The contest for the Most Ironic Use of the Term “Nice Guy,” When Applied to Yourself –otherwise known as the MIUTNGWAY Award – is heating up. The previous front runner – the Tumblr guy who compared his inability to get laid to the Holocaust – now faces a serious challenge from a Redditor calling himself DogmaDog.
The other day Mr. Dog wandered into a discussion of the SlutWalks in the Feminisms and offered his two cents: he declared them “stupid,” and suggested that they won’t really help victims.
And then he started in on his own tale of woe.
I know I’m going to be shit on for saying what I’m about to say, but please hear me out.
Not a promising start, Dog.
I’ve never raped a woman, and I’m the ‘nice guy’ who never took advantage of a woman.
Do you want an award for this?
But a girl I was infatuated with in high school blew me off and treated me disrespectfully. She ended up being raped one night, while intoxicated. I do not know how I am supposed to feel about it.
As Don Draper would say, “what?”
How do you think you’re “supposed” to feel? Did you accidentally dislodge the part of your brain responsible for basic human empathy?
Apparently, the answer to that is “yes.”
[H]ow do you suppose I am supposed to feel about this woman I knew who got raped? I mean, I’ve never taken advantage of a woman, but I don’t understand how my ‘friend’, this girl I went to high school with, could go out and party all the time, and in turn treat me, her classmate, as though I were an inferior person for not enjoying the atmosphere of drunkenness at high school parties.
As it turns out, you’re an inferior person for an entirely different reason.
That girl was a mean girl, no? And by being disrespectful toward men, and prejudiced toward men, wasn’t she asking men to behave badly toward her? The only men she gave attention and physical affection to were the ones who hurt her back.
So let me see if I get this: she didn’t go out with you, a “nice guy,” so she was therefore “asking” to be raped?
Naturally, this being the Feminisms subreddit, and not The Spearhead, some of the regular commenters took exception to Mr. Dog’s victim-blaming and his complete lack of empathy for the victim – especially strange, since Dog, who says he is suffering from an (unspecified) mental illness, considers himself “a victim, in my own way,” of prejudice towards those with mental health issues. This experience, alas, has not given him any sympathy towards other vicitms.
Indeed, it seems that DogmaDog didn’t misplace his sense of empathy after all; rather, he threw it out of the house and got a restraining order against it. Responding to someone who suggested he show a little empathy, Dog lashed out:
Your empathy can go suck a dick. Empathy does nothing to help my situation. I suppose that is just the excuse people give themselves so that they can feel like they are actually doing something.
You basically called me an inferior human being because I can’t or won’t empathize for my friend who was raped. Well, ask yourself this, smart-ass, have you ever really wondered what good your empathy does? It does nothing. …
In reality, you are doing nothing but attacking me, and I may or may not have a ‘complex’, even though I don’t know what that is, but I can guarantee you, I HAVE NEVER RAPED ANYONE!!!
The sound you hear is me banging my head, ever so softly, on my desk. Empathy is what connects human beings to one another, what allows them to understand one another on a deep level.
When people are suffering – as you are, Dog, in dealing with your mental illness – a little bit of empathy from someone else can make all the difference in the world.
If you can’t feel even a little bit of sympathy for this woman you were once “infatuated” with, you’re not a nice guy at all; you’re an even bigger asshole than those drunken high school partiers you disdain. You may never have raped anyone — as you’ve repeatedly insisted, as if this should win you a prize – but “in your own way” you’re thinking like an abuser. Your lack of empathy for the victim, your continued bitterness towards her for turning you down, your sense of wounded narcissism; none of this is healthy, for you or for anyone who comes into contact with you.
You need help, dude. Please, please get it.
Zarat wrote:
Which ones? Cite your sources. You have earned no credibility by blatantly misrepresenting easily discoverable facts.
That is exactly what I looked up. There’s nothing in there about locking up unemployed fathers. You represented the purpose of exactly this legislation as imprisoning unemployed fathers and sentencing them to decades in jail. Do you acknowledge that you were incorrect to say this, or are you going to provide evidence a) that the primary reason for a father not to pay child support is unemployment (which is an implied premise in your complaints about this legislation) and b) that contrary to this law, fathers who do not have the means are being imprisoned?
You have provided no evidence of such a war of annihilation.
I’d like to see some evidence that people who are imprisoned for failure to pay child support are sent to the prisons where–according to you–they are subjected to gang rape and constant violence. I don’t think prison rape should be minimized or joked about, but before you get me to agree that this is an inevitable product of imprisonment you will have to show me some evidence.
“I guess it’s better for children to starve on the streets than to make men act like adults and take responsibility for their children.”
The standard feminist mantra of “step up, shape up, man up” simply does not work when a man loses his job.
So, Anthony … do you support Just Detention too, like I do? Are you an advocate for people who are raped in prisons, like I am? Have you emailed Eric Holder asking for stricter national standards against prison rape, like I have?
Or is your activism confined to feeling really bad for men whose children suffer because Dad can’t financially support them?
So it’s feminisms fault that the current prison system is aimed at containment and punishment? Feminists were complaining that politicians are “soft on crime”? Feminists were pushing for Three Strikes laws?
Maybe we can get back to the topic at hand and blame the victim, if the dead beat dads don’t want to go to jail where all those “violent inmates” (I take that to mean “brown inmates”) perhaps they should act like adults and pay their child support.
Speaking of campaigns people support, why are you supporting children starving in the streets?
[quote]
You may never have raped anyone — as you’ve repeatedly insisted, as if this should win you a prize – but “in your own way” you’re thinking like an abuser.[/quote]
Thoughtcrime!
Awww…Mr. Zarat refuses to bother refuting what I said. *goes back to her delicious sammich*
“I’d like to see some evidence that people who are imprisoned for failure to pay child support are sent to the prisons where–according to you–they are subjected to gang rape and constant violence. I don’t think prison rape should be minimized or joked about, but before you get me to agree that this is an inevitable product of imprisonment you will have to show me some evidence.”
Are you kidding me? They are sent to prison, and even the man-hating Futrelle has written a number of articles about what happens to men in prison.
As to “evidence”, women control 700 women’s studies departments which regularly produce a ream of “evidence” supporting the feminist war on men and boys.
I would LOVE to have 700 male studies departments to show evidence of details like the specific victimization of inmates incarcerated for child support non-payment, compared to the the general population, BUT THERE ARE NO MALE STUDIES DEPARTMENTS TO DO THIS WORK. The feminist strangle hold on the academic perspective of gender is the reason that every feminist always asks for “references”.
The impossibility of obtaining any such “study” from a male perspective is precisely why I asked for you OPINION. What do you THINK happens to male inmates? There is no factual answer, because there are no male studies departments to find the answer. You know that, because you (and feminists like you) keep it that way.
I only want an opinion. DO YOU HAVE THE AFFRONTERY TO TELL ME THAT YOU THINK THAT MEN INCARCERATED FOR CHILD SUPPORT NON PAYMENT ARE SPARED THE HORRORS OF VIOLENCE AND RAPE? Just want to see if you have the courage to say such a thing.
Lol, banned. So predictable.
I won’t bother replying to Anthony’s earlier post to me because it’s already been handled with aplomb, but I do want to address two things he said…
More men suffer cervical and fallopian tube cancer? More men die during childbirth? I could make a list, but a couple of examples should suffice to point out how little homework this putz does. It’s already been pointed out how much of medicine and medical studies had been skewed towards men, but there’s another thing to point out – feminists have worked hard to make advances for women (and men).
I take seriously men’s rights advocates who work hard to make advances for men (and women) without spending all their time demonizing women. I don’t know about south of the border, but up here once a year Safeway fundraises for breast cancer and once a year they fundraise for prostate cancer. The men (and women) who have worked tirelessly for prostate cancer as a cause? My hat is off to them and I donate. They don’t sit at their computers whining about all the attention given to breast cancer, they got out and made a difference.
What’s funny is that the worst reaction he’s received so far has been getting called a “putz” (which I am guilty of). Yet he has ignored people, misrepresented legislation, thrown out strawfeminists galore, used the term “femi-facists”, accused us of supporting rape and violence, and so much more. Yet it’s us that are stewing in hate?
That’s irony. That’s hypocrisy. That’s cognitive dissonance. But worst of all? That’s just sad.
And MRAL? Stop overreacting for crying out loud. Forget about being a “Facial Alpha” or a “Body Alpha”, stop being a friggin’ Personality Omega.
It must be past MRAL’s bedtime.
Shhhhhhhh… he’s having his afternoon nap.
Serious suggestion for MRAL – if you are going to type the word “fuck”, stop. Walk away from the keyboard for 5 minutes. When you come back, ask yourself if what you’re responding to deserves that kind of reaction, or if you should instead respond calmly and, if appropriate, with citations.
Zarat, everyone here keeps showing you facts and you continue to ignore them. Why do you refuse to learn about child support modification for fathers that lose their jobs or have changes in their wages? You can print out the forms online. You don’t need a lawyer to do this. You can read about the 1998 California Supreme Court case Moss vs. the Superior Court to see how one man had the state laws changed to help unemployed fathers.
If a man has a job, his wages can be garnished by the state, so he doesn’t have to lift a finger to make sure his payments are made on time. If he works under the table, then he has the responsibility of paying whatever amount the court decides. If he ignores the court order, he is in contempt of court and could face fines and jail time. My concern is the states aren’t enforcing child support orders well enough, and it’s causing children to suffer from poverty. I’m not sad for dads who get in trouble for not making child support payments, because they are afraid they can’t have a fancy car or XBox if they pay for their own children’s basic needs.
Can a custodial parent decide, “I don’t want to buy food for my child, because I want more money for myself”? No, if he or she did, it would be child neglect. Why should that be any different for the non custodial parent?
Oh, lord, are we letting a perfectly entertaining thread about misogynists’ dating woes turn into yet another long whine about how unfair it is that men aren’t allowed to let their children starve? This stuff makes me feel bad to be human.
I already wrote way too long a post about this in a previous thread, but my grandpa had to drop out of school at sixteen and become the “man of the house” because his father abandoned the family. My great-grandmother had to do the same thing, for the same reason, except that it was even harder for her to be the “man” since there weren’t any blue-collar jobs for women that paid a living wage. Short answer to Anthony’s “Why are there all these laws requiring parents to support their children?” …because we tried it the other way, and it sucked.
Okay, discussion over. Back to picking on guys who think they’re really nice because they just cheer for rapists, rather than raping women themselves.
I like how Zarat thinks the majority of all inmates are in there for violent crimes, apparently.
“where–according to you–they are subjected to gang rape and constant violence. I don’t think prison rape should be minimized or joked about, but before you get me to agree that this is an inevitable product of imprisonment you will have to show me some evidence.”
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=1FTAyY7O0XEC&oi=fnd&pg=PR3&dq=Percentage+of+men+raped+in+prison&ots=5hKJjp0Wa9&sig=I8n-0CQeXdp4HvDHN_RKmc73jh4#v=onepage&q=Percentage%20of%20men%20raped%20in%20prison&f=false
It’s closer to 7%, although about a third are the subjects of sexual coercion and other sex related problems; but not rape.
“I take seriously men’s rights advocates who work hard to make advances for men (and women) without spending all their time demonizing women. I don’t know about south of the border, but up here once a year Safeway fundraises for breast cancer and once a year they fundraise for prostate cancer. The men (and women) who have worked tirelessly for prostate cancer as a cause? My hat is off to them and I donate. They don’t sit at their computers whining about all the attention given to breast cancer, they got out and made a difference.”
Seriously.
Not to mention that the people who are engaging in that type of work don’t berate the other sex and rant about the attention the other causes get. They just do the work and make people aware of those things, and they’re hella passionate about it all, too.
My husband doesn’t believe me when I tell him MRAL sometimes gets so worked up he starts typing wrong. Like, he types all the sputtering and cussing he’d do if he were speaking the words. I mean, how is that even a thing?
I actually wonder at MRAL’s keyboard budget….how many new keyboards does he need a year?
Anthony Zarat: How does it benefit society to put anyone in prison? One might say that fathers who have nothing to fear except their ex complaining about them not making support payments don’t have any incentive to actually pay. That would make the deterrent effect a net gain; should enough of those parents (note, the laws are gender neutral), decide to pay, rather than spend their days in prison.
What we “throw” taxpayer money on is people with dependent children (AFDC = Aid to Families with Dependent Children, commonly called “welfare”).
The second issue you tried to blame feminists for (prison abuse) isn’t sometihng to blame them for. It’s an issue lots of people who are feminists happen to be actively trying to fix (see, for example, the FCLA, for people working to improve the conditions in American prisons).
What, one wonders, apart from whining on Man Boobz, have you been doing to change those conditions in prison?
No. The NOW campaign has resulted in cases (Idaho) of decades long imprisonment for late child support.
Wow…. it is MAGIC. A change they want made to the laws has already caused multiple (cases) incidents of decades of time spent in prison.
That’s impressive.
Or not. Because what you did was move goalposts. You referred to one proposed law (Rhode Island) and then made an unsubstantiated claim that multiple men in another state (Idaho) have been incarcerated because of NOW.
Which means you are dishonest. If you can show 1: That men have already spent decades in prison for failure to pay child support, and 2: That this was something NOW actively campaigned for, you might have the basis for an argument.
Not the argument you are making (i.e. there should be no punsishment for parents who skip on their obligations to the children), but one for a better system of incentive to force parents to support their children.
But that’s not what you want to do. You want to have a temper tantrum about how the evil feminists are oppressing men by actually expecting them to live up to the requirements of a court order, and pretending this is part of a plan by feminists to “get back” at men because they hate them.
As to your claim about leaving if someone here says they know what goes on in prison… I do. It sucks. It’s one of the greatest shames in the present American society. I don’t support it. I don’t support it for anything.
And I think there are better ways to handle prison. I wish I could think of a better way to handle deadbeat parents, but without something more than the threat of garnishing wages for any over the table job they get, there isn’t.
And the children need to eat. You do remember the children… the actual people this money is being moved form one person to another to support.
No, of course you don’t. It’s all about how evil you think women are.
Zarat, you keep insisting we answer your question about prison rape. We addressed it. Now you can answer my question. A custodial parent can’t decide to stop providing clothes, food, and shelter for his or her children. Why should it be any different for the other parent?
The OP person makes me feel rly ill D:
Oh look what a surprise, MARL has tons of sympathy for the dude with no empathy, and then has a meltdown randomly at Rutee.
MRAs, they sulk like children when they don’t get what they want.
That’s all they really are, isn’t it? Sulky little children. They want everything to be their way, they throw a fit if it isn’t, they can only see issues in black and white, they won’t empathize with others yet expect the whole world to empathize with them…
Anthony Zarat was banned three hours ago. Why are you still asking Anthony questions?