The contest for the Most Ironic Use of the Term “Nice Guy,” When Applied to Yourself –otherwise known as the MIUTNGWAY Award – is heating up. The previous front runner – the Tumblr guy who compared his inability to get laid to the Holocaust – now faces a serious challenge from a Redditor calling himself DogmaDog.
The other day Mr. Dog wandered into a discussion of the SlutWalks in the Feminisms and offered his two cents: he declared them “stupid,” and suggested that they won’t really help victims.
And then he started in on his own tale of woe.
I know I’m going to be shit on for saying what I’m about to say, but please hear me out.
Not a promising start, Dog.
I’ve never raped a woman, and I’m the ‘nice guy’ who never took advantage of a woman.
Do you want an award for this?
But a girl I was infatuated with in high school blew me off and treated me disrespectfully. She ended up being raped one night, while intoxicated. I do not know how I am supposed to feel about it.
As Don Draper would say, “what?”
How do you think you’re “supposed” to feel? Did you accidentally dislodge the part of your brain responsible for basic human empathy?
Apparently, the answer to that is “yes.”
[H]ow do you suppose I am supposed to feel about this woman I knew who got raped? I mean, I’ve never taken advantage of a woman, but I don’t understand how my ‘friend’, this girl I went to high school with, could go out and party all the time, and in turn treat me, her classmate, as though I were an inferior person for not enjoying the atmosphere of drunkenness at high school parties.
As it turns out, you’re an inferior person for an entirely different reason.
That girl was a mean girl, no? And by being disrespectful toward men, and prejudiced toward men, wasn’t she asking men to behave badly toward her? The only men she gave attention and physical affection to were the ones who hurt her back.
So let me see if I get this: she didn’t go out with you, a “nice guy,” so she was therefore “asking” to be raped?
Naturally, this being the Feminisms subreddit, and not The Spearhead, some of the regular commenters took exception to Mr. Dog’s victim-blaming and his complete lack of empathy for the victim – especially strange, since Dog, who says he is suffering from an (unspecified) mental illness, considers himself “a victim, in my own way,” of prejudice towards those with mental health issues. This experience, alas, has not given him any sympathy towards other vicitms.
Indeed, it seems that DogmaDog didn’t misplace his sense of empathy after all; rather, he threw it out of the house and got a restraining order against it. Responding to someone who suggested he show a little empathy, Dog lashed out:
Your empathy can go suck a dick. Empathy does nothing to help my situation. I suppose that is just the excuse people give themselves so that they can feel like they are actually doing something.
You basically called me an inferior human being because I can’t or won’t empathize for my friend who was raped. Well, ask yourself this, smart-ass, have you ever really wondered what good your empathy does? It does nothing. …
In reality, you are doing nothing but attacking me, and I may or may not have a ‘complex’, even though I don’t know what that is, but I can guarantee you, I HAVE NEVER RAPED ANYONE!!!
The sound you hear is me banging my head, ever so softly, on my desk. Empathy is what connects human beings to one another, what allows them to understand one another on a deep level.
When people are suffering – as you are, Dog, in dealing with your mental illness – a little bit of empathy from someone else can make all the difference in the world.
If you can’t feel even a little bit of sympathy for this woman you were once “infatuated” with, you’re not a nice guy at all; you’re an even bigger asshole than those drunken high school partiers you disdain. You may never have raped anyone — as you’ve repeatedly insisted, as if this should win you a prize – but “in your own way” you’re thinking like an abuser. Your lack of empathy for the victim, your continued bitterness towards her for turning you down, your sense of wounded narcissism; none of this is healthy, for you or for anyone who comes into contact with you.
You need help, dude. Please, please get it.
‘This is what happened in NAZI Germany. Courts, paperwork, filing forms, all to whitewash unspeakable crimes. Do you think this blood will ever wash off? Feminism is forever tainted by this horror.’
I wasn’t aware that the Nazis (And apparently China, too) were a feminist movement.
Huh.
Learn something new every day.
Paperwork, filing forms … unspeakable crimes … forever tainted by this horror.
Yeah, I work in an office too.
‘Yeah, I work in an office too.’ Magpie
Magpie, I thank you for making me spew coffee all over my desk. 😀
Why would there be a need for PRISON if fathers could simply “file a form” and get out of it? Are you people capable of rational thought? If it were that simple, NOBODY WOULD GO TO PRISON.
I believe he just suggested that the only reason there are prisons are for the millions of deadbeat dads.
Who, apparently, are also all violent rapists.
Why, thank you Yaz 🙂
Spent the last week printing and filing reams of paperwork in 47 folders, one for each criterion for accreditation. My poor boss looks like the living dead today.
@Anthony Zarat
Women are actual human beings with inherent rights and dignities.
Yep, that’s TOTAL HATRED FOR MEN AND BOYS!!!!!
How about this as a reasonable position, if you create children, you should support them to the best of your ability.
Now for an unreasonable position, all men who lose their jobs are sent to jail for failure to pay child support.
Guess which one happens in the real world? Honestly, you’re becoming tedious and trite with your assertions of fictitious arrests and prison sentences. Show your work or GTFO.
Oh, and Ball? Child abuser.
I’m tired, but looking through this thread. It appears that MRAL has been banned? Maybe he’ll read my response anyway.
He quoted me and answered:
“@Theresa (@BooBooMatrix)
“Parenting not being shared is the number one reason women don’t advance at work, or are held back in some cases.”
But if after divorce men have to fight for equal custody, doesn’t that mean women are holding themselves back? it’s almost like women can’t avoid being victims. And the flip side of the coin is men being unable to avoid being oppressors.”:
—————————————————————————————
Men do not have to fight for custody due to any feminists. In Cali, the default is equal custody. Me and all the single parent moms I EVER knew begged the ex to take the kids while they waited sad by the window and we all joked somberly about how we PAY the ex to do this. It’s common, “I even offer to pay and he won’t come.”
So what you did here, is just ask if men have to fight for custody (can’t they win?) Does that mean women are holding themselves back. Look, mothers will DEFINITELY hold themselves back even if they are married. Because being responsible for a human being is a BIG effing deal, dude. Look around. The assholes you see? Shitty stupid parenting. Not in all cases, but MRAL, please…. then you say “it’s like women can’t avoid being victims”.
Sorry, but that is not an argument, it’s just trying to slander a group and avoid the actual topic. Misappropriation of the word ‘victim’ and using it as a slur is something ABUSERS DO, hands down, plain and simple. It’s true even when feminists do it. Check people that do this, and their over all beliefs, and boom, they’re abusers. Trust.
Your characterization of the dynamic is not an argument. If we’re going to GENERALIZE about what does down in family breakups and family courts, then MRA’s will lose because generally speaking, men are the bad guys here. I say let’s not generalize. My own father fought for me and I know other dads that have fought for their kids and it was a huge victory for everyone, including mom and new husband.
I forgot to answer an aspect tho. If there has been abuse, or the father can’t take care of the kids well, then moms do have to fight. Your assumption that when there is a struggle it’s for now good reason is not founded in any real evidence.
Anecdotal… the family mediator I worked with was scared and from EXPERIENCE she had a button to push for security and I had to be escorted a long ways away from my ex as we left the meeting. Family courts have horrible experiences with DV and based on EXPERIENCE are totally on edge when there is a record of DV and are doing mediation. They told me, we need to escort you completely out of his sight when this is over. That’s not something they pulled out of their asses. And my ex was PISSED during that meeting. Even though the default was half and half.
—————-
Also, to the nutjob that brought up Thomas Ball. You’re a nut, and we are only lucky that he wasn’t the kind of fruitbat to take others out with him before he removed his narcissist ass from this blue marble of ours.
“For the record, I don’t believe non-paying parents should be sent to prison, because they can’t pay from prison either and frankly I think there are already too many people in prison who shouldn’t be there. I’m also a feminist, much as you’d like to think that isn’t possible. So, what’s your solution?”
That is the solution. Feminists saying “enough is enough” so that other feminists will pull the plug on this madness.
“1. Who keeps the children when the parents split up? Is there a competence test, where the kids go to whoever is determined to be a better parent, or does the father get custody in all cases?”
Shared parenting should be the default judgment. This has been proposed numerous times by MRAs, and shot down by feminists. Study this link to see for yourself the feminist campaign to kick fathers out of their children’s lives, so that children continue to be the sole property of women:
http://www.glennsacks.com/nysp/
Joint custody is extremely workable. For example, each parent may have one week “parent” duty and one week “free”. It is great so that parents can have a life, date, mountain climb, travel, or put in 60 hour weeks on their “off” week, and then focus on children on the “parent” week. Everyone wins, a wonderful solution. Feminists have squashed it, every time it comes up, with a vicious campaign.
“2. If the latter, why should the father always get custody? I mean, you say feminists hate fathers more or less automatically, but I want to hear your case for why we should like them.”
Joint custody is fair to both parents, metter for both parents to have a life, and better for the children to have both parents in their lives. There are no child support issues, since both parents provide a home forthe children equally.
“3. How would you ensure that children whose parents split up are fed and supported? What if the parent they live with makes less money than the non-custodial parent?”
Normally, there is no need for child support in a shared parenting scenario. However, if one parent makes much moremoney than the other, that can probably happen. MRA’s dont care too much about child support, except when it is so crippling that the non custodial parent simply cannot live. MRAs are more concerned with the feminist attempts to push fathers completely out of the children’s lives.
Theresa just pointed out to you that shared responsibility is the default assumption in Cali. It is the same in Australia, and has been for 5 years.
Also, there are all kinds of problems with it, starting with kids having to cart everything they might possibly need that week from one house to the other.
I’ve been getting caught up. Goddess bless you all and keep mocking! I learn so much lurking and reading. And pitying these poor deluded MRAs. I do hope their harsh little worlds one day expand. Keep up the good work.
Is it? From what I’ve heard, it’s extremely problematic when there’s a history of abuse in the family. It’s just another way for abusers to continue abuse and try to control and manipulate their exes.
I’m curious about MRAL’s sockpuppeted self-defence. Would you mind posting it, David?
Oy. How tedious. We get a promising post about a Nice Guy(tm) showing his true sociopathic colors, and we get some new MRA howling about a standard-issue MRA complaint, acting like every line is a “gotcha” because we haven’t heard it all before.
And it’s not even the right standard-issue MRA complaint! At least if he was shouting something about false rape accusations, it would be kinda on topic!
Where I live, shared custody is the default judgement – yet it isn’t always workable as others have pointed out. And you still haven’t provided an alternative to prison for those circumstances where the non-custodial parent shirks their financial responsibility. How would you ensure all children are supported? Or are you really just doing what MRAs are notorious for and using child support as a fake illustration for the so-called evils of feminism?
Silly Bee, abuse never happens unless it’s by women against men; then, of course it happens all the time.
Mandatory joint custody leads directly to the land of milk and honey bees, where abuse, unequal income, geographic distance, and any other barriers vanish in the twinkle of an eye. It’s a happy and magical place, where no one has to worry about ugly realities.
Has anyone here been raised in AZ’s joint custody situation? What was it like? Would you do it for your kids if you divorced?
My husband was reading over my shoulder at the point in this thread where Anthony thought the comments to MRAL were aimed at him, and he said, “Hey, what does ‘MRAL’ stand for?”
I said, “‘Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant,'” and he started laughing uncontrollably. I said, “Look, they don’t really have ranks, it’s just a title this one guy gave himself,” but he would not stop laughing.
His next question: “Does that mean the highest rank in the men’s rights movement is MRAG? Because that sounds feminist to me.”
I’m beginning to think he doesn’t take these debates very seriously.
Spear, MRAL’s self-defense was pretty mild, and sounded exactly like him. I’m not even sure he was trying to fool anyone:
Nice bit of misogynist-mocking here:
http://ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com/2011/08/16/universal-serial-bell-end/
This bloke has added ‘men are a usb’ to the usual alpha beta stuff.
Ha. He might as well have thrown in a line like, “And I hear that MRAL is big, strong, handsome and good in bed as well, so you feminazis shouldn’t make fun of him!”
I have been very lucky in my life in that my parents had a good relationship and I never had to deal with custody battles or child support or any of that stuff. But I’ve known a lot of people who have. A lot of the folks I went to school with are divorced now, and then I had a few friends who grew up with step-parents and single parents. On top of that, there’s been a perpetually messy situation in the family of someone I’ve known forever.
The only thing all those situations have in common is divorce. I can’t think of any two where the situation was even similar. In some the moms have custody, in some the dads. I can only think of one really messy custody battle in all of them. When MRAs come in here and try to paint divorce as some feminist plot to steal a MAN’S children and a MAN’s money from HIM, I mean … I guess? Maybe … 5% of the time? And then there are times when men make shit up and use the kids as pawns to hurt their exes. Again, not the majority of cases.
When I read MRAs complaining about divorce, it just reeks of entitlement. She shouldn’t be able to divorce her husband! She shouldn’t be entitled to any money! She shouldn’t get custody! It’s as if everything that comes of the marriage, including the woman herself, becomes the property of the man. It’s not surprising that they also bemoan the fact that women can get good-paying jobs and college educations now. *siiigh*
Bernard Chapin, the unpleasant maker of many idiotic videos, once stated that “almost all MRAs make between $20k and $75k a year”. For once I’m prepared to believe him. Now, given that they are on such low wages, why do they care so much about “women” divorcing them and taking all of their (non-existant) money? In some cases, the husband has to pay child support, in others the wife. The laws are *not* gender specific. They get worked up about stereotypes – the other guy lost it all in the divorce court. The other guy got taken to the cleaners. The other guy lives in fear of his wife. It’s laughable.
Their hero worship of Thomas Ball is particularly bizarre. A man “died for your children” by burning himself to death, having been denied access to his children. Actually, he was a pseudo domestic terrorist, who assaulted and injured a 3 year old girl and then refused to engage with the court to confirm he was no longer a threat to anyone.
And they call this man a hero..
An hero, more like.
Having more reasonable positions that ACTUALLY HELP WOMEN, instead of naked hatred of men and boys, would make feminism an immensely more powerful movement.
What specific positions do you think feminism has that they should not have?
And what specific positions do you think they should have that actually help women? 🙂
Aren’t you feminists the ones who always allege some sort of male conspiracy to rape women and call it “The Patriarchy” or “Rape Culture”?
Well now you got your wish. How do you like them apples?