I found this illustrating a typically incoherent rant about “The Aphrodisiac of the False Rape Claim” on What Men Are Saying About Women, the blog of the infamous MRA double period. Whoever made it needs to stop making Demotivational posters because he doesn’t understand how these posters are supposed to work. Or how to communicate a coherent message to other human beings using language.
Women are responsible for more abuse of children than men, especially when neglect is taken into account -and it is- as a primary form of abuse. Women are also more likely to be the primary caretakers of children so the numbers are not surprising.
What, precisely, does this have to do with sexual assault, rape, and attempted rape. Are you suggesting that rape is some sort of karmic balance for child abuse or that child abuse inoculates women from sexual assault? Or that we shouldn’t care if some women are raped because some women are child abusers?
Fewer words, more clarity. Please.
Every group has members that do bad things. Of course there are violent/abusive women. That’s why people refer to the “cycle of violence”- because the more violent acts people commit, the more psychological difficulties people have, which makes it harder for them to have healthy relationships… The vast majority of violent people are “normal” people who, through a combination of life circumstance and lack of personal responsibility, have decided to give in to their more negative, destructive impulses.
As a feminist, I’m mostly interested in breaking this cycle. I’m interested in doing it on multiple fronts, as many as necessary. It’s not a “zing” to feminists when you mention woman-on-child abuse. We abhor it, too. We want *everyone* to appeal to the better angels of our nature.
What is difficult about this?
It is never clear where these nebulous claims [x% – insert your favorite number – of rapes are not reported] come from. Did they come from anonymous surveys? From ER stats? From a doctor’s reported feeyalings, a hunch maybe? Because a well-credentialed officer working in a police department said so?
And besides, why should we believe anonymous surveys? They are notoriously unreliable for a number of reasons, from how the questions are asked, to the subjective motivations of the respondents. I’ve stumbled across the odd study finding exactly that. Even in anonymous surveys, people do have motivations to lie. Maybe it’s a self-esteem thing, whatever. In those instances in which they are used, I have reason to doubt the efficacy of anonymous surveys.
What, precisely, does this have to do with sexual assault, rape, and attempted rape. Are you suggesting that rape is some sort of karmic balance for child abuse or that child abuse inoculates women from sexual assault? Or that we shouldn’t care if some women are raped because some women are child abusers?
Probably what it is is that he thinks we’re trying to defend child abuse like MRAs defend rape. Remember, the MRA movement is convinced that feminism is its mirror image.
Are men raped? I mean, statistically, men have lower rates of reporting rape and sexual assault to law enforcement than women. The Bureau of Justice states that 1 in 6 men and boys will be subject to sexual assault and/or rape.
Is that number just a result of frothy later and “feeyalings” as well?
Typo: “…frothy lather…”
“Probably what it is is that he thinks we’re trying to defend child abuse like MRAs defend rape. Remember, the MRA movement is convinced that feminism is its mirror image.”
NWO had a meltdown when presented with some of the numbers and statistical analysis surrounding sexual assault in the U.S. It seems that chuckeedee is swathing his gray matter in a protective layer of bubble wrap and attempting to use crude diversionary tactics to escape a similar fate.
Nobody in the social sciences thinks that surveys are foolproof. Meta-analyses of surveys are somewhat more reliable. Given the existing data, professional statisticians (not even feminists, per se, but whoever works for the particular government agencies and non-profit organizations- often professional statisticians for hire, not politicians) have determined that rapes are pretty drastically underreported.
Why would women lie on an anonymous survey about being raped? What purpose would that serve? Any motivation a woman may have to get someone in trouble or “hide” an encounter from the world goes out the window in an anonymous survey. If anything, the results would be skewed because men would be likely to continue to lie because no one wants to admit to doing something illegal.
This is why the “Meet the Predators” stats are so alarming. When you take the word “rape” away, but present men with a variety of situations that are by definition rape, many more men will admit to engaging in rape. Men who, if you said outright “are you a rapist?” would deny it. Does this not alarm you? Are you not afraid for your girlfriend/sister/mother/daughter?
I think one of my favorite bits of stupid from that entire bowl of what-the-fuck is the implication that hospitals have a financial incentive to perform rape kits.
Voip, I’m saying, in the first instance, as I wrote it, that feminists don’t care about child abuse because it is not about their self-indulgent selves. Other more pragmatic motivations also come into play (e.g., it clashes with the culture of chivalry, and sullies the popular view of women as virtuous angels). Do you have some reason to believe that more pragmatic, political/publicity/media-related motivations do not hold not true? Are you that naive?
Nobinayamu, are you able to counter my arguments with an argument of your own? All you seem to be capable of is skiting and rambling. Are you even capable of rational thought?
“Why would women lie on an anonymous survey about being raped? What purpose would that serve? Any motivation a woman may have to get someone in trouble or “hide” an encounter from the world goes out the window in an anonymous survey. If anything, the results would be skewed because men would be likely to continue to lie because no one wants to admit to doing something illegal. ”
Also, would women lying about being raped be greater, less, or equal to the number of women lying about not being raped?
I agree that these are valid questions to have about surveys, but NF4ever also makes a great point that, if anything, we would expect the number of men reporting that they had raped someone to be lower than the actual figure. While this doesn’t allow us to accurately predict the number of survivors who did not report their rapes, it does tell us that a scary number of people are raping.
“It’s not a “zing” to feminists when you mention woman-on-child abuse. We abhor it, too. We want *everyone* to appeal to the better angels of our nature.”
Seconded. Many of the problems that you abhor, chuckeedee, can be solved by more feminism. It’s not the League of Evil where women and their “magina lapdogs” think of elaborate ways to fuck men over, it’s more like the Justice League or the Avengers, where people from different backgrounds come together to solve problems. Sure there’s debate, but what movement doesn’t have debate or disagreements? Good movements, however, fix the problems within their movement or disown the outliers
I mean, really, who praises Mary Daly or Valerie Solanas these days? Those folks have been debunked, criticized and disowned for more times than one can count, and one isn’t exactly breaking new ground by going on a screed about how horrible SCUM Manifesto is, so feminists move on to current things, important things, problems that even affect everyone, whether one has a dick or otherwise.
“Voip, I’m saying, in the first instance, as I wrote it, that feminists don’t care about child abuse because it is not about their self-indulgent selves. Other more pragmatic motivations also come into play (e.g., it clashes with the culture of chivalry, and sullies the popular view of women as virtuous angels). Do you have some reason to believe that more pragmatic, political/publicity/media-related motivations do not hold not true? Are you that naive?”
[Citation Needed]
Why would they tell the truth? Sometimes people provide answers to mock them. Sometimes surveys are an intrusion that people just want to piss on, and not take seriously.
Chuckeedee, I realize that you’re incredibly obtuse and probably wouldn’t recognize a rational idea if it crawled up your ass and laid eggs but spare me your juvenile sniping and pay attention to what I’ve actually written. Scroll up.
I’ve asked you several questions in direct response to your assertions. As for countering your arguments with my own I don’t really see the point. You haven’t made any serious arguments. Dickens level word counts aside, your only argument is “Women are overly emotional and lie about rape. Also, child abuse.”
You haven’t provided any data to back your claims outside of information about child abuse with which I do not disagree. You’ve indulged in some hyperbolic rhetoric, thrown around some innuendo and, as per your usual modus operandi, used a lot big words to say precious little. Make a rational, fact based argument and maybe I’ll take the time to offer a cogent rebuttal. Answer the questions I’ve asked, directly and without dissembling, and maybe I’ll engage you in a serious -if adversarial- discussion.
Bring me a bowl of stupid and I’ll have nothing for you but derision.
Besides, in a day or two you’ll be contradicting everything you’ve written anyway.
Statistics about men who have been the victims of rape and sexual assault are also gathered, in part, from anonymous surveys. Are men the victims of rape and sexual assault or are you suggesting that those numbers are also artificially inflated?
What evidence can you cite that women taking anonymous surveys about sexual assault feel that they’re intrusive? What would make a woman more likely to lie on a survey that she found intrusive as opposed to simply refusing to participate?
Sometimes people provide answers to mock them. Sometimes surveys are an intrusion that people just want to piss on, and not take seriously.
Assuming that all women who take those surveys do that all the time is bonkers, though.
Chuckeedee, I realize that you’re incredibly obtuse and probably wouldn’t recognize a rational idea if it crawled up your ass and laid eggs but spare me your juvenile sniping and pay attention to what I’ve actually written. Scroll up.
Hahahaha you own. I wish I knew as much about shit, and was able to express it as eloquently, as you.
“Assuming that all women who take those surveys do that all the time is bonkers, though.”
Just remember, Voip:
“We must remember that, even when telling “sort-of-half-truths”, many women are self-indulgent creatures who love to work themselves into a lather, especially when they are drawing attention to themselves – and if there’s a grain of truth, like some dude looks at her in a rapey kind of way, that becomes rape, and froth for the lathering process.” -chukeedee
Yet another lose-lose situation set up for women, courtesy of chukeedee and his ilk.
The hilarious thing about this is that if this were true, if half the human race were nothing more than mental children, “self-indulgent creatures who love to work themselves into a lather, especially when they are drawing attention to themselves,” no polls would work at all, not just polls about rape. No market research, no straw polls, no surveys to see how our elected officials are doing. There would be no data in any situation in which it became necessary to consult the public about stuff.
In fact, there would be no such thing as “public opinion,” and so no modern politics. The way human beings (women, anyway, if you can call such creatures “human”) would be completely random.
“There would be no data in any situation in which it became necessary to consult the public about stuff.”
Isn’t that what MRAs strive for, though? A world in which there is no scientific fact or human empathy, a world that ruled by the fist, not by intellect and is (for men at least) pretty much like a “Click here to get a free iPad” ad, except that it works and you get lots of poon along with the iPad*?
Yep, that’s the MRA/MGTOW utopia in a nutshell.
*Come to think of it…if there was no data in a MRA world that is accurate simply because they say so, and that becomes true…wouldn’t that destroy 95% of the worlds inventions that people take for granted, if that?
<i.The way human beings (women, anyway, if you can call such creatures “human”) would be completely random.
Goddamn it, I accidentally the verb.
The way human beings INTERACTED WITH ONE ANOTHER would be completely random.
VoiP, I don’t mind telling you, I’m a bit of a fan. Your Grandpa Simpson post the other day made me do a spit take.
And, yes, if chuckeedee’s assumptions (heavy on the “ass”) about the validity of anonymous surveys were even remotely plausible, nearly everything we know about polls, marketing analysis, public opinion etc. would be null and void. Still, it’s highly unlikely that he’s thought that carefully about what he’s written.
Just off the top of my head: bell hooks, a radical feminist/womanist, wrote about child abuse by women of boys, most notably in We Real Cool: Black Men and Masculinity. Or does she not count?
Ozymandias, bell hooks is a Black feminist. She, most assuredly, doesn’t count.* The only feminists of import are Dworkin and Solanas. Maybe Twisty, too.
*bell hooks has, and continues to be, a major influence on my own expression and understanding of feminism and womanism. And I’ve been able to recite Gwendolyn Brooks’ poem We Real Cool, since I was eight. Alternative school.