Are MGTOWers all a bunch of closet romantics? In a recent discussion of some research which concluded that men value kissing and cuddling more than women in long-term relationships, a number of the regulars on MGTOWforums.com confessed that they … actually missed the affections of women.
BeijaFlor reported
I’ve gotten along for decades without sex OR cuddling. And I miss the cuddling, the snuggly affectionate feel of a loving partner, FAR more than I miss the sex. That’s one reason why I don’t call the call-girls; all they offer is the sex.
Golem added:
I’m going to have to agree with the touch thing, too. Hell, I can cut my own hair, but I’ll still drop the cash to have it done with a wash and a scalp massage just for the contact.
That’s actually just really … sad.
Even Nightstorm2516 — the legendary theorist of the Mousetrap Vagina – offered a poignant confession of his own:
I don’t know anyone elses reasoning for cuddling over sex but my own personal reason would be a huge deprivation in my life of affection. I get zero from women so thats a no-go for me. My male friends think hugging is gay via society programming so men show affection by “bumping fists” and “being cool”. My dad IS anti-affection. My mom showed me some affection, but she was so busy working to the bones, I don’t think I ever got enough. My sister and brother never showed me any love.
I think I value cuddling just because its something I never got to do. 26 Years without affection.. dam thats a long time.
That’s actually sort of heartbreaking – at least until I remember that this is the same guy who once argued that vaginas were like strange venom-injecting mousetraps:
This poison … creeps into the male brain and literally makes him stupid, it shuts down his intellect, and activates all his hormones for more pussy. She’s got the bastard. Now she can slowly but surely take all his wealth and keep pumping more poison into him.
It sucks – I mean really, genuinely sucks — that you got no affection from your parents, dude. But if you view women as monsters secretly plotting to entrap you with their vagina-poison, you’re not likely to get a lot of affection from them.
If you want to live a life that has more to it than bitterness and misery, get yourself off of MGTOWforums.com and find a good therapist.
And whatever you do, don’t listen to avoidwoman, MGTOWforums’ budding futurist, who thinks he’s got a woman-free solution to the affection deficit: perfectly realistic robogirls, which he predicts will be here in 2030. (Let’s just hope they’re a bit more reliable than the Cherry 2000 model.)
Yep, we’re back to the topic of sexy robot ladies.
In several comments in the thread, starting with this one, avoidwomen explained his waiting game:
I personally don’t even care for sex and I never want it. I would love romance, such as cuddling and kissing but not with human women, only women substitutes! …
I will get the chance to cuddle as much as I want by 2030 with robogirls and probably earlier when VR technology becomes advanced enough for the simulation to feel realistic. …
The few times I got the chance to be romantic with women, I really enjoyed it and never thought of going “further” or being “sexual” whatsoever. …
Then we got a reminder of just why he’s not getting affection from real, live human women:
Nowdays I just avoid women like the snakes they are! …
I am no white knight in real life, I will not protect a woman. But when VR and robogirls come, I will hold them in my arms. My robogirl will protect me outside the house and inside the house, I will cuddle and hold her. 🙂
Someday, his robotic princess will come.
I don’t see this as “aww, poor woogies.” I just think it’s another thing they want women to give them with no reciprocation and no respect.
All they’ve done here is increase the list to “sleep with us, raise our kids (or abruptly give up all interest in the kids, depending what we want), keep our houses, treat us like superior beings, and give us snuggly wugglies.”
“I want cake. But I do not want to have to gather the ingredients, bake the cake, frost it or do anything at all to obtain the cake. Instead, I will just whine I do not have cake.”
Yeah therapy might help with these guys.
O_O
WHY AM I IN MODERATION *cries*
….at least my new gravatar is pretty 😀
One thing I don’t get is that if these guys are such obvious losers, wouldn’t the fact that they want robot girlfriends and to avoid actual women be actually a good thing? So why mock them for it?
btw, Holly and Elizabeth – I’m enlightened. Next time I hear a woman saying she misses the physical affection from a relationship, I’ll just tell her she’s “whining” and “obviously wants something from men with no reciprocation or respect”.
God, and you accuse others of having no empathy. You are such a mirror image of MRAs it’s almost funny.
It is kind of a good thing, Johnny B. Except that:
A) Robot girlfriends that would satisfy them don’t exist (and probably never will, because being satisfied doesn’t seem to be in most of these guy’s emotional vocabularies), so this talk is really just about intensifying their bitterness against actual women
and
B) Even if it would be doing us a favor, it’s still ridiculous.
Johnny – If the woman doesn’t put any affection into the relationship, then I agree. (And with some individual women, this is a valid criticism.)
But more often, women (and some men!) are “whining” because they’re putting a lot of energy in and not getting anything out. That’s a valid concern and a different thing from “I want to be hugged and told I’m special just because I went to all the trouble of existing.”
That’s a valid concern and a different thing from “I want to be hugged and told I’m special just because I went to all the trouble of existing.”
OK, except I didn’t see that being said at all, or even implied, in the first 3 quotes posted by David. Why did you get the impression that they’d be completely unwilling to reciprocate? I’m not being glib, I actually read those threads and although some of the comments were pretty disgusting, I didn’t see the “I want to be hugged and not do anything in return” vibe. All I got was “I miss hugging”.
Aside from being stupid and ridiculous, and therefore inherently mockworthy?
No, because them avoiding women because they’re terrible people isn’t actually a good thing. It’s a less bad thing than them bothering women. A *Good thing* would be them not being horrible people.
You’re such an unoriginal troll. Now you’re doing the “YOU’RE JUST AS BAD AS THEM” malarkey? After the “OH CRUCIFY ME FOR DISAGREEING WITH YOU” saw? God, what’s next? I’m not sure whether to take bets on it, because it’ll alter the outcome for us to start making predictions on your next cliche’d troll-ism, but damned if I don’t want to.
We’re not mocking them for wanting affection, we’re mocking them for hating women so much that they think robogirls that will probably never exist are going to solve their problems. THAT is mock-worthy.
Of course you didn’t. You don’t pay attention to anyone you claim to pay attention to. Protip: Holly was not just looking at the quotes on this page.
Let’s see if you can connect the dots yourself. My money’s on no.
“I’m not sure whether to take bets on it, because it’ll alter the outcome for us to start making predictions on your next cliche’d troll-ism, but damned if I don’t want to.”
What the hell, next up is “you’re not being civil.”
This is why I find it funny that the PUAs are so popular, since their system is generally all about getting to sex as quickly as possible, shutting down a lot of opportunities for affectionate relationships in the process. If what they miss is cuddles and affection, they should really, REALLY look at my “game without hate” thread because my “system” definitely leads to large volumes of hugs, head-scritches, back rubs, and so on.
I got “I want to be hugged and not do anything in return” from the fact that they want robots to do it. Unless you think they’re really looking forward to loving those robots back and treating them right.
“A) Robot girlfriends that would satisfy them don’t exist (and probably never will)”
People who talk about robot partners have very little imagination.
Love, affection, partnership, trust, encouragement, compassion, etc. all manifest in the human MIND. There is no need for a physical object, such as a robot (or a physical person) to fulfil a psychological need.
Computer-brain interface is what is called for. Interactions with virtual partners WILL be possible, soon. When this happens, I believe WOMEN will be the first to take advantage of this life-altering technology. Soon after (when the technology is mature enough to produce images that are realistic enough so that little imagination is needed) men will follow.
Men and women will finally be rid of each other forever.
Rutee: Coming from such a cliched, one-note cartoon feminist as yourself, those accusations are downright hilarious.
Orion, can you provide a link to that thread? I’d like to read it. 🙂
“I know you are, but what am I”? Really? Damn, missed my guess. Ah well!
Zarat, that’s just creepy. I can respect wanting no human interaction yourself, but to say that your dream is for society to crumble, and for every person to just be in an individual world with no interaction with anything but a simulacrum of a person is just… depressing, I guess.
I got “I want to be hugged and not do anything in return” from the fact that they want robots to do it. Unless you think they’re really looking forward to loving those robots back and treating them right.
Sounds like you’re conflating all the posts as if they were being said by the same person. Only one of them actually talked about the robot thing.
Besides, I’d love my robot. I’d give her an oil bath daily and change her batteries and upgrade her firmware and shine her up with an old piece of cloth and then she’d say “oh, you missed a spot” and we’d both laugh… and then I’d grow old and die and she would have to leave and make her way alone in the world. But she’d be ready. Yeah, she’d be ready.
““I know you are, but what am I”? Really? Damn, missed my guess. Ah well!”
No comment. I’ve had better arguments with my 12-year old cousin.
I’m not surprised by that research. If all they cared about was sex, the Fleshlight or blowup dolls already exists. They wouldn’t need to pine for sexbots. You only need human substitutes with AI if you need to fulfill a need for some intimacy, no matter how screwed up it is that you’re trying to fulfill that only by going for the physical aspect of intimacy and not the psychological one.
I’m surprised your 12 year old cousin didn’t outwit you either.
But seriously, you were treated with substance once, even by me. You put on a facade of caring about reality, and evidence, so you were engaged seriously, if caustically. You proved you can’t handle substance, reacting to evidentiary support with baseless assertions of your rightness. Knowing you had nothing to say to the evidence, you whinged, because reality didn’t support your positions; the best you could do was whine about that causticness. You insisted we must just be making stuff up, and had not one thing to say about the data. Don’t be surprised if you’re treated as aught but a fool; you’ve demonstrated nothing else.
But hey, where would the world be without fools like you serving as an object lesson of the dunning-kruger effect?
Oh Johnny B: The difference between this:
Next time I hear a woman saying she misses the physical affection from a relationship, I’ll just tell her she’s “whining” and “obviously wants something from men with no reciprocation or respect”.
and this:
I think I value cuddling just because its something I never got to do. 26 Years without affection.. dam thats a long time.
Is that the latter is because he thinks the people whom he wants to cuddle him, are evil, loathesome, and worthy of nothing but his scorn.
So the comment that people he hates, aren’t giving him the cuddle-wuddles, isn’t something which really deserves empathy. If he wasn’t full of hatred and bile, then I’d have some sympathy.
But the reason he’s sleeping in an empty bed is because he intentionally made it so.
Am I the only one who feels really bad for these guys? I mean, they’re misogynists, yes, but lonely sucks. I know what it’s like to crave friendly human touch and be completely unable to get it without seeming weird or creepy, to snuggle a pillow and pretend as hard as you can that it’s a human being, and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
The only people their GTOW punishes is themselves.