So a bunch of the regulars on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit have their collective knickers in a twist about dudes getting called “pedophiles” just for saying they think 14-year old girls are hot. Because that’s “ephebephilia,” dontchaknow, not pedophilia! And besides, thingsarebad argues
Normal heterosexual males will generally have sexual attraction for pubescent females of child-bearing age, from puberty till they start to get old and gross (late 20s, early 30s usually haha).
That’s pretty much “eww.” But so is the rest of the discussion, really, from this “joke” about all women being as immature as children to this heavily upvoted claim that feminists have created a “pedo-scare … to criminalize healthy and normal male sexuality,” to this Evo-Psych-flavored argument for lowering the age of consent.
Is it just me or are dudes who get indignant when people don’t carefully distinguish between ephebephilia and pedophilia just really really creepy?
Is “the right to lust after underage girls without having to feel icky about it” really a Men’s Rights issue? Why this preoccupation with 14-year-old girls, on r/mensrights and Reddit generally?
Orion slave girls, anyone?
I seem to recall that being retconned in one of the books to Orions being slavers in general.
Ginmar Rienne: “Why do people respond to some woman-hating loser with, “But I love men! Let me show you how.” ? He’s not here to listen, he won’t believe you anyway, and why are you sucking up to a guy who hates the entire female gender and wants to fuck fourteen-year-old girls?”
OK, but TAB and I were having what could politely be called a ‘discussion’ in which I was accused of being a man-hater, so I responded to evidence which indicated that was not the case. I know he’s not likely to believe me, but nevertheless when I’m accused of things that aren’t true, it ticks me off and I like to correct it. Not because I’m going to convince the misogynist of anything, but because there are a bunch of other people reading (some lurkers even) who might indeed be convinced of my argument. Plus, I like to argue basic feminist points with idiots because there are lots of them irl and this is a good way to circumvent the silent and shocked response I used to get when I met them.
So, uh, not ‘sucking up’ to the misogynist, thank-you. You may not be aware, but this is not Feministe or whatever, we totally engage trolls here and use them as ‘fertiliser’ (as Ami calls it!) for discussion. If you’re not down with that, maybe head to one of the blogs that speaks about less basic and obvious feminist points, is moderated and doesn’t put up with trolls, and then maybe you can avoid being a jerk to fellow feminists.
In Angel’s defense, he catches fire in sunlight and he has a beyond-psychotic alternate personality that will literally destroy the world if he ever has too nice a day. Edward is sparkly and…and that’s about it. He’s almost totally invincible, has a loving vampire family, and he’s sparkly. And that’s what he angsts about. Some emo is more justified than others.
Hey, Ginmar, what up?
In Angel’s defense, he catches fire in sunlight and he has a beyond-psychotic alternate personality that will literally destroy the world if he ever has too nice a day.
Oh, of course. I guess I just find the whole emo!vamp thing annoying no matter how well- justified (or not, in Edward’s case).
Oh, Ginmar vs. NWO. This is gonna be fun… 🙂
BTW, just popping in, so I haven’t really followed the conversation, may do so later, but here’s my thought:
I haven’t really been interested in 14-year-olds since I was 17 or so. A few years makes a lot of difference at that age, and 14-year-olds just seemed so immature. Besides, I don’t know what anyone else’s high school was like, but the general consensus around my school was that if you dated anyone more than a grade lower than yourself, you were kind of a loser.
Now that I’m 34, my reaction is pretty much a more grown-up version of the same: sure there are some 14-year-olds whose bodies are developed enough to catch my notice, but when I realize their age, I’m a little creeped out (they’re kids!), completely uninterested in spending any time with them (I hate kids!), and think any adult who wants a relationship with them is (at best) a loser (what the hell is wrong with you? They’re kids!).
What’s up? Oh, you know, the usual. Fighting with the VA, doing the odd bit of writing, more fighting with the frickin’ VA, organizing the DVD collection, worshipping my Kindle, hacking at the ole leg hair, which is starting to resemble the Amazon (ha! see what I did there?!) rainforest, experimenting with fetus cooking, fighting with the VA, stuff like that. Plus gotta keep up my castration quota so as to keep getting those checks from the Vast Feminazi Conspiracy HQ. You know how it is. If the VA would not stop fucking up my case, I could go back to school and see if I could study architecture, as I’ve got quite the interest in green, small, sustainable, independent housing. While in my spare time I’d write werewolf novels. Or aliens invade movies. Can’t get enough of the old ‘aliens invade’ storyline, no matter how often they mess it up. Speilberg wins the prize there. Not that I’m bitter about that movie. Ugh. Anyhoo…..How you doin’?
Uh, Lyn? Thanks, I don’t need a lesson in Feministe/Shakesville-style bullshit, but thanks for the crash course reminding me. You may not think you’re sucking up to whatever dipshit is opining that all feminazis hate men, but it’s very Shakesville-like to issue disclaimers to assure fragile male egos that the speaker likes men, really they do. That’s not the point. The point is, that it’s classic manipulation by various MRAs, who know how to put women on the defensive. Live a little. Next time you feel the urge to assure some MRA that you just ADORE men or whatever in response to some accusation of man hating, stop and think. Does it really bother you that some loser might label you a man hater? That’s not engaging a troll. That’s giving them something
they want.
Myself, I eat fetuses and decorate Casa Ginmar with testicles (with lights!) for the holidays. Although avoid green fairy lights. Makes the little buggers look like they’re gangrenous. I go to great lengths to make sure that they’re humanely removed from all the manginas I personally neuter. Gotta put those branch snippers into use when I’m not trimming the maple tree in the back yard—and the ole leg hair! Gotta keep up to date on the leg hair. Maybe I got the Miracle Gro confused with the Nair again.
Oz, is there some reason I should bother with NOW—what the heck is his name anyway?
juandelacruz: which really harmed a lot of normal Japanese guys for engaging in what had been up until that point, standard cultural practice for centuries, even millennia. And this was mainly due to FOREIGN (I.E. WESTERN I.E. AMERICAN) PRESSURE and their notoriously wimpy politicians succumbed to it
And those nasty Brits made the Indians stop practicing Suttee. Just because of their FOREIGN IDEAS about women being people (even if second class).
And the whole stopping headhunting in New Guinea, and preventing the Foré from cannibalism.
So fucking screwed up that was.
+++
Gor, and BDSM aren’t the same. It’s sort of like saying piercing your ears is just like getting a coronal piercing of the glans.
Fair enough. I myself preferred Angel when he was being stoic, or cultured, or wise…generally showing how old he really was. Which brings us back to the original topic, yes?
Am I the only Spike fan here? Really? A smart, irreverent, sarcastic, and yet idealistic without being a mope vampire amidst a sea of sparklevamps and brooders? Although when Boreanaz had a fifteen-second vision of himself dancing at a party it was damned near spit-up-your-drink material. Angel had flashes of sarcasm in the first season of Buffy, but damn, he got tedious fast. The brooding vamp’s way overdone and due for a, well, revamp. Cleolinda at LJ’s got a hysterical take on the Twilight movies, and then you can always google “Growing up Cullen”, if you want to never ever be able to watch those movies with a straight face—assuming you ever accomplished that in the first place.
On the original post: these men are talking about their DAUGHTERS.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand that makes it better how?!
Spike was a better character. Even when being goofy in love he was still more entertaining then Angel.
Forget straight-faced. Pretty sure I’d only be able to watch those movies shit-faced.
I liked Spike before the badass decay set in. Once he started taking over the show, I started to resent him, interesting character or not. If it weren’t for Dawn, he would’ve been my personal Scrappy in Season Sux and Season Sux Slightly Less. Part of the reason I stopped watching Angel was because resurrecting him from his (far too long delayed) heroic death was a blatant pander for ratings that should have been beneath Joss & Co.
Well, Joss turned over Buffy and Spike to Marti Noxon and her issues, which resulted in Buffy acting in ways that seemed out of character. About Dawn and Spike…..well, supposedly there were on set issues.
Joss needed to write all the characters with the same degree of attention, not just his favorites.
Magpie….wait, you mean watch those pieces of cinematic toilet paper sober?! Really? You have to read Stoney321’s take on the books; she’s a lapsed Mormon, so she was well equipped to catch every nuance. Keep all beverages away from the computer.
Orion slave girls, anyone?
I have slave girls now?
Lyn: It is not up to us to establish a stupid stereotype is not true. That gives weight to an idiotic narrative that isn’t grounded in reality. You, and everyone else, may talk about how much you love your boyfriends, husbands, etc, in response. But you don’t have to, and you lend weight to a moronic narrative that can’t actually be substantiated by refuting it.
Of course, far be it from me to stop you if you want to wax on about your partner. It’s all I can do to keep from talking about mine sometimes!
Ginmar, I meant that makes it worse. I just ran out of words for the horror of it. 😉
I am so stealing this line.
Those mensright reddit people keep spouting their evo psych crap, but what they are really advocating is rape, plain and simple. A 14 year old girl is not emotionally and mentally mature enough to consent to sex. Neither is a 14 year old boy. If someone lacks the capacity to consent to sex, it’s rape. That’s why it’s called statutory rape, for crying out loud. I do see gray areas, like if the partners are close in age to each other within a few years. There’s a big difference between an 18 year old and a 15 year old hooking up and a 30 year old hooking up with a 15 year old.
They can stop with the bs about “if she menstruates, she is ready for a sexual relationship” or the ridiculous “if there is grass on the field, play ball”. I hit puberty at 12, and at that same age, I believed crop circles were great evidence for the existence of extraterrestrial life visiting earth (geez, that’s embarrassing to admit). Obviously, I was more physically mature than I was mentally mature.
Yes, it’s true that the age of consent varies from state to state and country to country. Some people do mature faster than others, so it’s hard to make laws that apply to everyone. I think it’s best, though, to err on the side of caution and keep the age of consent laws high. I actually think 18 is a good age of consent. You’re old enough to smoke, to join the military, and vote, so you’re pretty much an adult. By that same token, 18 year old’s should also be allowed to buy alcohol, but that’s another issue altogether.
Ginmar: I may actually die of the laughing. That’s totes how I think Edward would be, outside the books.
Never seen or read Twilight – I saw a very forgettable vampire movie called Daybreakers. It seemed to be based on a Worth1000 competition. But it had Hugo Weaving in it, so there’s that. 🙂
I never meant to imply that it was essential to establish that we aren’t man-hating harpies – I agree that it’s a ridiculous narrative that ought to be treated with disdain though perhaps some of us have different ideas on how to disdain it. I mean really, if we refrained from discussing the patently ridiculous assertions of MRAs….I don’t know how much we’d have to talk about on this blog. Ultimately where people draw the line in what they respond to is always going to differ. Myself, I responded to a direct accusation, and it was part of an attempt to juxtapose a really very ‘reasonable’ response to a rather offensive attack. That’s just a strategy I like to use when dealing with over-emotional toddler types.
And, thinking about it, part of my motivation for bringing up my partner is because after all of the hateful stuff argued in the OP and by trolls it’s nice to remind myself that these jerks are in a minority, and that the messed up relationship dynamics that these guys support are not part of my life (any more).