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Again with the 14-year-old girls

Was Aqualung a Men's Rights Redditor?

So a bunch of the regulars on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit have their collective knickers in a twist about dudes getting called “pedophiles” just for saying they think 14-year old girls are hot. Because that’s “ephebephilia,” dontchaknow, not pedophilia! And besides, thingsarebad argues

Normal heterosexual males will generally have sexual attraction for pubescent females of child-bearing age, from puberty till they start to get old and gross (late 20s, early 30s usually haha).

That’s pretty much “eww.” But so is the rest of the discussion, really, from this “joke” about all women being as immature as children to this heavily upvoted claim that feminists have created a “pedo-scare … to criminalize healthy and normal male sexuality,” to  this Evo-Psych-flavored argument for lowering the age of consent.

Is it just me or are dudes who get indignant when people don’t carefully distinguish between ephebephilia and pedophilia just really really creepy?

Is “the right to lust after underage girls without having to feel icky about it” really a Men’s Rights issue? Why this preoccupation with 14-year-old girls, on r/mensrights and Reddit generally?

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PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Thingsarebad: Salic Law ’nuff said.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

[quote]RuteeL I think he’s asking for sympathy. He has drives, and he is suppressing them.

We should be grateful to him, instead we are saying that having these drive (which he striving to suppress) is wrong.[/quote]
I have a hankering for sweets right now anyway; if he REALLY WANTS A COOKIE for being a decent person, maybe I could provide one that has “Is not scum” written in frosting on it. You know, since that’s totally a laudable thing.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Similarly, wit and intelligence in a woman have the effect of increasing my feelings of attraction. By the same token, when I find out that an otherwise attractive young woman is really a girl of 14, my feelings of attraction largely diminish. The very idea squicks me out, and that’s not sexy.

I’m just your run-of-the-mill stupid lady vagina, but I feel exactly the same way. I’ve gotten huge crushes based entirely on what a person has to say (or even write) or how clever and funny they are, and knowing a person’s age definitely impacts my feelings about them. Once I started talking to a young woman waiting with me at the train station about books, who I assumed was college-aged, and she was very smart and enthusiastic about it so I started thinking “hmm, she is adorable~ *want to snuggle*” but during the course of the discussion I found out she was still in high school and my mind just “naturally” switched to “aww, she is adorable! *want to pat on the head*.”

Taking advantage of or hurting someone is repellant to me, and I think it’s impossible to have any kind of sexual relationship with an underage person without hurting them in some way so it’s automatically not sexy to me. I’d much rather nurture or mentor someone who is lovely and likeable and too-young than sleep with them; I would want what’s best for them (which would not be me.)

Molly Ren
9 years ago

Gawd, Anthony Z., you really, really need to get out more.

There are people who kink on all kinds of things which are illegal/impossible/would cause grave bodily harm. There’s people who get off on fantasies about rape, fucking dead bodies, incest, cannibalism, being crushed by a giantess, feeding someone til they become immobile, and many more. In some states basic BDSM is technically illegal, and I think there still might be some sodomy laws somewhere.

Pedophilia is a little-understood fetish which has additionally become a cultural bugbear (it’s where “think of the children!” hysteria comes from, whether or not it’s actually warranted) and I’m sorry about that. But perverts (of which I am one) who have an actual grasp on reality realize that ya know, actually doing this shit is wrong because people aren’t objects that have been put there for you to wank all over, and sometimes fantasies should just remain fantasies. This is what role play, pre-planned BDSM scenes, and Deviant Art are for: ways to get these needs met without, ya know, actually hurting anyone.

So quit acting like we should THANK you for not acting like a complete jerk with no concept of consent, community, or creativity, and realize you’re not the only person with difficult desires in the entire fucking universe.

Kai Kennedy
9 years ago

I had to think about this one, for a second. I’ve seen a few 17 yr old girls that made me think, “It’s probably for the best that I can’t stand teenagers.” I remember when I first saw a picture of my wife when she was a HS senior. She was still hot, even as a 17 yr old. I dunno. Arguing for lowering the age of consent is kind of creepy, regardless.

I have to agree on the whole, “they seem to be overly concerned with being called ephebephiles,” thing. Smacks of, “he doth protest too much.”

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

What am I missing? When on earth did 16 and 17 year old girls become too old?

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

When on earth did 16 and 17 year old girls become too old?

They are old enough to drive, ie. leave. :p

JUANDELACRUZ
JUANDELACRUZ
9 years ago

“Let me tell you something: those riots were about a lot more than just people wanting to loot luxury goods. A lot more.”

Yeah, it was about having a good time! That’s what a majority of the Rioters themselves said when interviewed!

“You don’t understand, so be quiet.”

Fair enough, I suppose, but what is one to think when YOUR OWN DEMOCRATICALLY-ELECTED NATIONAL LEADERS IN PARLIAMENT HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME OPINION AS MINE as is widely reported through YOUR OWN NATIONAL MEDIA. If there is another side to the Riots of 2011, I must say as a non-Brit, they are doing a pretty piss-poor job of getting their message across to the international community.

“But that’s a far cry from people (like TAB, juandelacruz, NWO, etc.) who say the law needs to be changed because some people like children.”

You know, what actually happens is that laws get MORE RESTRICTIVE not less because some people don’t like that some other people prefer to date teenagers. Ex. Japan, where they passed the 1998 Anti-(Teen) Porn and Prostitution Law, which really harmed a lot of normal Japanese guys for engaging in what had been up until that point, standard cultural practice for centuries, even millennia. And this was mainly due to FOREIGN (I.E. WESTERN I.E. AMERICAN) PRESSURE and their notoriously wimpy politicians succumbed to it. As a result, traditional Japanese male sexuality become so demonized and villified so much so that a backlash resulted and there is now a general growing decline in the sex drive of the average Japanese male with regard to “3D women”. If current trends do not change, the Japanese race may very well become extinct in a century. And yet it’s still not enough. Western Feminazi organizations such as the hypocritically named-Equality Now was able to succesfully lobby the Tokyo Assembly to pass the Vice Bill which will decimate the manga/anime/e-gaming industries, the last bastion of Japan’s mojo, so to speak, and the collective castration of the once-glorious nation of Nippon will be complete.

“the idea of making out with a 15-year-old skeeved him out a bit. He kinda broke my heart, but I reckon he was acting honorably. It DOES happen.”

If he really was into you, age would have been nothing but a number.

“Oh wait, isn’t that the majority of 14 year old girls?”

Well, DUH! Obviously, the teenage girls guys go for are the ATTRACTIVE ones i.e. the Cheerleaders and such. It’s not just AGE, it’s AGE PLUS BEAUTY.

“No, actually, that’s simply not true in general, in a number of developed countries.”

Did you actually bother to read my original post? I expressly stated that in the really rich countries of the First World of a lot of Europe and the Anglosphere, it is indeed true that the socio-economic status of males may indeed not matter relatively that much to females anymore. That said, why are we even arguing on this point?

“there’s really good evidence that it’s really not a ‘natural’ thing that is done.”

I consider it natural because in other countries, the natural “Survival of the Fittest” is still the order of business. Not every country has a national social security safety net, you know.

“I suspect you’ll find it’s more common in either countries with massive income inequality, or massive gender inequality, I’m not sure which would be more relevant.”

For better or for worse, even today, this simply remains the sheer majority of humanity…

“that BDSM and Gor aren’t the same thing,”

Semantics! Any one with common sense can clearly see this is splitting hairs. To use an analogy BDSM is to GOR as being closeted is to loud and proud. To pretend otherwise is simply being in denial.

“You’re one of those idiots who thinks they’re hilarious, aren’t you?”

And so what if I am 😀 ? The superior individual creates his (or even her) own joy in life.

“That’s the “age of consent”. Is it perfect? No. Is it the best compromise which can be made, in the interests of protecting the vulnerable? Yeah, I think so.”

In other words, May-December Romeos and Juliets should take care not to get caught, because it’s only criminal if you do get caught as what other people don’t know can’t hurt you hehehehehehe Same old drill as usual, boys and girls hehehehehehe

Arielle Shander
9 years ago

“till they start to get old and gross (late 20s, early 30s usually haha).”

Since when are women in their late 20s to early 30s “gross?” I mean, it’s one thing to have a preference, but to say that women become “gross” once they’re of common marriage age? Er…

On the flipside, I’m pretty sure most teenage girls find creepers in their late 20s to early 30s “gross,” too. So there wouldn’t be a mutual attraction to begin with. ;p

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Semantics! Any one with common sense can clearly see this is splitting hairs. To use an analogy BDSM is to GOR as being closeted is to loud and proud. To pretend otherwise is simply being in denial.

You do know that there are people here who are into actual BDSM, yes? That maybe their experience is worth a bit more in terms of defining words than you handwaving bullshit? So maybe you should STFU unless and until you can acknowledge that someone (a woman) might know more than you do.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Okay, as someone so clearly into BDSM that I put “Perv” in my name, Gor is a subset of BDSM. It’s nothing to do with how loud and proud you are. BDSM is a big umbrella that covers many permutations of hitty/dominatey/tie-y uppy sex, and Gor is one of those permutations. For most Gor players it’s a roleplay, for a few who are not my buddies it’s an actual belief in male superiority, based on some cheesy sci-fi porn books about outer space barbarian maledoms.

I hope that clears everything up?

Also, this:
In other words, May-December Romeos and Juliets should take care not to get caught, because it’s only criminal if you do get caught as what other people don’t know can’t hurt you hehehehehehe Same old drill as usual, boys and girls hehehehehehe
Is not helping your case, because you sound less like an advocate for the men of the world, and more like someone the Commissioner has to send Batman after.

Ginmar Rienne
9 years ago

Why do people respond to some woman-hating loser with, “But I love men! Let me show you how.” ? He’s not here to listen, he won’t believe you anyway, and why are you sucking up to a guy who hates the entire female gender and wants to fuck fourteen-year-old girls? And let’s face it, if he admits to fourteen-year-old olds in public, God only knows what he’d actually do if given the chance.

And the fact is, fourteen-year-olds aren’t that fertile, if that’s the creepy disgusting hill these child molesters are trying to die on. Menstruation and fertility fluctuate wildly after menarche, and even if the girl gets pregnant, she might not be able to safely carry the pregnancy to term. Basically, these guys are justifying “If she’s old enough to bleed, she’s old enough to breed.”

The thing about Titanic is so deceitful, I have to conclude that nobody honorable will use it. “Women and children first” didn’t do the third class women much good, because more of them died than lived. Fifty two out of seventy nine children died in third class as well. Men like TAB will whine about shit like ‘women and children first’ but except for very rich people, a trip on a ship was a once-in-a-lifetime event, so the possibility of giving up one’s life to a woman was rare. And that was supposed to make up for being sexually harassed, denied the vote, beaten, raped, killed by constant pregnancies, paid much less than men, being denied well-paying jobs because they were women, being subjected to a harsh double standard, and being under the thumb of one’s male relatives one’s whole life, all so some guys could talk about chivalry—which they never applied to women beneath them on the social scale. Chivalry is what men whine about whenever somebody points out it’s no substitute for justice, especially justice seized by force and held hostage.

Finally, the numbers alone make MRA claims about the Titanic disaster deceptive. There were roughly sixteen hundred men on the ship, between guests and crew. The rest—about six hundred—-were divided between female passengers, crew, and children. More third class women and children died than did first class men. Guess those lifeboats weren’t as female-dominated as MRAs would like you to believe. Men outnumbered women by roughly two and a half times. There were more of them to die, so the odds alone were against them.

cynickal
cynickal
9 years ago

Yeah, it was about having a good time! That’s what a majority of the Rioters themselves said when interviewed!

Citation needed.

Fair enough, I suppose, but what is one to think when YOUR OWN DEMOCRATICALLY-ELECTED NATIONAL LEADERS IN PARLIAMENT HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME OPINION AS MINE as is widely reported through YOUR OWN NATIONAL MEDIA.

Yep, because if Britian is known for anything it’s drawing national leaders in Parliment from the masses. People who are always in touch with the young, unemployed and destitute.
To quote someone who may know what’s going on right outside their window, “You don’t understand, so be quiet.”

Wisteria
Wisteria
9 years ago

I just don’t understand this.

About once a month, I get stuck in traffic next to the local high school and watch as the students cross the street to go to a mall for lunch. Those high school students look like kids to me. Heck, sometimes I cut through the local college campus on my way to the freeway and most of the undergrads look like kids to me.

I can’t imagine being attracted to one of them. I feel a bit skeevy that I find David Boreanaz more attractive in his ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ days than he is now in ‘Bones,’ and he was 28 when he started appearing in ‘Buffy.’

Forty-year-olds with fourteen-year-olds? Ewwwww.

qwert666
qwert666
9 years ago

@ cynical, Yoon & Juan

The riots were about a number of different things, there are a whole host of problems going on over here at the moment. But, speaking as a UK citizen, and someone who’s been following the riots quite closely: there were a lot of people, from all different backgrounds, racial groups, ages etc. etc. who seemed to be having a pretty good time looting as many luxury electronic and fashion items as they could get their hands on.

I see it, personally, as a sign of the general decline of my country, and, more worryingly: a sign of worse things to come.

Just call me Mr. Optimist! 🙂

ozymandias42
9 years ago

As a loud and proud BDSMer, I’ve never really gotten off on Gor. Possibly this is because I’m female and primarily a top, so the whole idea of being enslaved doesn’t really appeal to me very much. I do like being held down and hit and told I’m a dirty slut, but kneeling and service are things I like strictly on the other side of the whip, which really reduces the appeal of Gor to me.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Western Feminazi organizations such as the hypocritically named-Equality Now was able to succesfully lobby the Tokyo Assembly to pass the Vice Bill which will decimate the manga/anime/e-gaming industries, the last bastion of Japan’s mojo, so to speak, and the collective castration of the once-glorious nation of Nippon will be complete.

Pfft. They still have karaoke and really weird game shows. They’ll be fine.

Seriously, though, my Japanese friends would be quite amused to think that the manga/anime/e-gaming industries are the last bastion of anything in Japan. Their culture is deeper than you know.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Wisteria: Gonna have to (respectfully) disagree with you on David Boreanez. I find him much sexier on Bones – but that may be the character. Angel’s emo vamp shtick just annoyed the living hell out of me, probably also why i hate Edward SparkleVamp so very much. Booth’s competence and sense of humor make him MUCH more attractive to me.

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

I have read something about the waning libidos of both men and women in Japan. However, I would venture a wild guess that this development, far from being the immediate consequence of any attempt to regulate the adult entertainment industry, is more readily attributable to the Japanese society’s oversaturation with violent pornography and certain societal attitudes that socialize women to act like pre-pubescent children and to act as if sexual activity is about as pleasurable as a root canal. Look: I am not against pornography per se, nor do I believe it serves any good to make windows into people’s souls and control what they jerk off to. But, there comes a point where fetishism takes on a life of its own, no longer being complementary to conventional sexual activity, but its preferred replacement. I don’t know if the idea of forcefully “seducing” an adolescent girl is more pleasurable to Japanese men when it’s just a fantasy, but less gratifying when it’s acted out in real life. Perhaps if certain aspects of that culture made more room for sex being about playfulness and fun, rather than submission and domination, with women being enthusiastic participants, people in Japan would have more babies. Although, I recognize that’s by far not the only thing that affects the birth rate.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Seriously, though, my Japanese friends would be quite amused to think that the manga/anime/e-gaming industries are the last bastion of anything in Japan. Their culture is deeper than you know.

200-something-year-old USA to millenia-old Japan: “Guys, I’m really worried about you! You seem to have a very fragile, shallow culture based entirely on pop art. 🙁 ”

Japan to USA: “…we’ll think about it.”

Hershele Ostropoler
9 years ago

JUANDELACRUZ:

Semantics! Any one with common sense can clearly see this is splitting hairs. To use an analogy BDSM is to GOR as being closeted is to loud and proud. To pretend otherwise is simply being in denial.

KathleenB:

You do know that there are people here who are into actual BDSM, yes? That maybe their experience is worth a bit more in terms of defining words than you handwaving bullshit?

I think his factually incorrect point is that there are two types of BDSMers, Goreans and Goreans who lie aout it. It’s an ideal theory for dismissing all evidence that contradicts it.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
9 years ago

>>To use an analogy BDSM is to GOR as being closeted is to loud and proud.

Erm, no. More like what computer hacking is to cyberpunk fandom.

The Goreans are a fandom of a particularly crappy line of sci-fi books who, in order to live like their favorite characters, indulge in BDSM play.

I shouldn’t be throwing rocks in glass houses considering I spent most of college wearing sunglasses indoor and a trenchcoat with “Free Mitnick” and pro-crypto, infoanarchist slogans (see above regarding cyberpunk), but the Goreans are sort of a joke in the lifestyle… kinda like Trekkies, if they were into whips and leather.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

You mean kinksters AREN’T Trekkies into whips and leather?

Moewicus
Moewicus
9 years ago

You mean kinksters AREN’T Trekkies into whips and leather?

Orion slave girls, anyone?

That always seemed like an odd element to be included in Gene Freaking Roddenberry’s fictional utopia future, but it’s more explicable now.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Orion slave girls, anyone?

I seem to recall that being retconned in one of the books to Orions being slavers in general.

Lyn
Lyn
9 years ago

Ginmar Rienne: “Why do people respond to some woman-hating loser with, “But I love men! Let me show you how.” ? He’s not here to listen, he won’t believe you anyway, and why are you sucking up to a guy who hates the entire female gender and wants to fuck fourteen-year-old girls?”

OK, but TAB and I were having what could politely be called a ‘discussion’ in which I was accused of being a man-hater, so I responded to evidence which indicated that was not the case. I know he’s not likely to believe me, but nevertheless when I’m accused of things that aren’t true, it ticks me off and I like to correct it. Not because I’m going to convince the misogynist of anything, but because there are a bunch of other people reading (some lurkers even) who might indeed be convinced of my argument. Plus, I like to argue basic feminist points with idiots because there are lots of them irl and this is a good way to circumvent the silent and shocked response I used to get when I met them.

So, uh, not ‘sucking up’ to the misogynist, thank-you. You may not be aware, but this is not Feministe or whatever, we totally engage trolls here and use them as ‘fertiliser’ (as Ami calls it!) for discussion. If you’re not down with that, maybe head to one of the blogs that speaks about less basic and obvious feminist points, is moderated and doesn’t put up with trolls, and then maybe you can avoid being a jerk to fellow feminists.

Seraph
Seraph
9 years ago

Angel’s emo vamp shtick just annoyed the living hell out of me, probably also why i hate Edward SparkleVamp so very much.

In Angel’s defense, he catches fire in sunlight and he has a beyond-psychotic alternate personality that will literally destroy the world if he ever has too nice a day. Edward is sparkly and…and that’s about it. He’s almost totally invincible, has a loving vampire family, and he’s sparkly. And that’s what he angsts about. Some emo is more justified than others.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Hey, Ginmar, what up?

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

In Angel’s defense, he catches fire in sunlight and he has a beyond-psychotic alternate personality that will literally destroy the world if he ever has too nice a day.

Oh, of course. I guess I just find the whole emo!vamp thing annoying no matter how well- justified (or not, in Edward’s case).

ozymandias42
9 years ago

Oh, Ginmar vs. NWO. This is gonna be fun… 🙂

Seraph
Seraph
9 years ago

BTW, just popping in, so I haven’t really followed the conversation, may do so later, but here’s my thought:

I haven’t really been interested in 14-year-olds since I was 17 or so. A few years makes a lot of difference at that age, and 14-year-olds just seemed so immature. Besides, I don’t know what anyone else’s high school was like, but the general consensus around my school was that if you dated anyone more than a grade lower than yourself, you were kind of a loser.

Now that I’m 34, my reaction is pretty much a more grown-up version of the same: sure there are some 14-year-olds whose bodies are developed enough to catch my notice, but when I realize their age, I’m a little creeped out (they’re kids!), completely uninterested in spending any time with them (I hate kids!), and think any adult who wants a relationship with them is (at best) a loser (what the hell is wrong with you? They’re kids!).

Ginmar Rienne
9 years ago

What’s up? Oh, you know, the usual. Fighting with the VA, doing the odd bit of writing, more fighting with the frickin’ VA, organizing the DVD collection, worshipping my Kindle, hacking at the ole leg hair, which is starting to resemble the Amazon (ha! see what I did there?!) rainforest, experimenting with fetus cooking, fighting with the VA, stuff like that. Plus gotta keep up my castration quota so as to keep getting those checks from the Vast Feminazi Conspiracy HQ. You know how it is. If the VA would not stop fucking up my case, I could go back to school and see if I could study architecture, as I’ve got quite the interest in green, small, sustainable, independent housing. While in my spare time I’d write werewolf novels. Or aliens invade movies. Can’t get enough of the old ‘aliens invade’ storyline, no matter how often they mess it up. Speilberg wins the prize there. Not that I’m bitter about that movie. Ugh. Anyhoo…..How you doin’?

Uh, Lyn? Thanks, I don’t need a lesson in Feministe/Shakesville-style bullshit, but thanks for the crash course reminding me. You may not think you’re sucking up to whatever dipshit is opining that all feminazis hate men, but it’s very Shakesville-like to issue disclaimers to assure fragile male egos that the speaker likes men, really they do. That’s not the point. The point is, that it’s classic manipulation by various MRAs, who know how to put women on the defensive. Live a little. Next time you feel the urge to assure some MRA that you just ADORE men or whatever in response to some accusation of man hating, stop and think. Does it really bother you that some loser might label you a man hater? That’s not engaging a troll. That’s giving them something
they want.

Myself, I eat fetuses and decorate Casa Ginmar with testicles (with lights!) for the holidays. Although avoid green fairy lights. Makes the little buggers look like they’re gangrenous. I go to great lengths to make sure that they’re humanely removed from all the manginas I personally neuter. Gotta put those branch snippers into use when I’m not trimming the maple tree in the back yard—and the ole leg hair! Gotta keep up to date on the leg hair. Maybe I got the Miracle Gro confused with the Nair again.

Oz, is there some reason I should bother with NOW—what the heck is his name anyway?

Pecunium
9 years ago

juandelacruz: which really harmed a lot of normal Japanese guys for engaging in what had been up until that point, standard cultural practice for centuries, even millennia. And this was mainly due to FOREIGN (I.E. WESTERN I.E. AMERICAN) PRESSURE and their notoriously wimpy politicians succumbed to it

And those nasty Brits made the Indians stop practicing Suttee. Just because of their FOREIGN IDEAS about women being people (even if second class).

And the whole stopping headhunting in New Guinea, and preventing the Foré from cannibalism.

So fucking screwed up that was.

+++

Gor, and BDSM aren’t the same. It’s sort of like saying piercing your ears is just like getting a coronal piercing of the glans.

Seraph
Seraph
9 years ago

I guess I just find the whole emo!vamp thing annoying no matter how well- justified

Fair enough. I myself preferred Angel when he was being stoic, or cultured, or wise…generally showing how old he really was. Which brings us back to the original topic, yes?

Ginmar Rienne
9 years ago

Am I the only Spike fan here? Really? A smart, irreverent, sarcastic, and yet idealistic without being a mope vampire amidst a sea of sparklevamps and brooders? Although when Boreanaz had a fifteen-second vision of himself dancing at a party it was damned near spit-up-your-drink material. Angel had flashes of sarcasm in the first season of Buffy, but damn, he got tedious fast. The brooding vamp’s way overdone and due for a, well, revamp. Cleolinda at LJ’s got a hysterical take on the Twilight movies, and then you can always google “Growing up Cullen”, if you want to never ever be able to watch those movies with a straight face—assuming you ever accomplished that in the first place.

Magpie
9 years ago

On the original post: these men are talking about their DAUGHTERS.

Ginmar Rienne
9 years ago

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand that makes it better how?!

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Spike was a better character. Even when being goofy in love he was still more entertaining then Angel.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

you can always google “Growing up Cullen”, if you want to never ever be able to watch those movies with a straight face—assuming you ever accomplished that in the first place.

Forget straight-faced. Pretty sure I’d only be able to watch those movies shit-faced.

Seraph
Seraph
9 years ago

I liked Spike before the badass decay set in. Once he started taking over the show, I started to resent him, interesting character or not. If it weren’t for Dawn, he would’ve been my personal Scrappy in Season Sux and Season Sux Slightly Less. Part of the reason I stopped watching Angel was because resurrecting him from his (far too long delayed) heroic death was a blatant pander for ratings that should have been beneath Joss & Co.

Ginmar Rienne
9 years ago

Well, Joss turned over Buffy and Spike to Marti Noxon and her issues, which resulted in Buffy acting in ways that seemed out of character. About Dawn and Spike…..well, supposedly there were on set issues.

Joss needed to write all the characters with the same degree of attention, not just his favorites.

Magpie….wait, you mean watch those pieces of cinematic toilet paper sober?! Really? You have to read Stoney321’s take on the books; she’s a lapsed Mormon, so she was well equipped to catch every nuance. Keep all beverages away from the computer.

Orion
Orion
9 years ago

Orion slave girls, anyone?

I have slave girls now?

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Lyn: It is not up to us to establish a stupid stereotype is not true. That gives weight to an idiotic narrative that isn’t grounded in reality. You, and everyone else, may talk about how much you love your boyfriends, husbands, etc, in response. But you don’t have to, and you lend weight to a moronic narrative that can’t actually be substantiated by refuting it.

Of course, far be it from me to stop you if you want to wax on about your partner. It’s all I can do to keep from talking about mine sometimes!

Magpie
9 years ago

Ginmar, I meant that makes it worse. I just ran out of words for the horror of it. 😉

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
9 years ago

you sound less like an advocate for the men of the world, and more like someone the Commissioner has to send Batman after.

I am so stealing this line.

Kendra, the bionic mommy
Kendra, the bionic mommy
9 years ago

Those mensright reddit people keep spouting their evo psych crap, but what they are really advocating is rape, plain and simple. A 14 year old girl is not emotionally and mentally mature enough to consent to sex. Neither is a 14 year old boy. If someone lacks the capacity to consent to sex, it’s rape. That’s why it’s called statutory rape, for crying out loud. I do see gray areas, like if the partners are close in age to each other within a few years. There’s a big difference between an 18 year old and a 15 year old hooking up and a 30 year old hooking up with a 15 year old.

They can stop with the bs about “if she menstruates, she is ready for a sexual relationship” or the ridiculous “if there is grass on the field, play ball”. I hit puberty at 12, and at that same age, I believed crop circles were great evidence for the existence of extraterrestrial life visiting earth (geez, that’s embarrassing to admit). Obviously, I was more physically mature than I was mentally mature.

Yes, it’s true that the age of consent varies from state to state and country to country. Some people do mature faster than others, so it’s hard to make laws that apply to everyone. I think it’s best, though, to err on the side of caution and keep the age of consent laws high. I actually think 18 is a good age of consent. You’re old enough to smoke, to join the military, and vote, so you’re pretty much an adult. By that same token, 18 year old’s should also be allowed to buy alcohol, but that’s another issue altogether.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Ginmar: I may actually die of the laughing. That’s totes how I think Edward would be, outside the books.

Magpie
9 years ago

Never seen or read Twilight – I saw a very forgettable vampire movie called Daybreakers. It seemed to be based on a Worth1000 competition. But it had Hugo Weaving in it, so there’s that. 🙂

Lyn
Lyn
9 years ago

I never meant to imply that it was essential to establish that we aren’t man-hating harpies – I agree that it’s a ridiculous narrative that ought to be treated with disdain though perhaps some of us have different ideas on how to disdain it. I mean really, if we refrained from discussing the patently ridiculous assertions of MRAs….I don’t know how much we’d have to talk about on this blog. Ultimately where people draw the line in what they respond to is always going to differ. Myself, I responded to a direct accusation, and it was part of an attempt to juxtapose a really very ‘reasonable’ response to a rather offensive attack. That’s just a strategy I like to use when dealing with over-emotional toddler types.

And, thinking about it, part of my motivation for bringing up my partner is because after all of the hateful stuff argued in the OP and by trolls it’s nice to remind myself that these jerks are in a minority, and that the messed up relationship dynamics that these guys support are not part of my life (any more).