The contest for the Most Ironic Use of the Term “Nice Guy,” When Applied to Yourself –otherwise known as the MIUTNGWAY Award – is heating up. The previous front runner – the Tumblr guy who compared his inability to get laid to the Holocaust – now faces a serious challenge from a Redditor calling himself DogmaDog.
The other day Mr. Dog wandered into a discussion of the SlutWalks in the Feminisms and offered his two cents: he declared them “stupid,” and suggested that they won’t really help victims.
And then he started in on his own tale of woe.
I know I’m going to be shit on for saying what I’m about to say, but please hear me out.
Not a promising start, Dog.
I’ve never raped a woman, and I’m the ‘nice guy’ who never took advantage of a woman.
Do you want an award for this?
But a girl I was infatuated with in high school blew me off and treated me disrespectfully. She ended up being raped one night, while intoxicated. I do not know how I am supposed to feel about it.
As Don Draper would say, “what?”
How do you think you’re “supposed” to feel? Did you accidentally dislodge the part of your brain responsible for basic human empathy?
Apparently, the answer to that is “yes.”
[H]ow do you suppose I am supposed to feel about this woman I knew who got raped? I mean, I’ve never taken advantage of a woman, but I don’t understand how my ‘friend’, this girl I went to high school with, could go out and party all the time, and in turn treat me, her classmate, as though I were an inferior person for not enjoying the atmosphere of drunkenness at high school parties.
As it turns out, you’re an inferior person for an entirely different reason.
That girl was a mean girl, no? And by being disrespectful toward men, and prejudiced toward men, wasn’t she asking men to behave badly toward her? The only men she gave attention and physical affection to were the ones who hurt her back.
So let me see if I get this: she didn’t go out with you, a “nice guy,” so she was therefore “asking” to be raped?
Naturally, this being the Feminisms subreddit, and not The Spearhead, some of the regular commenters took exception to Mr. Dog’s victim-blaming and his complete lack of empathy for the victim – especially strange, since Dog, who says he is suffering from an (unspecified) mental illness, considers himself “a victim, in my own way,” of prejudice towards those with mental health issues. This experience, alas, has not given him any sympathy towards other vicitms.
Indeed, it seems that DogmaDog didn’t misplace his sense of empathy after all; rather, he threw it out of the house and got a restraining order against it. Responding to someone who suggested he show a little empathy, Dog lashed out:
Your empathy can go suck a dick. Empathy does nothing to help my situation. I suppose that is just the excuse people give themselves so that they can feel like they are actually doing something.
You basically called me an inferior human being because I can’t or won’t empathize for my friend who was raped. Well, ask yourself this, smart-ass, have you ever really wondered what good your empathy does? It does nothing. …
In reality, you are doing nothing but attacking me, and I may or may not have a ‘complex’, even though I don’t know what that is, but I can guarantee you, I HAVE NEVER RAPED ANYONE!!!
The sound you hear is me banging my head, ever so softly, on my desk. Empathy is what connects human beings to one another, what allows them to understand one another on a deep level.
When people are suffering – as you are, Dog, in dealing with your mental illness – a little bit of empathy from someone else can make all the difference in the world.
If you can’t feel even a little bit of sympathy for this woman you were once “infatuated” with, you’re not a nice guy at all; you’re an even bigger asshole than those drunken high school partiers you disdain. You may never have raped anyone — as you’ve repeatedly insisted, as if this should win you a prize – but “in your own way” you’re thinking like an abuser. Your lack of empathy for the victim, your continued bitterness towards her for turning you down, your sense of wounded narcissism; none of this is healthy, for you or for anyone who comes into contact with you.
You need help, dude. Please, please get it.
excusewes ex cuses for bullshiut IT’SALLWAYSworse for women. FUCK THOSEBITCHES
‘You want me to research the LAW? As a feminist, you more than most must know that laws mean nothing when the institutions behind them are discriminatory.’ A. Zarat
Translation: You want me to actually back my shit up with facts? Why would I do that when it’s easier to pull inflammatory ‘facts’ out of my ass?
Child support modification? What planet do you live on? You think an American judge will grant a father a modification after the father loses his job? In the age of Misandry and feminist hate?
Child Support Modification:
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/family/support/supforms.htm
http://www.alacourt.gov/pdfppt/rule32.pdf
Two states, completely random and opposite view points on women-both have child support modification rules/paperwork for men to choose to use.
Planet I live on:
I live on Earth. The one with the United States of America, whose Supreme Court just recently ruled on the issue of support modification. Here is the decision
American judge will grant a modification:
here is an actual case of a judge agreeing with the father and quashing a required amount of support.
In fact, here is an order giving custody of the child to the father with a finding the mother LIED to the court.
I apologize insincerely for trashing your worldview.
So… Anthony. You pretty much ignore what people say, move the goalposts and rant. Is that about it?
Anyway, back to DogmaDog… I got the impression that he vaguely believes that he’s supposed to have empathy, but doesn’t really understand the how’s and why’s. The bit about “how do you suppose I am supposed to feel” was quite telling, I thought. I.e., he knew intellectually what kind of response was expected of him, but hadn’t really internalized the reasons why people feel that way.
‘Let’s look at this logically, a novel idea for feminists.’
‘excusewes ex cuses for bullshiut IT’SALLWAYSworse for women. FUCK THOSEBITCHES’ Mral
So much rage…so little logic. When your mindset and emotional level prevent you from not mashing the keyboard with your fists in response to someone, you should probably take a step back and reconsider your tactic. Probably your beliefs too.
“Facts really make you upset, don’t they?”
Well, what you did was make an assertion. You might be correct, but we have no reason to think that just because you said it. If you really want to back up your opinion, you source it. Now, I recognize I didn’t, but I’m not screaming about your not taking me at face value, now am I?
“The 14th amendment states that “no state shall … deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws”. ”
Whoa, holy Quote Mine, Batman. She said you said it, not that it’s true, you stupid jackass. Quite the opposite, she said that your statement was wrong.
“This has not prevented feminists from passing thousands of laws that openly discriminate against men.”
That seems almost absurdly high. Why not support this statement with you know, something to substantiate your claim?
“You want me to research the LAW? As a feminist, you more than most must know that laws mean nothing when the institutions behind them are discriminatory.”
Um, you’re stating that the vehicle by which the institution discriminates is not merely passive acceptance of the status quo, but by actively enshrining that discrimination in the law. That would in fact mean, if true, that the laws would be there to be researched and reported back. If you haven’t already done the research, what makes you think your previous claims are true?
“Ultimately, the MRM is more than anything about a father’s rights to be a part of his children’s lives.”
Well that’s a blatant lie. We’ve seen far more from them about returning to more strongly enforced traditional gender roles and the putting of women back in their place than we ever have about fathers.
“The only thing that feminists hate more than fathers is to be forced to admit that they hate fathers. ”
Um, no, I couldn’t care less about fathers or mothers abstractly. I certainly don’t hate or love either.
“Because the hatred of men and fathers is at the heart of the feminist movement.”
You think we campaign for equal rights and equal pay because we hate men? You’re an arrogant, self-important little jackass, aren’t you?
“FUCK YOU RUTEE! FUCK YOU”
Well that was a well-reasoned and supported argument. Still angry about being an irritating twerp with nothing of value to add to a discussion, MRAL? Because this isn’t how you fix that.
You know, I keep seeing those claims about family court bias, I think I should at least add custody statistics to my kyriarchy library.
You want me to research the LAW? As a feminist, you more than most must know that laws mean nothing when the institutions behind them are discriminatory.
So essentially you mean “I have to work?! I better claim that even if the law contradicts me (which for the record it does) it does not matter cuz of MAGIC.”
Instead of ranting and raving here about it-go off to the blog that Ozymandia’s created and work to get those issues you have difficulty with resolved.
@mediumdave
“here is the Evil Queen of the Entire Universe on the same topic…” — mediumdave
“throwing men in jail for not paying child support is just stupid…” — Amanda Marcotte
The reason she is the Evil Queen is precisely because she says one thing, and then does another. She is a staunch supporter of the National Organization for Women … which is conducting the hate war against men and boys, including the campaign to throw fathers in prison when they lose their jobs.
Also note that Marcotte never says that throwing fathers in prison is WRONG … she says it is stupid. Stupid because mothers never see another dime after the man goes to prison. Stupid because, even when he gets out, he is permanently unemployable because of a felony conviction.
Not wrong because a harmless father who is out of luck gets thrown to the dogs and gang-raped by violent criminals for decades. Not wrong because tax payers have to foot a multi million dollar bill that “buys” nothing but gratuitous torture of another human being.
Marcotte stays it is stupid because women benefit more from a man in a prison of indenture than they do from a man in a prison of steel.
Are none of you afraid there may one day be a wages of hate to be paid for your evil?
Whoa, MRAL, what’s with the screaming profanities? No, isn’t always worse for women. However, it is worse to be the victim of a violent crime than to be turned down by someone you find attractive. Does it sting to get turned down? Absolutely. But that experience does not compare with being the victim of a violent crime. I personally have been turned down numerous times. It stings, but it doesn’t prevent me from having empathy for a person who turned me down when I hear they have experienced something horrible in their life.
*hands MRAL an ice cream cone*
You might want to take a break munchkin.
Also, I would love to see the source for this “decades in prison” meme you are pushing Mr. Zarat. Even the SCOTUS case had the guy in jail for a year. It was problematic that he was there but it was not “decades.”
Anthony Zarat wrote:
The legislation in question changes the felony arrears level from 10,000$ to 5,000$ dollars. Let me quote from the legislation in question, s0023:
http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/billtext11/senatetext11/s0023.pdf
To sum up, the legislation itself states that those who are able to do so must pay the child support (ruling out unemployed persons, or at least ruling out unemployed persons without means) and sets the maximum prison sentence at five years. You, on the other hand, represented the legislation as designed to punish unemployed fathers and as putting said men in prison for decades. Why should anyone take anything you say seriously?
“You’re an arrogant, self-important little jackass, aren’t you?”
Why are feminists so angry when men’s rights activists ask for EQUAL treatment under the law?
Men’s Rights: Equal treatment under the law and equal protection of government.
Feminism: Hate
He’s just trying his hand at a bit of peacockery…. seems he has to kick it up a notch whenever another MRA blowhard joins the thread.
Are none of you afraid there may one day be a wages of hate to be paid for your evil?
Oh yeah, I’m shaking with terror.
Oh wait, that’s laughter.
“So essentially you mean “I have to work?! I better claim that even if the law contradicts me (which for the record it does) it does not matter cuz of MAGIC.”
Whoa, whoa, he could have had a point here in theory if he wasn’t claiming that the laws were themselves written to discriminate. Legally we have equality for all genders and races encoded in the law, but in practice, we have institutional biases. The thing is, institutional bias isn’t actually a get out of jail free card when you specifically say that the laws themselves are unequal.
This isn’t generally a problem for feminists, because the inequality of abortion laws is self-evident to thinking people. But he specifically claimed the laws themselves, and not merely the legal system, were biased against men; that needs to be sourced.
“Why are feminists so angry when men’s rights activists ask for EQUAL treatment under the law?”
ARe you illiterate? I said that because you claimed that the feminist movement’s core was anger at men, not, you know, fixing inequalities that plague women.
“Men’s Rights: Equal treatment under the law and equal protection of government.
Feminism: Hate”
Oh, you’re from Bizarro World, I see.
@Moewicus
“You, on the other hand, represented the legislation as designed to punish unemployed fathers and as putting said men in prison for decades.”
No. The NOW campaign has resulted in cases (Idaho) of decades long imprisonment for late child support.
I used Rhode Island as the CURRENT example, because this is the state that the National Organization for Women is currently focussing on. The feminist war on men and boys has been ongoing for many years, I cannot possibly highlight every case of feminist hate here. There is not enough space in a library for such a catalogue of horrors.
Here are the details of the Rhode Island feminist hate campaign:
1) Before the NOW campaign, Rhode Island imposed a ” … six months in prison for a misdemeanor …” See source below.
http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=16445
2) Now, Rhode Island is a felony state, with a maximum of 5 years for late child support (as you discovered). This is not enough hate for the NOW, which is attempting to have the arrears limit decreased from 10,000 to 5,000:
http://rinow.org/legislative-agenda/2011-legislative-agenda-draft-as-of-21411/
If you want to continue to live in a bubble and ignore the FACTUAL EVIDENCE that feminists are engaged in a gendercidal war of annihilation, that is your business. But, the information WILL be made available to you, and you WILL be made to know the magnitude of the horrors that you are supporting.
Question to all you man haters: WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS TO A FATHER WHO IS THROWN IN PRISON FOR CHILD SUPPORT NON PAYMENT? Any idea what the violent predators inmates will do with this poor person? Do you think for a SECOND that the NOW does not know this? Is this the kind of campaign that you want to support?
Are you proud of what you are doing here? Are you proud of the horror, the pain, the agony, the cruelty that you are inflicting on fathers who lose their jobs?
What kind of person do you want to be?
Zarat said, “Are none of you afraid there may one day be wages of hate to be paid for your evil?”
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say, but it sounds like it should be a line in Star Wars. I could imagine Obi Wan Kenobi saying that to Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine.
I did not “wander into the lair of the Devil” by accident. I came here knowing what to expect.
Here is my promise: I will leave you alone to stew in your hate if ONE of you will answer this question, that I asked before:
WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS TO A FATHER WHO IS THROWN IN PRISON FOR CHILD SUPPORT NON PAYMENT? What will violent inmates will do with this poor person? Do you think for a SECOND that the NOW does not know this? Is this the kind of campaign that you want to support?
You are supporting rape, violence, and horror on an industrial scale. But I wonder if even one of you can bring yourself to answer? What will happen to a father in prison? What will they do to him? What will his existence be like? How many cigarettes will “spending time with him” cost?
Are you proud of who you are? Of what you are supporting? Of making fun of the tiny number of men and women MRAs who are trying to stop this madness?
I think I’m going to start saying that to anyone who gets on my nerves today.
Sorry, Speedlines, I was writing my own retort to his rant before yours was posted.
OK, Anthony, I understand that for someone like yourself, disagreement = “OMG I hate you”. This is a common feature of narcissistic thinking. You probably cannot help thinking that way, as you’ve never known any other way. For that, you have my sympathy.
But there is simply no basis for the alarmist nonsense that you’re selling here, and I think you’re getting as angry as you are because you believe “in your heart” that you are right, even though the facts don’t agree.
Now about the “wages”, yes, I am concerned that tomorrow or next week another disgruntled or “distraught” man will go on a rampage with an assault rifle. Those kinds of occurrences are distressingly common here in the land of the free (fire zone). But I’m not terribly afraid for myself; the chance of me, personally being targeted during one of these rampages is pretty small.
Strang how you missed the other Agendas they’re pushing liek:
This act would make numerous amendments to the Rhode Island works program such as expanding the acceptable workforce activities and eliminate the periodic twenty-four (24) month time limit, while maintaining the lifetime limit of family eligibility for cash assistance at forty-eight (48) months.
Ah, that doesn’t feed into your victimization.
I’m not suggesting they’re losing their jobs on purpose, I’m just pointing to citations where they are.
http://singleparents.about.com/od/legalissues/f/impoverishment.htm
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_292557.html
http://corpainvestigation.wordpress.com/2006/08/11/why-your-child-support-will-never-be-paid-the-worthless-paper-by-kevin-bousquet/
Yes, yes I do know what it’s like to be homeless.
Yep, I can tell that by the BILLIONS of child support dollars that are withheld by fathers from their children.
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/michigan_ag_100m_in_child_supp.html
http://www.suntimes.com/news/4205457-418/3-billion-owedin-child-support.html
This has already been debunked. But it doesn’t fit into you temper tantrum so I won’t belabor the point.
Never talked to a mother who’s lost her children because she was abandoned by the father and then had CPS take them because she’s “unfit”?
Wait, weren’t you just arguing that the states shouldn’t persue dead beat dads for child support, now you want me to be angry that the state is “throw[ing] tax payers money at mothers”?
I guess it’s better for children to starve on the streets than to make men act like adults and take responsibility for their children.
“I was writing my own retort to his rant before yours was posted.”
You can stop the “rant” at any time by answering my question, in whatever way suits you:
WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS TO A FATHER WHO IS THROWN IN PRISON FOR CHILD SUPPORT NON PAYMENT? What will violent inmates will do with this poor person? Do you think for a SECOND that the NOW does not know this? Is this the kind of campaign that you want to support?
Just let me know what kind of person supports this hate legislation. Most MRAs are honestly puzzled that feminists would do this. Mothers lose because they never see another dime of child support. Children lose because their fathers are in prison. Fathers lose in ways that most of you seem unable to acknowledge. Tax payers lose millions of dollars.
Only feminists win with this kind of hate law, and I wonder why. How do you think this benefits you?