Sometimes the fellows on MGTOWforums.com get all philosophical on us. At the moment they are discussing a question of great import: Are women incapable of love to the degree men love?
I suspect you can guess their unanimous answer – women are incapable of love — which is pretty much what you’d expect men who hate women to say about women and love. Some highlights:
Fairi5fair thinks women are monsters; he just can’t figure out which kind:
Women are just incapable of love period. The thrill of being able to use her pussy to get free shit is what women mistake for “love”. …
They are cold, grasping, selfish, and heartless parasites. They have no souls. They are all vampires. Undead zombies lurching from meal to meal.
Wait, so are they vampires or are they zombies? I think I can handle either one by itself, but if they are both at the same time we’re doomed!
Goldenfetus seems to be smoking something powerful:
Yes, they are less capable of love than men, or totally incapable.
One possibility I’ve considered is that in a natural … environment male ‘love’ (platonic) would be reserved only for other men, while women would be viewed as property or objects of reproduction whose value was derived from fertility and subservience without any basis in ‘love’ reciprocation. If so, I would identify feminism as the factor that misled men into extending this love, disastrously, to females – tricking them into believing that females have souls and are like males.
Loving a woman is like trying to pet a toilet, water a sandwich, or plow a parking lot and then wondering why you aren’t getting results. The defect (of understanding) lies with the man loving an object incompatible with love, rather than in the female whose nature precludes reciprocity.
Arctic thinks it’s all about the Benjamins:
Love to a woman is a man who is their servant 24/7 365 a day. …
The idea of love involving sacrifice to a female is as foreign as periods are to men. Why should she care about a relationship involving sacrifice on her part, when she is taught all her life to exploit men for her own uses? Sacrifice herself for a mere man? WHY? Why, when beta males are selling their souls to sniff her crotch? …
[I]ts safe to say the idea of women being in love begins and ends at the ATM of her committed male asset.
The Accomplice agrees:
Women do not seek love or companionship. Their main objective is to find a man of the highest status possible (Richest men, the toughest guys, most popular guy etc) who will protect them, provide for them and satisfy their selfish desires. … [T]he majority of women are too weak physically and mentally to do these things on their own, hence why they always chase after men …
A women’s idea of love is all hypergamy, nothing more.
Superion goes all Evo-Psych on us:
Women are incapapble of love is the great, horrible secret that society has tried to hide from men since the dawn of time.
Women are physically and mentally weaker than men.
In order to survive and pass on their genes they need the resources of the strongest and best providing male available.
To do this, women rely on beauty and guile to trick a male into being her slave.
Women do not love.
For men, love is a self-delusion.
We trick ourselves into wasting our resources on one particular female.
This makes no sense so we tell ourselves we’re in love to justify it.
Such an unromantic bunch! Maybe this will cheer them up.
Actually, screw them. Maybe it will cheer me up:
And if that didn’t do the trick, how about this?
“If your sole reason to GYOW is a hatred of women of course this is misogyny, and a pretty poor reason to GYOW in my view.”
This should read :
If any part of your reasoning to GYOW is a hatred of women of course this is misogyny. I believe misogyny to be a pretty poor reason to GYOW in my view.
@ Pecunium
“If you are willing to say they have none, that the reasons they see for going their own way are based on a misbegotten set of ideas about women, then I will accept that you are not a misogynist.”
This is very clever by the way, but I can see quite clearly that you are attempting to trick me into incriminating myself. You offer up this simple proposal that if I accept, and let you put your words into my mouth, then in doing so I will prove that I am not a misogynist, when in fact, and to the contrary, you will claim that I have admitted that I am one. If I were to agree with your statement then, in doing so, I would admit that all MGTOW are misogynists, which of course (as I have explained quite clearly above) they are not, and in doing so you would suggest that if I identify as a MGHOW this would be an admittance of my own misogyny.
Sadly, for you, you can not trick yourself out of the hole you have dug. You must instead, ask me to pull you out of it by admitting that you were wrong to accuse me as you did and apologise accordingly. This, unfortunately for you, is the only way out of your predicament. I have a feeling however that your need to save face in front of your peers will prevent you from doing so, and therefore, you will forever remain stuck at the bottom of the hole.
“Not all women will divorce their husbands, but all women can, and no woman can divorce a man that she is not married to.”
You know that men can divorce women too, right? Or just co-habitate and not get married, so that each person controls their own assets? Why do they need to leave society entirely in order to do this?
@ Molly Ren
“You know that men can divorce women too, right? Or just co-habitate and not get married, so that each person controls their own assets? Why do they need to leave society entirely in order to do this?”
Of course men can divorce women too. But understand that I’m speaking from the perspective of a MGHOW. If I want to avoid being divorced then I avoid marriage. This is GMOW. If I cohabit and, as in my country, there is no de-facto relationship laws or common law marriage. Then you are correct, I would protect my assets and could therefore be considered to be GMOW. The limit at which I am prepared to have a relationship with women is at the point of cohabitation. I won’t cohabit. But this is simply because I enjoy living alone. This is what I meant earlier by a relationship on my own terms. This, as you may see, is not leaving society altogether, this is just me GMOW.
qwert666, you basically seem to be saying “I support the Men Going Their Own Way, even though I think it’s wrong that they’re misogynist! I’m not a misogynist!”
But if you’re not, why are you defending them? If you think current marriage laws are unfair, there are plenty of other ways to attack the problem (look at some of the discussions had by gay communities that don’t support marriage). If you think Going Your Own Way somehow stands for “living your own free life”, you’re misenterpreting how it’s often used (Man Boobz has a standing challenge asking for links to non-misgynist MGTOW blogs which has never been answered.) Heck, if you think living off the grid is romantic, there are plenty of other groups you could ally yourself to that don’t believe in moden culture or civilization, but leave the women-hating out of it!
What exactly attracts you about these guys if you’re *not* misogynist?
@ Molly Ren
I’m not saying ““I support the Men Going Their Own Way, “ I’m saying I am a MGHOW. There is no such thing as the group “MGTOW” MGTOW is not an organised group and MGTOW don’t have a shared goal beyond Going Their Own Way, as individuals. MGTOW is just a collective term for a number of individual MGTOW, or in other words, a group of individuals who are GTOW, a way that is unique to them. That’s why it is pointless to try and classify MGTOW as a movement or group, because GYOW means nothing more then living your own life, as you see fit, as free from the pressures and restrictions that society tries to place upon you as a man as you can manage to do. If a particular MGHOW is a misogynist, I don’t believe that this has any effect on the meaning of MGTOW in the way that I have interpreted it to mean, as in, me GMOW. There are plenty of MGTOW in the world who would likely not have any idea what MGTOW means. They won’t even have heard the term. However they are MGTOW because they are GTOW.
““I support the Men Going Their Own Way, even though I think it’s wrong that they’re misogynist! I’m not a misogynist!””
Again, I don’t believe that all MGTOW are misogynists, some clearly are, but not all, me for one.
If a misogynist is GHOW then he is, by definition, still GHOW, and regardless of his motivation I have to respect the fact that he is GHOW, whether or not I agree with his reasoning for doing so. I also understand that it is not possible for everyone to GTOW because I doubt very much that many people would have the necessary abilities required to do so. And no, I don’t believe misogyny to be one of these abilities. I am also of the opinion that if a sufficient number of men went their own way then, in all likelihood society as we know it would collapse. So I believe that it will, in fact, remain the case that very few men will be prepared or able to GTOW.
I have no interest in trying to change the current marriage, or rather, divorce laws, I assume that’s what the MRM might want to do. I could see it as possibly benefiting society to have a fairer arrangement for marriage, but why would I waste my own precious time trying to convince the world to make such changes when I can simply avoid marriage and as easily as that, avoid the problems associated with it? There is, in my view, no benefit for a man to marry and therefore it’s not something that I waste my time worrying about.
“Heck, if you think living off the grid is romantic, there are plenty of other groups you could ally yourself to that don’t believe in moden culture or civilization, but leave the women-hating out of it!”
I have no grand plan as to how I think society or civilization should or shouldn’t be or how I would like it to be. I can’t, at the moment, see any better way that I could possibly live than to GMOW. Again, I am not allying myself to a group, I am GMOW, there is no group there is just a MGHOW, and that man is me. Also it isn’t a case of romanticizing, it’s more like what is best for me, what is in my best interests, what is the best way for me to live.
I can understand why the concept of MGTOW might be confusing for people to comprehend fully. As I read this comment back I am aware of how confusing this will probably read to you but I have at least tried to explain MGTOW a bit better for you. At least in as far as my interpretation of it.
Dude.
If you weren’t a part of their group, you wouldn’t be using their terminology.
@ katz
“If you weren’t a part of their group, you wouldn’t be using their terminology.”
If you have read what I have written and still cannot understand it then, although I admit it is complicated, I’d have to question your intellect. I can’t spell it out any clearer than I already have. I’ve tried, I’m sorry that you are unable to grasp what I am talking about, by all means, believe what you want.
Edit to me reply to Molly Ren.
“Again, I don’t believe that all MGTOW are misogynists, some clearly are, but not all, me for one.”
I have worded this quite badly.
It should read:
“Again, I don’t believe that all MGTOW are misogynists, some clearly are, but many are not: me for example.”
You know who else says “You’re just too stupid to understand me!” when people disagree with them?
MRAs.
@ katz
Oh, well then I must be an MRA then, mustn’t I? That’s some really sound logic you are employing there katz.
As it happens you aren’t disagreeing with me though are you? To do that you’d have to offer some sort of reasoning as to what your disagreement is based upon. What you are doing, like your friend Pecunium, who is presently and figuratively sitting in the bottom of a hole, bemused, is making an accusation against me based on flimsy to non-existent evidence.
Yeah, Qwerty. Society’s gonna “collapse” if a bunch of entitled, delusional, violent asswipes leave us all alone. (For someone who is not interested in marriage, you sure talk about it a lot…)
Oh, the dystopian future will be frightening! Will it be like 28 Days Later, where the MGHOW contagion spreads until there’s no one left!?
*makes popcorn*
@ NF4ever
If even half of the male population of America decided to GTOW and, for example, left the country at the same time for greener pastures, so to speak. Do you think that American society would survive, or might it be reasonable to expect it to collapse? Why does this seem to be an amusing idea to you?
I doubt half the male population would GTOW, but if they did, I think we’d muddle through.
@ hellkell
As I said before, I don’t think this is a likely scenario either. There’s no way this many men would GTOW.
“I think we’d muddle through.”
I admire your optimism. I think, however, the reality might be rather different. Let’s hope we never have to find out, eh?
I dunno, Qwert. I’ve known lots of guys- hundreds and thousands- and not one of them is thinking of “going his own way” anytime soon. In a country of over a million men, there are what…? 10,000 MRAs? And that’s being generous.
If the type of men who post on MGTOW websites start actually GTOW, instead of tormenting people on the internet for no apparent reason, I’d consider that a good thing. A real boon for American society. I, for one, look forward to the day that MGTOW stop talking about going their own way and start doing it.
Given that your logic is “You don’t understand me because you’re stupid,” I don’t think you’re in a position to be criticizing other people’s logic.
See, reasonable people know that, if they’re trying to be understood, the onus is upon themselves to communicate effectively. You are deliberately communicating ineffectively and then trumpeting how much smarter you are than everyone else because they’re all misinterpreting you by assuming you meant what the words you said actually mean, rather than the nonsensical meanings you’ve assigned to them.
@ NFever
“I’ve known lots of guys- hundreds and thousands”
*stifles a snigger* 😉
As I’ve said before this situation will most likely never happen. I’m just saying what I think the result would be if it did happen. You could look at it another way: what if half the male population were to suddenly drop dead? The result would be the same.
Anyway, I’m already going my own way. I’m only still here because I’m actually having fun. I’m also patiently waiting for Pecunium’s apology for accusing me of being a misogynist.
David why is it exactly that I now find myself in moderation? Have I upset someone?
@ katz
“You are deliberately communicating ineffectively and then trumpeting how much smarter you are than everyone else because they’re all misinterpreting you by assuming you meant what the words you said actually mean, rather than the nonsensical meanings you’ve assigned to them.”
This is pure gold. You are actually saying that I’m deliberately communicating ineffectively, in order to confuse you. And that this is the cause of your confusion. That you don’t understand me not because you haven’t managed to be able to do so due to some limiting factor of your own, but that I am intentionality confusing you and at the same time assigning new meanings to words which you also do not understand.
To come up with this you are far from stupid. In fact I’d like to congratulate you on doing so, it’s actually very clever.
Qwert666, if not all MGTOW are misogynist, why won’t you link to one thread on mgtowforums that discusses relationships—-or hell, cooking or flower arranging or what books to read—-without misogyny?
I admire your optimism. I think, however, the reality might be rather different. Let’s hope we never have to find out, eh?
I love the implied threat here. Of course you’re not misogynistic.
“I admire your optimism. I think, however, the reality might be rather different. Let’s hope we never have to find out, eh?”
Yes, because your GTOW ilk is so organized and special. I’m sure we’d feel the brain drain immediately. Only not.
@ VoiP
Sorry VoiP. Unfortunately I have to be going now. I notice that you are trying to challenge me again. You do, of course, realise that the conditions of your challenge are rather strict.
Is it a requirement that the entire thread be free from misogyny, as in every single post? This will of course be problematic as just one rouge misogynist could ruin the whole thing. What you are actually setting as a condition is to find a thread discussing a topic in which no misogynist makes a misogynistic comment. As I mentioned to you earlier, I have no doubt that there are misogynists active on MGTOW forums, and some of them have a tendency to be quite prolific with their postings.
If I managed to pass your little test, and I might well do, this wouldn’t actually prove that all MGTOW are not misogynists. What it would prove is that there is a thread on MGTOW forums which contains no trace of misogyny. If I failed your challenge it also would not disprove my theory that not every MGTOW is a misogynist. It would only prove that I was unable to find a thread on MGTOW forums that contained no misogynistic comment. Being as MGTOW forums is but one forum and that many MGTOW (myself included) do not actually actively contribute to such forums, I’m not sure this is the best way to prove what I am saying.
If I find the time tomorrow, I might choose to take you up on your challenge and we’ll see how I get on.
“I love the implied threat here. Of course you’re not misogynistic.”
In all honesty, what on earth are you talking about VoiP? How can this possibly be considered a threat implied or otherwise? If I were to say “lets hope there isn’t nuclear war” am I implying that I’m going to start, attempt to encourage,or even desire a nuclear war? There is no logical basis to what you are saying here.
I’m also starting to think that you have bandied about the term misogynist so many times that it has lost all meaning to you.
Haha. New meme.
One rouge misogynist.