Sometimes the fellows on MGTOWforums.com get all philosophical on us. At the moment they are discussing a question of great import: Are women incapable of love to the degree men love?
I suspect you can guess their unanimous answer – women are incapable of love — which is pretty much what you’d expect men who hate women to say about women and love. Some highlights:
Fairi5fair thinks women are monsters; he just can’t figure out which kind:
Women are just incapable of love period. The thrill of being able to use her pussy to get free shit is what women mistake for “love”. …
They are cold, grasping, selfish, and heartless parasites. They have no souls. They are all vampires. Undead zombies lurching from meal to meal.
Wait, so are they vampires or are they zombies? I think I can handle either one by itself, but if they are both at the same time we’re doomed!
Goldenfetus seems to be smoking something powerful:
Yes, they are less capable of love than men, or totally incapable.
One possibility I’ve considered is that in a natural … environment male ‘love’ (platonic) would be reserved only for other men, while women would be viewed as property or objects of reproduction whose value was derived from fertility and subservience without any basis in ‘love’ reciprocation. If so, I would identify feminism as the factor that misled men into extending this love, disastrously, to females – tricking them into believing that females have souls and are like males.
Loving a woman is like trying to pet a toilet, water a sandwich, or plow a parking lot and then wondering why you aren’t getting results. The defect (of understanding) lies with the man loving an object incompatible with love, rather than in the female whose nature precludes reciprocity.
Arctic thinks it’s all about the Benjamins:
Love to a woman is a man who is their servant 24/7 365 a day. …
The idea of love involving sacrifice to a female is as foreign as periods are to men. Why should she care about a relationship involving sacrifice on her part, when she is taught all her life to exploit men for her own uses? Sacrifice herself for a mere man? WHY? Why, when beta males are selling their souls to sniff her crotch? …
[I]ts safe to say the idea of women being in love begins and ends at the ATM of her committed male asset.
The Accomplice agrees:
Women do not seek love or companionship. Their main objective is to find a man of the highest status possible (Richest men, the toughest guys, most popular guy etc) who will protect them, provide for them and satisfy their selfish desires. … [T]he majority of women are too weak physically and mentally to do these things on their own, hence why they always chase after men …
A women’s idea of love is all hypergamy, nothing more.
Superion goes all Evo-Psych on us:
Women are incapapble of love is the great, horrible secret that society has tried to hide from men since the dawn of time.
Women are physically and mentally weaker than men.
In order to survive and pass on their genes they need the resources of the strongest and best providing male available.
To do this, women rely on beauty and guile to trick a male into being her slave.
Women do not love.
For men, love is a self-delusion.
We trick ourselves into wasting our resources on one particular female.
This makes no sense so we tell ourselves we’re in love to justify it.
Such an unromantic bunch! Maybe this will cheer them up.
Actually, screw them. Maybe it will cheer me up:
And if that didn’t do the trick, how about this?
Pshaw. We feminists don’t feel threatened by the MRM; we have the entire apparatus of the state (and the Illuminati, I’ve been told?) and we control the banks/schools/government/military/courts with our magical omnipotent vagoos! And the beta males, I believe. And we would probably just nuke all the men with said vagoos if we wanted because we control all the sex, or something, which is practically the same as having nuklear genitals. Because men are the oppressed ones and women are all-powerful. Duh.
@ Pecunium; I’ll see if I can find your stuff and send it on to NJ…
@QWERTY
There’s a standing challenge up to find MRA or MGTOW websites that aren’t misogynist. So far nobody’s been able to meet it. So, where are these non-misogynist MRAs and MGTOWs?
“What I find rather odd about the Manboobz blog is in understanding it’s purpose. As has been pointed out to me the idea is to “mock misogyny”, but I find it hard to grasp why anyone would want to do this. I find it a rather strange activity to spend your time with i.e. to actively look for examples of people who are displaying hatred and then to laugh at them rather than try to understand the cause of their hatred, as if it is somehow inherent to their being and not born of external forces. I struggle to understand where the motivation for this must come from. That aside, if that is your aim then you are doing a fine job of laughing at other people.”
I will admit that this is one of my weirder hobbies. I think the answer lies somewhere between the fact that I really, REALLY enjoy procrastinating and the fact that I’m a huge social issues geek.
We have tried to understand the causes of these guy’s behavior and… they just don’t hold water. They seem to come down to a misunderstanding about the world they’re entirely unwilling to examine, a need for sex that’s blown all out of proportion, or misplaced anger issues. None of these justify the way they view women.
Molly wins the thread.
qwert666: You seem to be laboring under the idea that your agenda matters to anyone here but yourself.
Our agenda is to mock misogyny. Usually we don’t get to enjoy that in its pure form because misogynists (e.g. your own lovely self) show up and we end up mocking them.
This isn’t so much because misogynists are inherently mockworthy (there being a slight difference between the two, much like sins and sinners) but because most of you have not enough self-awareness, nor wit, to be clever enough to engage in raparté, when you fail in argument.
You are laboring under idea that misogyny is different from any other bigotry (I suspect this is because, as a misogynist, you would like to think your irrartional prejudice is somehow special, and so justified. It’s not).
The idea that we are worried about the “rise” of the MRM is not quite correct. As with any other anti-social group I have concerns that they may metastasize to an actual threat of some sort. As a political force, they are a farce. When clamoring that someone who chose self-immolation instead of a court battle, or the simple payment of a fine he said he could arrange to pay, is used as a rallying cry; to show that if women don’t “come to their senses” and let the MRM take over… it’s not a credible challenge to groups, that no matter how splintered in the details have a common vision; and a willingness to actually mobilise and agitate in the hurly-burly of politics.
When that same movement (the MRM) is complaining they are second class citizens goes against the idea you proffer that feminism is, “powerless” in the face of the rising MRM.
You, BTW, are wrong in the assertion that you are not obliged to show how Dave has distorted meaning. You have made the charge. Unless you can show what you mean by it, it’s an empty charge. It means nothing, because you have given nothing.
Oh my God, we’re…unpleasant! Maybe even *gasp*…shrill? Look dude, I may be a chick but my purpose in life is not to make you comfortable. If you don’t like that, goddamn Go Your Own Way already and deal with it.
“we control the …
banks [no]
schools [100% controlled by feminists]
government [democrats 100%, republicans 50% controlled by feminists]
military [scared of feminism, not controlled yet]
courts [100% controlled by feminists]”
To obtain these statistics, I consulted the magical wellspring of knowledge directly under my tail. Woof woof woof!
I think we can all agree, the world would be a better place if men’s rights advocates had ACADEMIC DEPARTMENTS DOING RESEARCH ON BEHALF OF MEN … kind of like the 600 tax payer funded women’s studies departments in the United States.
Then, we could all put away our pooper scoopers. Pheeew!
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk8vs1pKW5A&w=420&h=345%5D
Stephin Merritt has some interesting things to say on the subject.
To obtain these statistics, I consulted the magical wellspring of knowledge directly under my tail. Woof woof woof!
Wow, you’re slipping. Almost like we’re getting to you.
Also, research on a group need not be, and frequently isn’t, research on behalf of that group’s interests. Men’s studies already exists; chauvinists just don’t like its findings, is all.
I’m glad that the comments have moved on to other topics, but the MRA shipwreck stats made me laugh out loud. It’s sad and hilarious that these toolbags are using the Titanic as an example of ‘pussy privilege’ or whatever, when ‘women and children first’ is an entirely Patriarchal idea. Just goes to show how these people have to grasp at straws to make their idiotic point.
Thanks for the Howard Jones clip! One of my favorite songs from the eighties …
@Voip
I’m not an MRA and I’m not involved in the MRM I’m a MGHOW. The concept of a MGTOW lifestyle is quite hard to define, because it is so very diverse, but I assure you it has nothing to do with misogyny. The thing with MGTOW is that, for most men, there is no apparent need to GYOW until something forces them to do so e.g. your wife leaves you unexpectedly and you lose contact with your children. Such events often lead men to MGTOW and when they arrive there they are very angry individuals, and quite rightly so. I believe that it is a perfectly natural and healthy reaction to such events to want to vent your anger at the people who have caused you to experience them. Quite often, I believe, this anger is misplaced and hence misogynistic. But MGTOW do not, I believe, hate women. They are simply trying to come to terms with their situation and, in my particular case, to revaluate their position in society and their view of it. The thing is, I think, that once men have come to terms with their anger they tend to be too busy GTOW to really have much of an online presence. Often the voices you hear are those of the men still in this stage of development, they are struggling to GTOW.
@ Pencunium
“Our agenda is to mock misogyny. Usually we don’t get to enjoy that in its pure form because misogynists (e.g. your own lovely self) show up and we end up mocking them.”
It is comments such as this that I find troubling. I’m not exactly sure how you have arrived at the conclusion that I am a misogynist. Kindly provide evidence of this baseless and personal attack or withdraw it and apologise. You are making yourself look bigoted and foolish.
@ Kendra – good on you for quoting “The Rose.” Here’s the part that really applies:
When the night has been too lonely,
and the road has been too long,
When you think that love is only
For the lucky, and the strong —
Just remember, in the winter,
far beneath the bitter snow,
lies the seed, that with the sun’s love,
in the spring, becomes the rose.
I wish these MGTOW and MRA types who are so sure that they can never be loved could just pay attention to life. Try encountering people – even female people! in a new way. (After all, who are “the lucky and the strong,” if not their “Alphas?”)
Zarat – I know you’re new, so I’ll explain. What was being referenced there as patently ridiculous, was arguments that NWOslave has made about feminism, that is, that feminists are in charge of EVERYTHING and that there is an enormous conspiracy going on. Not sure how the defunding of planned parenthood (as an example) has to do with that, but NWOslave is uninterested in facts or telling the truth or being consistent in his arguments.
@Bruce McGlory, that is hilarious you kissed Fred Phelp’s with your tongue. You are my hero. I can’t stand that guy. He recently decided to add to his website a section on God hating Missouri after the Joplin tornado. They planned a picket of the memorial service (there are 160 casualties as of now). Apparently, some truckers and bikers persuaded them to stay out of Joplin. I can’t even say what people here in Joplin were saying about the Westboro Baptist Church, but believe me, none of us are too fond of that bunch.
Also, I really heart cartoon Rogue!
So, what about blaming an entire class for the actions of one of its members
(the thought process you describe here: “The thing with MGTOW is that, for most men, there is no apparent need to GYOW until something forces them to do so e.g. your wife leaves you unexpectedly and you lose contact with your children. Such events often lead men to MGTOW and when they arrive there they are very angry individuals, and quite rightly so”) isn’t bigoted? I think that’s one of the textbook definitions of bias, as a matter of fact.
@VoiP
I’m really confused by your question. I was clearly being accused of being a misogynist, where is the evidence for this?
Qwert66, you have asked a couple of times if you are being accused of misogyny. Just for the record, are you a misogynist?
MGTOW withdraw from societies that they believe to be insufficiently respectful of men, or withdraw from the company of women altogether. That’s all women.
A man GHOW after a divorce is blaming all women for the actions of one woman.
Blaming an entire class for the actions of one of its members is bias.
I’m not saying that you are a misogynist, I’m saying that the MGTOW movement, which you support, is misogynist.
“As has been pointed out to me the idea is to “mock misogyny”, but I find it hard to grasp why anyone would want to do this. I find it a rather strange activity to spend your time with i.e. to actively look for examples of people who are displaying hatred and then to laugh at them rather than try to understand the cause of their hatred, as if it is somehow inherent to their being and not born of external forces.”
You find it hard to grasp why we’d want to mock misogyny? Here’s a definition of mocking: 1. To treat with ridicule or contempt; deride. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mock). I think that deriding and ridiculing a bigoted view is a pretty legitimate way of spending my free time. It’s about treating misogyny in the way it deserves – with contempt. It is a contemptible outlook. No-one gets to hate a whole group because of the actions of one person from that group – this denies the humanity and diversity of that group. I don’t hate men, there are very few feminists who do and they are mostly outliers, while in the MRM and from what I have seen of the MGTOW sites – hatred of women is pretty normal and sanctioned. This is uncool. So we treat it with the contempt it deserves.
Perhaps there are a few men in the movement who are genuinely traumatised by the actions of women (not being able to get laid, being divorced and having to help pay to raise your own children – not traumatic, imo), and they might benefit from a more sympathetic response to their angst. And, to this I would point out that we have spent almost entire threads devoted to MRAL’s angst (he is a regular MRA who comments here) and helping him deal with it so that he can actually have a mutually awesome relationship with a woman rather than going around the world thinking they’re out to get him. However, trauma doesn’t excuse being a hate-filled person who posts things about, oh, how great it is that women get cancer, and about how women should dress in certain ways otherwise they deserve to get raped (just a few recent examples).