So a bunch of the regulars on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit have their collective knickers in a twist about dudes getting called “pedophiles” just for saying they think 14-year old girls are hot. Because that’s “ephebephilia,” dontchaknow, not pedophilia! And besides, thingsarebad argues
Normal heterosexual males will generally have sexual attraction for pubescent females of child-bearing age, from puberty till they start to get old and gross (late 20s, early 30s usually haha).
That’s pretty much “eww.” But so is the rest of the discussion, really, from this “joke” about all women being as immature as children to this heavily upvoted claim that feminists have created a “pedo-scare … to criminalize healthy and normal male sexuality,” to this Evo-Psych-flavored argument for lowering the age of consent.
Is it just me or are dudes who get indignant when people don’t carefully distinguish between ephebephilia and pedophilia just really really creepy?
Is “the right to lust after underage girls without having to feel icky about it” really a Men’s Rights issue? Why this preoccupation with 14-year-old girls, on r/mensrights and Reddit generally?
Chivalry is just another way to make yourself feel better for treating women like objects (Albeit expensive ones).
And dude we’re not the ones talking about Moe being sexually attractive, that’s you. I won’t say that, per se, the bodyguard crush trope is necessarily rape-y, but Moe amps up the ‘body-guarded”s helplessness by far too much for it to be anything else. If you’re sexually attracted to someone that absolutely depends on you for protection or profvidence, well, you have a serious love of unequal relationships where consent isn’t a thing that can really be given freely, I.E. rape.
It’s possible she knows me I guess? The only place I’ve seen baby cookouts mentioned as a thing before was Pharyngula, because god it’s fun to parody the over the top accusations made about us, but I didn’t catch her name when I was there.
But it’s more likely that it’s a joke in a lot more places than that, and I can definitely see it being common in a lot of pro-choice heavy spaces solely as a matter of pro-choice, because really, I know that ‘abortionists feeding on abortion’, either literally or figuratively, is a common trope amongst anti abortion people.
Eh, I find to be an extremely liberal construction of the term. Then again, you are liberal extremists after all. 😀
The juxtaposition of these two statements is really disturbing. The impulse to protect small, young, defenseless creatures is a *human* instinct. To claim that it is part of “heterosexual male sexuality” makes it sound like you really, really want to fuck little girls.
Roleplay with a consenting adult partner who happens to look (or can make him/herself look) young. Fantasize all you want. But by all means, keep insisting your desires aren’t creepy at all – that way I know to never let you anywhere near my children.
To claim that it is part of “heterosexual male sexuality” makes it sound like you really, really want to fuck little girls.
He really, really does. He’s basically started posting child porn in the mammoth thread.
Ordinarily I’m not comfortable with these jokes, because they’re not usually only given to the few people who actually deserve it, and are instead given to nerd-dom as a whole (Substitute ‘animated’ with whatever’s appropriate), but I’m pretty sure he just admitted to trying to stick to the most hardcore-loser areas of 2ch, so fire away.
Really? You’re going to compare xenophobia to “Get out of the fucking house” and “Don’t have creepy feelings towards women”? Yeah, no, that’s appropriation if I ever saw it. You don’t know what discrimination is.
White Knight is a term overused by MRIdiots like yourself. Yes, a non zero number of asshats, do actually try to get sex by being ‘gallant’ on the internet. You confuse our allies, who legitimately believe these principles, with those idiots. It isn’t white knighting if you don’t expect a cookie.
You don’t deserve gratitude for wanting to fuck me.
I’m sure you do, you little misogynist you.
But the ability to consent is paramount; you can not meaningfully consent to someone who controls your life, and that’s what the kind of helplessness that is moe means. To want to take on the care for someone that helpless, *and want to fuck them*, is fucked up, and very rapey.
In a word, no.
In slightly more words, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY
In useful words, very no, and you need serious evidence to corroborate it. Japan’s culture is extremely stressful to all involved, especially in matters of work. If you are not one of the rare eccentrics who can truly get away with being amazingly ‘weird’ due to amazing results, you live a life that is extremely stressful, where you’re placed under huge amounts of pressure. For instance, junior office workers don’t walk anywhere; that’s lazy, only lazy or accomplished people walk. But actually running would be dangerous, so they jog, slowly, everywhere. That’s a ridiculous practice, but it’s only one, and only one sliver of the judging and pressure the Japanese face for *existing*. It’s no wonder they’re having fewer kids; the Japanese (Husbands and wives) live such stressful lives, and stress reduces fertility.
Peak fertility is 14, eh? Wow! Too bad I didn’t have sex when I was 14, because it only took 3 months of trying for me to get knocked up at 30. If I’m super-fertile now I would have been uber-fertile then. Think how many betas I could have soaked for child support in the past, er, 16 years!
Malcontent, do you come from a very large German-Canadian family with roots in Western Canada? If so, my grandmother might be your great-grandmother. She had 12 kids, starting in her early 20s and ending in her mid-40s. While running a farm.
Juan de la Cruz, you win the “Creepiest new Troll” award. Congratulations!
I don’t buy the whole “I have the urge to protect kids!” thing.
I have the urge to protect kids too. That’s why I don’t want anybody fucking them.
Seriously, if you want to nurture and shelter a young person, you don’t do that by getting into a relationship with them that’s virtually guaranteed to disrupt their relationships with peers, put them in a situation where they’re always “inferior” to their partner, ask them for consent based on your “grown-up authority” rather than their enthusiasm, and end (at best) by breaking their heart and making them feel like they’re the weirdo.
“I want to protect you, but I have to stick my dick in you to do that”–that’s not the love of a protector, right there.
I don’t think moe is inherently bad! Sexual fantasies often come from a really dark and disturbing place in someone’s id, and “I want to protect and cuddle (and also sleep with) a cute, innocent girl” is not quite as dark and disturbing as, say, gay incest noncon fantasies. If roleplayed with a consenting and ADULT partner, it’s cool.
The problem is that Juan De La Cruz has “confusing reality and porn” syndrome. You don’t want a partner you can protect, not really; you want an equal partner you can pretend to protect sometimes. You certainly don’t want to fuck a teenager. Trust me, I was one, you don’t.
MOE inspires the finer chivalrous impulses of men, like “I want to protect/cuddle her” and such.
The common refrain of the sexist/racist/etc. “They” need to be “protected”. It’s not like blacks, or women, are people, and one wonders at the idea of, “cuddling, and protection” includes fucking children.
And knightly romances, like “Le Chanson de Rolande”, and “El Cid” and Le Morte D’Arthur”… fables, ideas of what might be, were the world more perfected. Given the horrific things which took place in them; the world they were improvements on must have been a bit sucky, if one wasn’t rich.
This is the age of, “The Last Duel” where a woman who was raped had to hope her husband won the mortal combat; because if he lost his, mortal combat, not only would her rapist (who did it it gain revenge on her husband), be vindicated, but she’d be hanged; because she corroborated her husband’s accusation.
The film, “Flesh and Blood” is a little, late, but better captures the period you are talking about then do the fantastic ideas you seem to have gotten from Errol Flynn and Disney movies.
“I want to protect you, but I have to stick my dick in you to do that”–that’s not the love of a protector, right there.
Yes, that’s…what’s the word? Oh yeah: exploitative.
Stoney’s Sparkledammerung is a thing of truth and beauty.
CB – It can be self-delusion on the molestor’s part, too. I’ve read about child molesters saying–and honestly believing–that they were doing the kids a favors by keeping them safe from the bad people out there, you know, the ones that might hurt them.
Agreed, Holly. Molestors often imagine their victims to be consenting, which is muddled by the fact that some victims find the experience to be at least somewhat pleasureable, if only for the attention received. This is why molestors often target kids who are neglected.
BTW, this in no way justifies exploitation of children.
There’s also the “I got turned on, therefore she was trying to turn me on” delusion that NWO has such trouble with.
It’s a bit scary that NWO’s view of sexuality seems almost healthy when compared to juandelacruz’.
Think about how you being in a happy relationship with a man (or woman, or both) Really, REALLY pisses them off.
Then enjoy telling them about it, because they are sad, lonely self-absorbed losers who will never really know how to connect with another human being. 😉
You know, whiny douchebag misogynistics pretty much HAVE to be attracted to children, because all they really want is a fuckable mommy. Children (generally speaking) haven’t had the time, or life experience, to yet be “full” people with their own desires, interests, goals, etc. They’re easily exploitable, and generally assumed to be gullible.
That’s an MRA’s dream woman – one he can rape, beat, torture and starve into becoming the perfect stepford fuckable mommy!
TAB is an excellent example of this: lots of claims that women love him, that he’s oh-so-smart, and yet, children are the only female humans he doesn’t seethe so much hate for.
They’re cowards, ultimately, and this obssession with fucking children just proves the extent of their chickenshitness.
I find that a lot of the anti-choicers and woman-haters make outrageous accusations and then expect women to go, “Oh, no! I’m not like them.” Divide and conquer. Then women will scurry toward talking about their boyfriends, and how they’re devoted to men and……the MRAs have successfully framed the debate and got women to agree to it.
I only occasionally hang around at Pharyngula, but I’ve been roasting babies, so to speak, ever since it became clear that nothing wuuld satisfy MRA trolls, so I like turning it around on them. It gives them nowhere to go. If a bunch of straight women rush to rapsodize about their boyfriends, where does that leave women who DO fit the stereotype of feminists? They’re basically left out in the cold. And what’s wrong with being angry, or refusing to starve yourself, or saying ‘fuck it’ to standards of appearance that were created by men? The MRAs sure whine like stuck pigs when we make dick jokes, but there they are, tricking women into assuring them that, basically, the only real feminists are the het, attractive, coupled ones. With that kind of background, you can’t get MRAs, ironically, to believe that any woman on the internet isn’t really the worst fear they have in their hind brain. Good. Let them live in fear.
KathleenB, you absolutely must, have to, cannot live without reading Cleolinda’s movies in fifteen versions of the whole Twilight series. Somehow, I always picture MRAs as thinking they’re really Edward, except without whatever it is I’m supposed to find attractive about a dude who is so very obviously wearing pancake makeup mixed with glitter, plus stalking a young woman who’s got no brains or personality at all. “I AM GOING TO MY ROOM, GOOD DAY TO ALL OF YOU.” Edward is the fantasy MRA, because more and more it seems like MRAs just want fourteen-year-old girls to lust after them so the MRAs can claim, “Hey, she wanted me.” Yeah, well, when I was fourteen I wanted to be a jockey, but Mom and Dad didn’t give in to that any more than when I wanted to be a wilderness explorer, either. “THERE’S GOT TO BE SOME WILDERNESS I CAN FIND, MOM!”
Ginmar – There’s a difference between saying “I like all men and will do whatever they want” and saying “I do like most decent guys.”
And honestly? I do. No less and no more than I like most decent women. And I think it’s important to say that, to give evidence that this isn’t a battle of the genders.
The MRAs haven’t framed shit here, if that’s what you’re worried about. Mostly they just ignore us when we mention liking men, because they want to see us as man-haters.
Speaking of room for everyone in feminism, please leave a little room for people who do, in fact, love their boyfriends, and aren’t afraid to say so. If you dismiss us as man-pleasing movement-hijacking bimbos, you’re dividing and conquering better than the MRAs ever could.
“Divide and conquer. Then women will scurry toward talking about their boyfriends, and how they’re devoted to men and……the MRAs have successfully framed the debate and got women to agree to it. ”
Isn’t it a deliberate double-edge sword? If she doesn’t talk about the men in her life she cares for, then that’s “proof” no man can stand her and she’s just bitter.
They do hate to hear stories from women about being in happy and loving relationships with men, because chickenshit crybaby MRAs are incapable of that. That’s what made them MRAs to begin with.
. .. of course, now that Im thinking about it – since they are impervious to reality, it really doens’t matter what a woman says, it will still be painfully twisted to “prove” women really are at fault for whatever.
hmmm.
What do you suggest to deal with such cowardly dodges from chickenshit MRAs?
The MRAs sure whine like stuck pigs when we make dick jokes
Which are, of course, perfectly fine and laudable (who cares that so many men are insecure about their penis size? They’re just men, fuck’em and their worthless feelings) as well as saying things like “MRAs whine like stuck pigs”. You go girl! But of course, saying anything bad about feminists isn’t funny and you’re just a mean misogynist if you do! Big no-no.
To be honest I’m rather enjoying this feminist vs MRA spectacle, because it’s like watching two camps of extremist fanatics, each fully convinced that they are 100% right, going at it with all they’ve got.
Johnny B, please note that nobody here (other than sort of Ginmar, but she only referenced it, didn’t make any) is actually making dick jokes, and on the forums we actually criticize each other rather heavily for such things.
Because handy as it would make the MRA’s bookkeeping, feminists are not the pro-woman anti-man camp. We’ve got nothing against men who’ve got nothing against women.