that she’s an actual human being. In many feminist circles, your tone would be interpreted as ‘asking for a cookie’ – asking to be treated like some special little snowflake for doing something that all decent people should do. You are not a special little snowflake deserving of a cookie, you’re a sexist, homophobic asshole with a shaky grasp of scientific principle, manners and grammar.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

i don’t even want to make fun of him, i think there’s something wrong with his brain (in addition to the sexism), it’d be unethical

samuel2112
9 years ago

ozy I am not a qualified therapist. I just know NOMAS has resources to help. That is all OZY I did not imply I am a therapist. I can help men too as well

Snowy
Snowy
9 years ago

I, on the other hand, am composed of many many special snowflakes and demand cookies.

Joanna
9 years ago

“You van hate me but I am not hating you,”

Hate is such a strong word. Confused and concerned would be more apt.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Samuel: Also, if you are trying to be friends, waltzing into someone else’s space and demanding comments, yelling at people for not responding and acting like a general asshole is NOT the way to do it.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Oh, Samuel, if you’re an MRA leader, they are in trouble. You couldn’t lead your way out of a wet paper bag.

“Listen if any women r men here are struggling with sex addiction, rape, sexism, physical abuse,spousal abuse, hit me a PM or email, I am here to help.”

This, righ there? Is some grade-A egotistical creeptastic horseshit. Where do you get balls that big? I know, not jerking off. You are not qualified to to counsel anyone.

Also, I’m not here to do your homework and look at websites and give you feedback. Not here to help you at all.

Finally, leave John Lennon out of this. Hasn’t he suffered enough?

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

I, on the other hand, am composed of many many special snowflakes and demand cookies.

Well, we’re OUTTA cookies! We didn’t expect such a run.

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

*bakes cookies for Snowy*

None for you, though, Samuel. These are for people who aren’t ridiculous assholes.

Joanna
9 years ago

I didn’t hit anyone with a 2×4 today. Do I get a cookie? ;D

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I talked to a man today and I didn’t look at his penis and I wasn’t particularly surprised when he turned out to be a person who talked about person things.

Do I get a cookie?

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Joanna: FINE, but only because you asked nicely. And aren’t an asshole.

VoiP
VoiP
9 years ago

I talked to a man today and I didn’t look at his penis and I wasn’t particularly surprised when he turned out to be a person who talked about person things.

No because dudes are automatically people. Didn’t you get the memo?

samuel2112
9 years ago

hellkell wrote, righ there? Is some grade-A egotistical creeptastic horseshit. Where do you get balls that big? I know, not jerking off. You are not qualified to to counsel anyone

Forget it I take my words back. I am not qualified to counsel anyone.
Actually I can get sued if I give wrong counsel.
contact http://www.nomas.org/taskgroups_main

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