The contest for the Most Ironic Use of the Term “Nice Guy,” When Applied to Yourself –otherwise known as the MIUTNGWAY Award – is heating up. The previous front runner – the Tumblr guy who compared his inability to get laid to the Holocaust – now faces a serious challenge from a Redditor calling himself DogmaDog.
The other day Mr. Dog wandered into a discussion of the SlutWalks in the Feminisms and offered his two cents: he declared them “stupid,” and suggested that they won’t really help victims.
And then he started in on his own tale of woe.
I know I’m going to be shit on for saying what I’m about to say, but please hear me out.
Not a promising start, Dog.
I’ve never raped a woman, and I’m the ‘nice guy’ who never took advantage of a woman.
Do you want an award for this?
But a girl I was infatuated with in high school blew me off and treated me disrespectfully. She ended up being raped one night, while intoxicated. I do not know how I am supposed to feel about it.
As Don Draper would say, “what?”
How do you think you’re “supposed” to feel? Did you accidentally dislodge the part of your brain responsible for basic human empathy?
Apparently, the answer to that is “yes.”
[H]ow do you suppose I am supposed to feel about this woman I knew who got raped? I mean, I’ve never taken advantage of a woman, but I don’t understand how my ‘friend’, this girl I went to high school with, could go out and party all the time, and in turn treat me, her classmate, as though I were an inferior person for not enjoying the atmosphere of drunkenness at high school parties.
As it turns out, you’re an inferior person for an entirely different reason.
That girl was a mean girl, no? And by being disrespectful toward men, and prejudiced toward men, wasn’t she asking men to behave badly toward her? The only men she gave attention and physical affection to were the ones who hurt her back.
So let me see if I get this: she didn’t go out with you, a “nice guy,” so she was therefore “asking” to be raped?
Naturally, this being the Feminisms subreddit, and not The Spearhead, some of the regular commenters took exception to Mr. Dog’s victim-blaming and his complete lack of empathy for the victim – especially strange, since Dog, who says he is suffering from an (unspecified) mental illness, considers himself “a victim, in my own way,” of prejudice towards those with mental health issues. This experience, alas, has not given him any sympathy towards other vicitms.
Indeed, it seems that DogmaDog didn’t misplace his sense of empathy after all; rather, he threw it out of the house and got a restraining order against it. Responding to someone who suggested he show a little empathy, Dog lashed out:
Your empathy can go suck a dick. Empathy does nothing to help my situation. I suppose that is just the excuse people give themselves so that they can feel like they are actually doing something.
You basically called me an inferior human being because I can’t or won’t empathize for my friend who was raped. Well, ask yourself this, smart-ass, have you ever really wondered what good your empathy does? It does nothing. …
In reality, you are doing nothing but attacking me, and I may or may not have a ‘complex’, even though I don’t know what that is, but I can guarantee you, I HAVE NEVER RAPED ANYONE!!!
The sound you hear is me banging my head, ever so softly, on my desk. Empathy is what connects human beings to one another, what allows them to understand one another on a deep level.
When people are suffering – as you are, Dog, in dealing with your mental illness – a little bit of empathy from someone else can make all the difference in the world.
If you can’t feel even a little bit of sympathy for this woman you were once “infatuated” with, you’re not a nice guy at all; you’re an even bigger asshole than those drunken high school partiers you disdain. You may never have raped anyone — as you’ve repeatedly insisted, as if this should win you a prize – but “in your own way” you’re thinking like an abuser. Your lack of empathy for the victim, your continued bitterness towards her for turning you down, your sense of wounded narcissism; none of this is healthy, for you or for anyone who comes into contact with you.
You need help, dude. Please, please get it.
I don’t know if this is what Mr. Al is referring to, but in the original thread, the guy talks a little about how he’s a victim not because the girl turned him down but because of the way he’s been treated because of his disability. It’s really light on details, and from the way he (over)reacts whenever anyone says boo to him, I’d wager that a lot of his victimhood is based on things that haven’t happened in reality and only exist in his mind.
In any case, that’s what the guy is talking about when he calls himself a victim.
Are you guys smart enough to understand that Redux is a Dating Blogger and NOT a Men’s Rights Activist? If you want to see what Men’s Rights activists are asking for, go to the source. The four largest MRM sites are:
the-spearhead.com
antimisandry.com
avoiceformen.com
falserapesociety.blogspot.com
Nobody on ANY of these sites complains about “felling bad about rejection”. What a joke. Futrelle’s preferred method of distortion is to fabricate a “false” MRA and then demolish him in public. Underhanded, dishonest, but ultimately pointless. Why do you want to waste your time fighting an illusion? Why not find out what the Men’s Rights Movement is first, and then decide how you feel about it?
@MRAL It’s not private. He’s displaying his thoughts publicly.
Anthony, please point out where Futrelle called Redux an MRA.
Is Anthony Zarat smart enough to understand that this site is about making fun of misogyny wherever it is found and not only in MRMland, and that David never represented Dog as an MRA?
Eh, prolly not.
Already did. Felt kinda queasy, thanks.
First of all, look to your right. No, your other right. Every site you listed is both recognized and, at times, cited by the host of the blog and its participants.
Secondly, look up. Way up. right at the the top of the page. What does it say there?
The point is to mock misogyny, where ever it may appear. If it appears on an MRA site, guess what? We mock it. If it appears on a dating blog, guess what? We mock it. If it appears on a blog written by a woman (see: Susan Walsh), guess what? We mock it.
We mock misogyny.
Now, if you feel that the Men’s Rights Movement is incomplete or ineffective without misogyny, that’s a conversation for a different thread. If you feel that many of the issues highlighted by the Men’s Rights Movement are not, inherently, misogynistic, then you may be surprised to find some feminists on this site that agree with you.
If you want to explain why the OP is not misogynistic, then have it. I think MRAL is probably lonely.
I have read those sites. They are worse than this post, actually. I have decided that the MRM is the Stormfront, but with a special focus on women in general, and feminists in particular.
Also, the MRM is a lot less organized than the Stormfront or the KKK.
@cynickal
How does it save tax payer dollars to put fathers in prison for decades? It costs tax payers $120,000 per year to keep a father in prison, after losing his job. It costs the tax payer nothing to leave him free — for example, free to look for a job.
Are you suggesting that fathers are intentionally losing their jobs, so that they can avoid paying child support? Do you have any idea how difficult life is for a homeless man?!?
Do you know that fathers under a child support obligation are LESS likely to be unemployed than the general population? Fathers do everything they can to stay employed. What use is it to put these men in prison for decades when they fail? Is there no bottom to the hate in your heart? Do you have the capacity for compassion?
Child support modification? What planet do you live on? You think an American judge will grant a father a modification after the father loses his job? In the age of Misandry and feminist hate?
As to responsibility, why not put mothers in prison for 14 years when THEY fall on hard economic times? Oh no!!!! We throw tax payer money at mothers “in need” like it grows on trees. Your double standards are as commonplace as they are hateful and bigoted.
Bee, DogmaDog said in another comment that he’s been diagnosed with “undifferentiated schizophrenia”, which is not something that I know much about. Just guessing that it’s one of those “catchall” terms that psychiatrists use when they’re not really sure what the problem is… anyway, it does seem to be widely accepted that “empathy deficits” and schizophrenia tend to go hand-hand-in hand.
The girl liked to party, and the guy didn’t. It sounds like they would have been a mismatch anyway. I don’t judge high school students that party, because I liked rowdy parties back in the day. I usually dated other guys that partied because they were more fun to me, and some of the more straight laced guys didn’t like girls that drank. It’s more fun to be around people if you have more in common.
He says she was interested in bad guys, but what kind of boyfriend would he be? He thinks empathy is pointless. He is apathetic that his friend was victimized. He assumes that the popular party guys are all jerks, but he never looks in the mirror to examine his own self. You might be surprised to find out sometimes the popular quarterback is a genuinely nice person, and the shy guy is a major league asshole. You can’t judge people based on stereotypes from high school movies.
Speaking of putzes…
This is particularly rich coming from the person who is accusing “femi-facists” of trying to get unemployed men thrown into prison.
Cognitive dissonance has found its apex.
Child support adjustment and modification are not only available they’re suggested as the best way to deal with involuntary changes in income due to unemployment and other types of involuntary loss of income.
Now, I have a great deal of compassion for fathers and believe that we should be encouraging more resources and legal aid for fathers who want to work with the system and need guidance and assistance dealing with the paper work and filing.
‘The fact that he privately doesn’t care whether someone was raped doesn’t hurt anyone’
How about the fact that he publicly stated she deserved it? Seems a lot worse than some piddling little perceived rejection from highschool he’s still seething over. He’s not a victim, he’s an asshole.
Nobinayamu, well said. And IIRC, it’s been pointed out repeatedly, here and at other feminist sites, that hounding “deadbeat dads” isn’t the most humane or efficient way to get mothers and children taken care of. The states that are the harshest in this area are the most conservative, least-feminist influenced ones. IMO, they’re motivated not by feminist concerns but by the misguided, outdated belief that men are always and must be the breadwinners.
“Now, I have a great deal of compassion for fathers”
A feminist saying he/she feels compassion for fathers is like a slaughterhouse saying they have compassion for cattle.
1) Why do family courts routinely discriminate against fathers in custody disputes?
2) Why do mothers who (voluntarily) deny visitation receive a verbal reprimand, while fathers who (involuntarily) lose the ability to pay child support end up in prison?
3) Why is there a “Violence against women act” when men are 4 out of every 5 victims of violence in America?
4) Why are there 90 commissions, offices, and departments dedicated to “women’s health” and ZERO for men, when men suffer more, earlier, and more severely from every know disease and debility except breast cancer?
5) Why are there 700 women’s studies departments, paid for by your tax dollars, and only ONE male studies department (which is privately funded)?
These are the issues of the MRM. Nobody gives a shit about dating except the fools on this board, who have nothing better to do.
Equal protection under the law and equal protection of government.
“Child support modification? What planet do you live on? You think an American judge will grant a father a modification after the father loses his job? In the age of Misandry and feminist hate?”
Your ignorance is unsurprising.
“As to responsibility, why not put mothers in prison for 14 years when THEY fall on hard economic times? Oh no!!!! We throw tax payer money at mothers “in need” like it grows on trees. Your double standards are as commonplace as they are hateful and bigoted.”
If the mother is the primary caretaker, she isn’t paying child support; that’s not a double standard, that’s a recognition of facts.
But you know, I really don’t like Child Support as a system. I want to replace it with a small income tax on everyone, and all parents get the money back. It avoids child support fights, and helps all kids (And therefore, all people, after a generation).
@Tabby
I posted a link to the National Organization for Women site where they are actively lobbying to have fathers thrown in prison for being late on child support. Please click the link. Are you are afraid that doing so will cause your ideological feminist edifice to crumble as you read the words of your fellow feminists, calling for prison time for unemployed fathers?
“But you know, I really don’t like Child Support as a system. I want to replace it with a small income tax on everyone, and all parents get the money back. It avoids child support fights, and helps all kids (And therefore, all people, after a generation).”
Wonderful suggestion. It would allow fathers to have the same reproductive rights as mothers. When a mother does not want her life to be impacted by a child, she has that right. MRAs have been asking for the same right for fathers for years.
However, understand something: feminist man haters will fight against this every step of the way. They will march against it. The words of shame and blame will blossom and the fears of female game will flow. Have no doubt, even if every other force in America were to stand behind such a proposal, it has zero chance of passing. The military industrial complex, organized religion, the Tea party and the tiny insignificant squeak of the MRM would be drowned out by the roar of feminist power, if their ultimate privilege were ever challenged.
Hey, I’m a feminist who has a father she loves very much. I also quite a few guy friends who are fathers, I’ve dated men who are fathers, and have been encouraged, taught and nurtured by various father figures (some of whom had children, some of whom did not) for my entire life. Take your trite, cliched, suppositions about how I feel about fathers somewhere else.
As to your off topic questions/assertion, I could go through them one by one. I may very well debunk them later; it depends on my mood. But really, what’s the point? You’ve already asserted, without citation and completely erroneously, that fathers do not have access to child support modification. You’re either ignorant, a liar, or both.
You’re ideas are not new here. There’s nothing you’ve written that hasn’t been discussed and/or debunked, ad nauseum, on this blog. I had a long weekend. It’s going to be an even longer week. If you can’t research simple information like child support modification and/or adjustment, how fruitful a dialogue is even possible?
Typos! “I also have quite a few friends…” and “Your ideas are not new here…”
Also, you do realize that the suggestion you referred to as “wonderful” was made by a feminist, right?
“1) Why do family courts routinely discriminate against fathers in custody disputes?”
Trick Question; family courts side with both parents 50/50 in a *DISPUTED* Custody. Fathers don’t fight for custody nearly as often as mothers.
“2) Why do mothers who (voluntarily) deny visitation receive a verbal reprimand, while fathers who (involuntarily) lose the ability to pay child support end up in prison?”
I’ve seen papers served to my mother, actually. I’m not sure if you can go to prison, but it’s certainly not ‘just a verbal reprimand’. That’s either the basis for a civil suit or an actual crime.
“3) Why is there a “Violence against women act” when men are 4 out of every 5 victims of violence in America?”
That seems questionably high. The DoJ website is down so I can’t check it, but in short, “Because most violence against women is a symptom and a cause of oppression, whereas most male/male violence, while tragic, stems from crimes of passion” would be my guess.
“4) Why are there 90 commissions, offices, and departments dedicated to “women’s health” and ZERO for men, when men suffer more, earlier, and more severely from every know disease and debility except breast cancer?”
Because men are the ones who benefit foremost from general advances to begin with, both due to bias in the medical system and, if true, their higher incidence of ‘every disease and debility’?
“5) Why are there 700 women’s studies departments, paid for by your tax dollars, and only ONE male studies department (which is privately funded)?”
Because most social sciences are already dominated by the male perspective, so a male studies department would be at best redundant.
BTW, Anthony Zarat, in case you don’t believe me, here is the Evil Queen of the Entire Universe on the same topic…
And no, “feminists” would not march against a better, fairer system for supporting children. We’re pragmatic that way.
The girl liked to party, and the guy didn’t. It sounds like they would have been a mismatch anyway.
But she was hot and he hasn’t raped anyone! What more does a relationship need?
Sigh… as soon as I read this post, I was counting down the seconds until MRAL appeared to defend the guy.
@Nobinayamu
Facts really make you upset, don’t they?
” … fathers do not have access to child support modification … ”
The 14th amendment states that “no state shall … deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws”.
This has not prevented feminists from passing thousands of laws that openly discriminate against men.
Years ago, this did not prevent women from being the victims of thousands of laws that openly discriminated against women.
You want me to research the LAW? As a feminist, you more than most must know that laws mean nothing when the institutions behind them are discriminatory.
Men face openly hostile and discriminatory civil courts, as well as a number of openly discriminatory laws, when they do the unthinkable and fight for custody of their children.
Ultimately, the MRM is more than anything about a father’s rights to be a part of his children’s lives. The only thing that feminists hate more than fathers is to be forced to admit that they hate fathers. Because, the hatred of men and fathers is at the heart of the feminist movement.
But then again, you know this. Or you would not be here.
FUCK YOU RUTEE! FUCK YOU