The inhabitants of Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit seem to have developed a sudden crush on the authoritarian Chinese government. Why? Well, it seems that the lovable tyrants have decided to crack down on evil golddigger bitches. According to an article in The Telegraph, linked to in the subreddit,
In a bid to temper the rising expectations of Chinese women, China’s Supreme Court has now ruled that from now on, the person who buys the family home, or the parents who advance them the money, will get to keep it after divorce.
“Hopefully this will help educate younger people, especially younger women, to be more independent, and to think of marriage in the right way rather than worshipping money so much,” said Hu Jiachu, a lawyer in Hunan province.
The ruling should also help relieve some of the burden on young Chinese men, many of whom fret about the difficulty of buying even a small apartment.
Never mind that the lopsided demographics in China today — where young men greatly outnumber young women, making it harder for young men to find wives — are not the result of excess feminism, but the result of a toxic mixture of cultural misogyny and the authoritarian regime’s “one child” program. As William Saletan explains the logic in Slate:
Girls are culturally and economically devalued; the government uses powerful financial levers to prevent you from having another child; therefore, to make sure you can have a boy, you abort the girl you’re carrying.
The result? 16 million “missing girls” in China. Ironically, the skewed ratio of men to women gives young women considerable leverage in chosing whom to marry – and that’s what the Men’s Rightser’s seem to see as the real injustice here.
As Evil Pundit wrote, evidently speaking for many (given the numerous upvotes he got):
Wow. I’ve always disliked the authoritarian Chinese government, but for once, it’s done something good.
I may need to reconsider my attitude.
IncrediblyFatMan added:
China wants to become the next superpower and world leader. They aren’t going to do it by allowing the kinds of social decay that rot away at the competing nations.
Revorob joked:
If they brought that in over here, most women in Australia would be living on the street.
“Or,” Fondueguy quipped in response, “they could learn to work.”
At the moment, all the comments in the thread praising the Chinese government for this move (and there are many more) have net upvotes; the only comment in the negative? One suggesting that the Telegraph isn’t exactly a reliable source.
Speaking of which, here’s a more balanced look at the issue on China.org.cn that examines some of the consequences of the new ruling for Chinese women.
Let’s look at some of those. According to one Beijing lawyer quoted in the piece:
“[H]ousewives, especially those in the rural areas who have no job and are responsible for taking care of their families, will be affected most by this new change,” she said. “If their husbands want a divorce, they are likely to be kicked out of the house with nothing.”
Luo Huilan, a professor of women’s studies at China Women’s University in Beijing, agreed.
In rural areas, she said, men have the final say in family matters. All essential family assets, such as home, car and bank deposits, are registered in the men’s names, and women fill the roles of only wife, mother and farmworker.
“Their labor, though substantial, hardly gets recognition. Without a good education, they have to rely heavily on their husbands,” Luo said. “In case of divorce, a woman is driven out of her husband’s life, home and family, and finds herself an alien even in her parents’ home. No wonder the new interpretation of the Marriage Law has aroused concern among women.”
And no wonder it’s drawn cheers on the Men’s Rights subreddit.
Brandon thinks this is fair: “Women have their own say in what happens with their body.”
Brandon thinks this is unfair: “Women get to decide if they have a baby even if the man doesn’t want to become a father.”
So that’s a pretty harsh indictment of sex ed classes wherever he grew up, innit? :p (Hint: uteruses are usually found inside of women, Brandon!)
(Forgot to close my bold tag…)
Forcing abortions, that is very equalist indeed.
At no point did I recommend forced abortions. I was merely pointing out the benefits women have over men.
How do you consider bodily autonomy to be both “equality” (as in your point #3) and a “benefit”?
Because no matter what men do…we can not force you to be a parent against your will.
Are you not aware of the hiring, promotion, and work (I’m not sure how to phrase the gap in hours-worked) gaps? Those are solid benefits in your favor. You *Can not* keep them and extend them to women. It isn’t possible for men and women to both be 70% of upper management. And you have stated, loud and clear, that you will never work against your own interests. You are dishonest; you know that you can’t actually provide equality without sacrificing your primacy. You’re not interested in salving anything but the least important (If most sexy for presentation) part of the economic disparity between men and women. And you know that disparity far and wide advantages you. And you complain when women don’t go for you first.
Your ignorance is not my problem. Though I suspect it’s more like your dishonesty.
Garbage workers and sewer treatment workers are not the bottom of the barrel, additionally, but I’m not surprised you think poorly of the people who clean up the other pieces of garbage. They make respectable salaries, albeit non-amazing ones. There are more women below the poverty line than there are men. All posturing about how men ‘have a majority of shitty jobs’ ignores that crucial fact.
No, in contested cases men are awarded custody as often as women; men frequently don’t contest. Women are forced into the role of motherhood; this isn’t a benefit. The primary caretaker generally wins primary custody, and this is fact is gender neutral. But you’re a dishonest liar. You know women are forced into child rearing roles more than men. You pretend because *You* won’t (Though you sound like you’d expect the wife to do most of the work anyway. Sorry, girlfriend), it doesn’t happen, and isn’t the predominant cultural practice.
That’s not a change from most fathers’ involvement with their children. Ever heard of the phenomena of dads ‘babysitting’ their own children?
This is an outright lie. I expect no better from a Men’s Rights’ Libertarian.
Only if the woman is the primary caretaker and follows court orders regarding custody, you dishonest piece of shit.
Actually the fact that men even are involved is a direct result of feminism-it used to be that a man had a wife and kids but was not expected to do squat with the kids. Maybe play ball with the son now and then and of course clean a gun while the daughter’s suitor was calling. Now he can (although it would be nice if he was not lauded for doing what he should be doing in the first place) and fewer and fewer people bat an eye. There are still women out there who tend to not trust men around children because they do not think men can do that but those also tend to not be feminists.
And if a man asks for custody, he is just as likely as a woman to get it in a divorce. The problem is getting men to ask (which is something that fathers rights groups really should address.) Women are also losing custody battles lose custody cases when they are not the primary caregiver.
As for opposing default shared custody laws: reason one
reason two
reason three
I could go on but I am too depressed now.
Brandon: So, shorter you: Feminists need to support my pet projects or all of feminism is rubbish. Again. Someone very wise once give the definition of insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
@Rutee: So when does individual choice come into play? Never?
Women are choosing to work less hours then men. Women make up the majority of part time work.
Hiring bias depends on what industry you are applying to. Women might have a bias against them in male dominated jobs but what if a man wanted to run a day care center? Mothers would think there was something wrong with the man. Or they would refuse to hand over their kids to a male day care provider.
Promotion bias could be attributed to men being more aggressive with asking/demanding raises or better learned negotiating skills. That is not men’s fault because women don’t want to force the issue of getting a promotion like lots of men do. Fix the bias by learning how to assert yourself and properly sell yourself to your boss as to why you deserve a raise.
You want women to be 70% of upper management? Start more female owned companies (e.g Curves).
I wouldn’t say I would never work against my own interests. But I certainly would have to have a fairly good reason to do it. And I certainly wouldn’t do it for people that see me as a hostile oppressor. It would seem my help would go unappreciated.
Bringing up garbage workers wasn’t a dig at the men that do those jobs, just that most of the dirtiest jobs are not done by women but men. While men tend to look strictly at their paycheck, women value a clean work environment.
http://www.businessinsider.com/actually-the-gender-pay-gap-is-just-a-myth-2011-3?op=1
Ha! That’s funny. You’re funny. 😀
@Bagelsan: OK in what possible scenario can a man order you to have a child in the US?
Wow, that was hard…
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-07-23-anti-abortion-laws_n.htm
Move you to Texas, live in the middle of no where and here is the kicker, keep you from a car.
@Cynical: umm…adoption.
@Elizabeth: Ah Texas. Still adoption.
Also, that example was about government policies not men in general.
I am talking about me forcing you to have a child. Me as a single man ordering you to have a child.
Alright. How can I, as a single woman, order you to have a child?
@cynickal
“OK in what possible scenario can a man order you to have a child in the US?
Wow, that was hard…
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-07-23-anti-abortion-laws_n.htm”
That’s not a man, that’s Big Daddy, your huband, father and deity rolled up into one making the rules. I know you all love slaughtering unborn children but damn, have the slightest bit of compassion. I mean by that time the kid can feel pain. Shit, why not make abortion till the kid has the cord cut, that way you can change your mind if the fucker crys too loud for your taste. Women who love too much. Wasn’t that a favorite book of female enlightenment?
In other words, if you do not raise the child you have not been forced to have a child.
Once again Brandon, you lack logic. If a woman is unable to get to a clinic that provides either birth control or an abortion post conception because of the man she is having intimate relations with, he is doing exactly what you claimed a man cannot do…force a woman to have a child.
color me shocked that abortion is on the list of things owlslave faultily assumes hes an expert on
I know you all love slaughtering unborn children but damn, have the slightest bit of compassion.
You can Fuck. Right. Off. You do not know what I feel or what I want. You think you do, but you’re an asshole who doesn’t know shit. Quit assuming anything about anyone here but yourself, please.
In New Hampshire, the all male New Hampshire Executive Council voted to defund Planned Parenthood (which is how many women are able to obtain birth control and other needed reproductive services-which does include pre-natal care) that the female led state legislature had repeatedly decided to fund.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/new-hampshire-planned-parenthood_n_894991.html
Now those women can just not have sex. They can just go home to their husbands and boyfriends and say “nope, no sex.” What would you do if your girlfriend said that? And what would you expect a woman with an abusive boyfriend/husband to do?
and of course usatoday uses a weasel term like ‘disputed’ to elide the lack of evidence the fetal pain crew has going for them
Now those women can just not have sex. They can just go home to their husbands and boyfriends and say “nope, no sex.” What would you do if your girlfriend said that? And what would you expect a woman with an abusive boyfriend/husband to do?
pfkaLiz, you forget owlslave lives inside the feminist-industrial complex, where a man can get 10-15 years for kissing his wife without her express written permission
Brandon complains that marriage is the government forcing him to support someone else, but anti-abortion laws don’t count in the same way? It’s now about him as a single person?
Yeah, Magpie, I thought we were talking about institutions which force men to support women by paying alimony (very rarely), but now it’s all about Brandon’s ability to force his gf to have a child.
Also Brandon the ‘adopt it out!’ option completely ignores the whole ‘bodily autonomy’ thing. Last I checked, being pregnant with all the attendant symptoms and pushing a human being out of your vagina or having someone cut you and your reproductive organs open to get a kid out isn’t exactly a ‘non-event’.