Are MGTOWers all a bunch of closet romantics? In a recent discussion of some research which concluded that men value kissing and cuddling more than women in long-term relationships, a number of the regulars on MGTOWforums.com confessed that they … actually missed the affections of women.
BeijaFlor reported
I’ve gotten along for decades without sex OR cuddling. And I miss the cuddling, the snuggly affectionate feel of a loving partner, FAR more than I miss the sex. That’s one reason why I don’t call the call-girls; all they offer is the sex.
Golem added:
I’m going to have to agree with the touch thing, too. Hell, I can cut my own hair, but I’ll still drop the cash to have it done with a wash and a scalp massage just for the contact.
That’s actually just really … sad.
Even Nightstorm2516 — the legendary theorist of the Mousetrap Vagina – offered a poignant confession of his own:
I don’t know anyone elses reasoning for cuddling over sex but my own personal reason would be a huge deprivation in my life of affection. I get zero from women so thats a no-go for me. My male friends think hugging is gay via society programming so men show affection by “bumping fists” and “being cool”. My dad IS anti-affection. My mom showed me some affection, but she was so busy working to the bones, I don’t think I ever got enough. My sister and brother never showed me any love.
I think I value cuddling just because its something I never got to do. 26 Years without affection.. dam thats a long time.
That’s actually sort of heartbreaking – at least until I remember that this is the same guy who once argued that vaginas were like strange venom-injecting mousetraps:
This poison … creeps into the male brain and literally makes him stupid, it shuts down his intellect, and activates all his hormones for more pussy. She’s got the bastard. Now she can slowly but surely take all his wealth and keep pumping more poison into him.
It sucks – I mean really, genuinely sucks — that you got no affection from your parents, dude. But if you view women as monsters secretly plotting to entrap you with their vagina-poison, you’re not likely to get a lot of affection from them.
If you want to live a life that has more to it than bitterness and misery, get yourself off of MGTOWforums.com and find a good therapist.
And whatever you do, don’t listen to avoidwoman, MGTOWforums’ budding futurist, who thinks he’s got a woman-free solution to the affection deficit: perfectly realistic robogirls, which he predicts will be here in 2030. (Let’s just hope they’re a bit more reliable than the Cherry 2000 model.)
Yep, we’re back to the topic of sexy robot ladies.
In several comments in the thread, starting with this one, avoidwomen explained his waiting game:
I personally don’t even care for sex and I never want it. I would love romance, such as cuddling and kissing but not with human women, only women substitutes! …
I will get the chance to cuddle as much as I want by 2030 with robogirls and probably earlier when VR technology becomes advanced enough for the simulation to feel realistic. …
The few times I got the chance to be romantic with women, I really enjoyed it and never thought of going “further” or being “sexual” whatsoever. …
Then we got a reminder of just why he’s not getting affection from real, live human women:
Nowdays I just avoid women like the snakes they are! …
I am no white knight in real life, I will not protect a woman. But when VR and robogirls come, I will hold them in my arms. My robogirl will protect me outside the house and inside the house, I will cuddle and hold her. 🙂
Someday, his robotic princess will come.
God being AntZ sons must suck, they have be dealing with all the problems and travails of childhood and teenage masculinity and sociality all on their own because they can’t go to their father for help with any concrete, real world issues. All they’ll get instead is either a sermon on the coming of the all male matrix, or how women are the greatest ill in the world then say: a deluded father who spends all his time commenting on the internet about inventions he’ll can’t ever create while treating their own mother like shit.
Honestly, if you were just a single, “forever alone” loser like JAUN or Slavey or MRAL all your talk about the misogyny Singularity would be hilarious, but the fact that you have kids makes you, in my opinion, the worst troll on this site to date (even with that banal ‘Meagan’ whatever-it-was).
And while I know it’s perfectly possible for kids to pick themselves up out rough situations, it would certainly be easier with an actual father beside them, instead of some deluded loser with sad visions of being a “warrior for malekind”.
(Though what’s stopping me from being completely sad and contemptuous about this is the very real possibility of those two sons and wife might not even exist. Given how AntZ has waxed on about the creation of manufactured realities, maybe he already has a prototype method for doing so? If he did though, I think he just plagiarized the ability from bums who talk to themselves.)
Antsy makes me sad. Antsy has apparently spent so much time working himself up that he is now alienated by default from 50% of the world. This post and this thread just make me sad.
Here’s a tip, Antsy: your issues are not about the genders.
Does anybody else remember this guy talking about a gendercidal war of annihilation? Was I imagining that? Because you could pretty much switch the male and female around in Antsy’s assessment of feminism and you’d get Antsy’s views.
Nob, you’re supposed to say “What power?”
I agree with Ozy, I find them pitiful and sad. Infuriating often, but pitiful, too. WRT the one man who talks about his male friends not being physically affectionate because of societal programming: that’s one reason I’m a feminist, to free women and men from rigid gender rules.
And the one who is looking forward to having a fembot in nineteen years. Dear Lord, what kind of a life is it when you’re looking forward to getting affection from a robot in nineteen years? As ugly as his misogyny is, that’s pitiful.
Johnny B: here is my thread: http://manboobz.forummotion.com/t321-game-without-hate It’s got a bunch of women (and some other men) also posting advice in it, some using my format and some not. I do agree with a lot of the advice there, but there have been complaints about the alleged “negativity” of some of the other posters. If that’s a problem for you, I’d much prefer you to respond to the content of my posts rather than complain about what other posters are doing.
Kilo: The thing is, there are lots of relationships that include cuddling but not sex, like “flirty friends” or “affectionate friends” or sometimes even “supportive friends.” If as these posters say, sex is less important to them than finding a woman to cuddle with, they should avoid PUAs like the plague. PUA tactics lead to only two results” sex, or no relationship. There’s no opportunity to form a cuddly friendship. Also, It’s not clear to me how cuddly it’s possible to be and maintain your “alpha” facade.
My advice is designed first and foremost to create mutual affection and attraction with as many people as possible. That’s a social asset you can parlay into sex with some ffort, but can parlay into cuddles extremely easily.
They are the wielders of the burning blade of feminist man-hate.
I think I see another Magyc, the Gendering Card…
“I want cake. But I do not want to have to gather the ingredients, bake the cake, frost it or do anything at all to obtain the cake. Instead, I will just whine I do not have cake.”
Cake! I want cake. Why oh why do I have no cake? I have all the cuddles I want, but no cake. 🙁
I dunno, I’ve heard rumors that the cake is a falsehood. But you didn’t hear it from me!
I feel bad for people who don’t have cake, in general.
I feel less bad for people who don’t have cake and hate bakers.
>> >>They are the wielders of the burning blade of feminist man-hate.
>> I think I see another Magyc, the Gendering Card…
Sword of PEACE AND FREEDOM?
Some of these same guys at MGTOW forums love to taunt women with “Enjoy being alone with all your cats!”. They think women should feel loneliness as a punishment for not catering to their narcissistic desires. Now when they talk about living a lifetime of loneliness, I’m torn between feeling sad for them and thinking “Well it serves them right for being such douchebags”. I really doubt they would offer any sympathy to any woman feeling the pain of loneliness, yet in spite of everything many of us can’t help but feel sympathy for them.
>>> How would feminists react to an anti-child abuse campaign that featured young FEMALE children dressed in gang-like attire and instructed parents to “teach your daughters young and teach them often not to abuse or murder children”.
Yeah, they probably also think that those “Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them” t-shirts are innocent and hilarious.
Kendra, I suspect the problem here is, we all know that cats are wonderful, yet very demanding, companions.
It truly sucks to be alone in the world; however, if you are lucky enough to share your home with one or more cats, then you are srsly NOT alone!
“I don’t think MGTOW want a kitten. They seem more like puppy people. Cats are too independantly minded for the sort of people who get into MRA/MGTOW.”
True. Besides, cats are what chicks like, along with tea and books. None of these things is explicitly French and gay, but they’re all still kind of infra dig, taken separately or together.
(Cats!! Tea!! Books!! Hot baths!! The horror!! The horror!!)
Damn it, now I really want eat cake and drink tea while reading books with by cat. Well, I suppose all I’m missing is cake. I could make do.
Orion,
I certainly see your point about the possibility of friendships that include cuddling. I’m not sure that it is a good idea for everyone, though; personally, I can see myself worrying too much about my cuddling friend worrying too much about me using the cuddling as a front to manipulate her into having sex with me. After all, that’s what the cultural stereotype says about people with y chromosomes. The only real way out of this would seem to be establishing that a mutual sexual attraction is present and the possibility of sex generally appreciated, if not necessarily in exactly that setting.
PU ‘orthodoxy’ is also not quite as single-minded and allows for results other than immediate sex, admittedly often with future success with other people in mind: If you end up having a friendship with a woman, it will increase your odds picking up other people in the future through social proof, and she could even wing for you. As an additional bonus, being with friends improves your state, and should improve your inner game long-term. To de-pickup-speak this: If other people/women (such as your friend) are willing to hang out with you, you are more likely to be perceived as a generally cool person by people/women you don’t know, and your friend can help you getting into contact with them. Plus, you have more fun when you are with friends and thus are more likely to be in a good, relaxed mood, which makes it easier to get to know other people, and in the long term you will feel more confident and secure in yourself when you have many friends.
I’m also not sure whether there really is a problem with an “alpha” facade and cuddling, unless maybe if one takes a Roissy-style point of view. First, I don’t think that being affectionate and being dominant are mutually exclusive. I’m thinking of blues dance leaders, for example, who can be full of manly, dominant leadership and sensual, caring affection at the same time. Second, once your alphaness is properly established, showing that you have a soft side should only increase that, at least within reason.
Again, this is mostly keyboard jockeying on theory plus a little timid experimentation; I’m not a PUA, mainly because of some minor ethical concerns and a major helping of approach anxiety (and probably a good number of other bonus anxieties). And I have read and generally enjoyed your posts on your forum thread, so thank you for that.
Johhny said:
Yes, let’s argue against people by making up things we think they think.
You probably also think it’s a good idea to put grapes in your nose while singing the national anthem. .
Oh crap, did I end that with the dreaded MRA two-dot period??!
AGGHHHHHH..
I don’t cuddle with people who hate me, or see me as less than human.
bacon cake?
@David – “Oh crap, did I end that with the dreaded MRA two-dot period??!
AGGHHHHHH..”
You can’t take it back now! YOUR SECRET IS OUT.
Nope. Hated that tshirt as did many others. Try again, Johnny_B.
Johnny_B, no one here liked the shirt, but feel free to think otherwise as usual.
“Yeah, they probably also think that those “Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them” t-shirts are innocent and hilarious.”
Wrong. There are a lot of gross and stupid t-shirt designs out there, including ones for small children with nipple tassles and things that say, “I’m a tits man.” And it’s not feminists putting this crap out there.
“>>> How would feminists react to an anti-child abuse campaign that featured young FEMALE children dressed in gang-like attire and instructed parents to “teach your daughters young and teach them often not to abuse or murder children”.”
Dude, how in the heck do you interpret gang activity from those photos?! You’ve got one kid in a hooded sweatshirt and another holding a basketball. Is it the hooded sweatshirt? Is it the fact that one boy looks like he might be Hispanic? This says a heck of a lot more about YOU than anything else. The campaign was called “Coaching Boys Into Men” and used athletic images to suggest that boys should be taught to respect girls and women. Oh, how outrageous, preaching tolerance and empathy. And you not only take away the message that boys are dehumanized, but that they’re dressed up like gang members. WOW.
Those T-shirts were created by a man named Todd Goldman. He’s a colossal douchebag. In addition to being a sexist creep, he has a long history of ripping off artists and claiming their work as his own. For the interested, there’s an exhaustive rundown here: http://www.miketyndall.com/todd_goldman/
So, yeah, not a fan of that guy. But hey, at least he’s an equal-opportunity sexist: his other T-shirt slogans include “No Means No–Well Maybe If I’m Drunk” (which Feministing successfully campaigned to have discontinued) and “Gold Digger: Like a Hooker but Smarter.” Oh, and one time he ripped off the Special Olympics logo, just to prove what a classy guy he is.