Are MGTOWers all a bunch of closet romantics? In a recent discussion of some research which concluded that men value kissing and cuddling more than women in long-term relationships, a number of the regulars on MGTOWforums.com confessed that they … actually missed the affections of women.
BeijaFlor reported
I’ve gotten along for decades without sex OR cuddling. And I miss the cuddling, the snuggly affectionate feel of a loving partner, FAR more than I miss the sex. That’s one reason why I don’t call the call-girls; all they offer is the sex.
Golem added:
I’m going to have to agree with the touch thing, too. Hell, I can cut my own hair, but I’ll still drop the cash to have it done with a wash and a scalp massage just for the contact.
That’s actually just really … sad.
Even Nightstorm2516 — the legendary theorist of the Mousetrap Vagina – offered a poignant confession of his own:
I don’t know anyone elses reasoning for cuddling over sex but my own personal reason would be a huge deprivation in my life of affection. I get zero from women so thats a no-go for me. My male friends think hugging is gay via society programming so men show affection by “bumping fists” and “being cool”. My dad IS anti-affection. My mom showed me some affection, but she was so busy working to the bones, I don’t think I ever got enough. My sister and brother never showed me any love.
I think I value cuddling just because its something I never got to do. 26 Years without affection.. dam thats a long time.
That’s actually sort of heartbreaking – at least until I remember that this is the same guy who once argued that vaginas were like strange venom-injecting mousetraps:
This poison … creeps into the male brain and literally makes him stupid, it shuts down his intellect, and activates all his hormones for more pussy. She’s got the bastard. Now she can slowly but surely take all his wealth and keep pumping more poison into him.
It sucks – I mean really, genuinely sucks — that you got no affection from your parents, dude. But if you view women as monsters secretly plotting to entrap you with their vagina-poison, you’re not likely to get a lot of affection from them.
If you want to live a life that has more to it than bitterness and misery, get yourself off of MGTOWforums.com and find a good therapist.
And whatever you do, don’t listen to avoidwoman, MGTOWforums’ budding futurist, who thinks he’s got a woman-free solution to the affection deficit: perfectly realistic robogirls, which he predicts will be here in 2030. (Let’s just hope they’re a bit more reliable than the Cherry 2000 model.)
Yep, we’re back to the topic of sexy robot ladies.
In several comments in the thread, starting with this one, avoidwomen explained his waiting game:
I personally don’t even care for sex and I never want it. I would love romance, such as cuddling and kissing but not with human women, only women substitutes! …
I will get the chance to cuddle as much as I want by 2030 with robogirls and probably earlier when VR technology becomes advanced enough for the simulation to feel realistic. …
The few times I got the chance to be romantic with women, I really enjoyed it and never thought of going “further” or being “sexual” whatsoever. …
Then we got a reminder of just why he’s not getting affection from real, live human women:
Nowdays I just avoid women like the snakes they are! …
I am no white knight in real life, I will not protect a woman. But when VR and robogirls come, I will hold them in my arms. My robogirl will protect me outside the house and inside the house, I will cuddle and hold her. 🙂
Someday, his robotic princess will come.
No, but we were both definitely above your level.
That is so hilariously dishonest it actually gave me a chuckle, thanks. I gave my views, same as everyone else, only mine were met with insults and abuse by you and the gang. Your entire arguing strategy is basically the equivalent of a group of baboons howling and flinging their crap at anyone perceived as an intruder, then congratulating each other when the intruder has been driven away. But I’m not about to rehash everything now, as everyone can see and judge for themselves, even if they won’t admit it out loud for fear of being ostracized from the “Manboobz family”.
And where would you be without your buddies backing you up and helping you shout down the opposition? Well, you’d have to leave manboobz for that and that’s not gonna happen too soon, is it.
Am I the only one who feels really bad for these guys? I mean, they’re misogynists, yes, but lonely sucks. I know what it’s like to crave friendly human touch and be completely unable to get it without seeming weird or creepy, to snuggle a pillow and pretend as hard as you can that it’s a human being, and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
I always thought that given his posts, Ozymandias was one of the smarter/better-adjusted/more empathetic folks here. Seems I’m being proven right.
Not really Johnny-they are complaining about having no one to cuddle while at the same time bashing the people they would cuddle with. It is not unreasonable to ask that someone not bash you when they ask you for something.
It waxes and wanes. I’m generally pushed to pity when they pontificate on the meaning of love. That truly breaks my heart, that they’re so broken as to talk about love as if it can’t exist, to tell themselves that it’s just an illusion to salve their loneliness. I want to weep for them., and sometimes do. More than that, I want to shake them, to tell them they’re wrong, that love exists, that it doesn’t have to be that way.
Juxtaposing it all with the hateful bile is extremely confusing. Sometimes, irritation crowds out my empathy, because there’s only so much tolerance I have for being told I’m the source of their lovelessness. Sometimes, and especially when love is itself said to not exist,I’m just… sad.
Are you being compelled to post here? Is someone holding your goldfish hostage or something? I don’t understand.
Johnny_B, if the manboobz crew are so mean and awful to you, get the fuck on. Seriously. Kick rocks.
Nobody is interested in whether or not we’re being nice enough while we mock misogyny and your constant, whining, refrain about bullying and so forth -especially when you refuse to address the substantive arguments that rebut your assertions- is not only misappropriated, it’s tedious as shit.
Is it just me, or does avoidwomen sound like an asexual who is not aromantic? He never wants sex ever and is not interested in it…but he wants romance.
Yeah though, wanting affection from a group of people you clearly despise just makes me whip out the smallest violin…
You gave your unsubstantiated, evidenceless opinion, and maintained it in the face of actual data demonstrating it wasn’t the case. I am not nice, even when engaging someone seriously, but I can at least support a truth claim. You are, at best, one of those empty headed little twits that thinks all opinions are equal, even when one has evidentiary support and the other… does not.
No, my arguing style is dataspam and insults; others were more conciliatory in tone but unsurprisingly did not lend your contra-reality beliefs meaningful support. You proved you don’t care about reality by focusing only on the insults, even though you were earning them by being so willfully ignorant.
I’d imagine it’s where I was for a couple of years, trying and sometimes succeeding to expand atheism by helping it be inclusive of others. Imagining an echo chamber where none exists is so passe
As for the original post, I get sad when I hear anyone describe how lonely they are and especially how they’re suffering with an absence of touch. Touch is important and, if not exactly underrated, it can be under appreciated. It’s easy to discount its significance when you have an abudance. Its absence can wear on you to the point of distraction when you do not. I’ve always referred to it as being “flesh-starved”.
I think Rutee and Pecunium, however, have “hit the nail on the button” as Meller would say. Demonizing and dehumanizing the very people you want to cuddle with is not only incredibly fucked up, but a huge disconnect from reality. Where are you, that you cannot figure out that your chances of having a woman who wants to cuddle with you will increase exponentially when you stop hating women.
I mean, just look at Zarat. By his own account he waited until after he’d met and married a woman who loved him to decide that women -as, you know, a group- are inherently defective. Zarat, have you told your wife, this woman who loves you and is raising sons with you, that you long for the day when you can have a digital version of her that has no agency?
And, once again, please speak for yourself and stop projecting your bullshit onto the rest of humanity. I have no desire to live in a world seperate from men. That sounds like a nightmare.
@ David Futrelle
I’ve read a lot of Nightstorm2516’s posts and, from what I understand, this kid has had a particularly shitty time as of late, if not for his entire life. I’m not going into details because I think that the things he has posted and shared about his personal life on MGTOW forums belong on MGTOW forums. He’s trying to get his life in order and learning to start looking out for himself instead of letting other people take advantage of him. Mousetrap Vagina theory aside, I really don’t think that:
“I don’t know anyone elses reasoning for cuddling over sex but my own personal reason would be a huge deprivation in my life of affection. I get zero from women so thats a no-go for me. My male friends think hugging is gay via society programming so men show affection by “bumping fists” and “being cool”. My dad IS anti-affection. My mom showed me some affection, but she was so busy working to the bones, I don’t think I ever got enough. My sister and brother never showed me any love.
I think I value cuddling just because its something I never got to do. 26 Years without affection.. dam thats a long time.”
has anything to do with “Mocking Misogyny” or that you have any business posting this up here on your blog and I request that you kindly edit your post so that the above quotation is removed.
@Johnny B: All I got was “I miss hugging”.
CONTEXT! Remember the context.
That’s why David supplied the poison vagina comment. And the fact that these are from MGTOW — they gave up teh evil wimminz, remember!
So, yes, in that context, it’s impossible to think that they are willing to put anything into a relationship with an actual human woman — and would prefer cuddlebots.
Makes me wonder what came first, the hatred or the loneliness? Probably depends on the individual. In my experience it was loneliness combined with lack of friendly contact, and the result was not really hatred, rather something like alienation. It stopped when I got more superficial friendly contact, though the loneliness remains. If some things happened differently, I might have well ended up in their place, so I feel their pain, and it hurts.
Orion,
well some people really only want to get laid quickly, and for the rest the idea is, I think, that sexual attraction is necessary for an affectionate non-family relationship between members of the respectively appropriate sex. By determining the presence of this attraction as quickly as possible, you can spend your time on those people where a relationship is more likely to be successful. That’s my understanding of the theory behind it at least.
Johnny– David’s original post did a fine job of expressing sympathy for these guys’ loneliness while at the same time pointing out that their attitudes toward women make their complaints somewhat less than endearing, not to mention counterproductive.
If I heard a woman complaining that men don’t hug and cuddle her enough, but also that she thinks men are dangerous monsters who inject poison through their penises, I’d have the same problem feeling sorry for her situation.
@Ozy – “The only people their GTOW punishes is themselves.”
That is so very true.
It’s also worth noting that the original thread isn’t all men talking wistfully about cuddling. There’s still plenty of the usual:
Men want younger and hotter women not older. Thats why.
Sex important to women? Only if you are an alpha “bad boy” who can give her gina tingles or you are a rich sucker overpaying for her used up pussy.
A woman views sex as leverage and your wallet as an oil field with her name on it.No man escapes this truth.
Well it is very strange that only few notice that cuddling is preliminary to sex, akin to Pavlov’s dog salivating at the prospect of a cookie. If cuddling wouldn’t had led to coitus in your past, would you miss it ? Like cuddling and blue balls, miss it much ? …Hence the carrot of commitment is the cookie of Pavlov’s dog and when the cookie jar is empty like in marriage, sex nearly stops with the husband.
Regrettably the a lot of the past and 99.99998% of current and the totality of the next generation of women are being raised instead to rip a man off as ruthlessly and legally as possible.A con artist makes for a poor life partner ,but the logical understanding that modern women are unfit for commitment doesn’t tame the desire any more than the logical realization by a shipwrecked sailor that drinking saltwater is deadly will cure his thirst.
Awwww, poor sweethearts, why don’t women want to snuggle and hug them? (And good LORD, guys, for the last time, nobody wants your damn money! Sheesh!)
In all seriousness, Qwert, if Nightstorm really is a troubled person working through serious problems, he needs to stop associating with people who think and feel like this. The very next post after his comment about how he’s never gotten enough physical affection is this:
By the stories and experiences taking female cuddling as gestures of affection is akin to believe boa constrictors strike their prey to lighten it’s day.
Yeah, that’s the kind of feedback that’ll help a guy work through his problems in a healthy way.
“Zarat, that’s just creepy. I can respect wanting no human interaction yourself, but to say that your dream is for society to crumble, and for every person to just be in an individual world with no interaction with anything but a simulacrum of a person is just… depressing, I guess.”
Society will not crumble. Men will interract with each other, both at work and in social settings. Men will be happier and more productive. Male society will work splendidly. We will live without fear. We will live without persecution. We will live in liberty.
What women do with women’s society, is women’s business.
“Awwww, poor sweethearts, why don’t women want to snuggle and hug them? (And good LORD, guys, for the last time, nobody wants your damn money! Sheesh!)”
Yeah, the money thing is yet another example of their confirmation bias when it comes to all of this “battle of the sexes” bullshit. I know three women who are supporting husbands who flat out refuse to even look for work, let alone hold on to a job for more than a few months at a time. The economy is bad, but one of them will get a low income job and then quit a few weeks later because it was “boring” or “he didn’t like it.” In the meantime she has two jobs to support the household. If I held the same myopic view of humanity as these MRAs and MGTOW-ers I would take these examples as proof that all men are like this. But I know this simply isn’t the case.
@ shaenon
“In all seriousness, Qwert, if Nightstorm really is a troubled person working through serious problems, he needs to stop associating with people who think and feel like this.”
For certain he’s got a lot of issues to deal with, and a lot of misplaced anger. He’s clearly got a lot to learn, and I admit, that MGTOW forums is not a very a healthy place to be for him right now. In all honesty I’m actually a bit worried about him. I’m no therapist so I wouldn’t know what to suggest. In fairness to David he did express some sympathy for him, genuine of otherwise.
Men and women will finally be rid of each other forever.
I am sure your wife also anticipates this.
Every time I think AntZ can’t make my brain flat-line any harder, he outdoes himself. Has he always been like this, or has it been a progressive, learn-as-he-goes sort of thing?
@AntZ
…have you ever had female friends?
I’m serious. I don’t know what kind of social circles you you run in, but in all of mine men and women get along just fine. They have conversations. They go bowling. They work together. Regardless of your feelings on sex and romantic relationships with women, the idea of gender-segregating friendships and work relationships it very alien to any reality I know.
Has he always been like this, or has it been a progressive, learn-as-he-goes sort of thing?
I think he’s a troll-bot.
I understand if it is just a guy who is socially awkward. I do not understand if the guy hates all women and thinks we suck.
Antz might be misguided when it comes to actual societal trends, but he could sure as hell write some great sci-fi novels.
Also, Antz, what do you think of my assertion that there are *already* people of both genders who spend a great deal of time in elaborately constructed fantasy worlds? They’re called “authors”, “bloggers”, and “cosplayers”. You could have the life of your dreams RIGHT NOW!
I’m not the one who brought it up again, you can thank Rutee for that. But I do agree that it’s tedious.
The “not addressing the argument” charges are specious at best. Nobody can make and support an argument while being shouted down by a gang of bullies.
Lots of people can do that, Johnny B! You just need a tougher hide…