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A Nice Guy’s lament: “First, they came for the rapists … .”

You’ve all seen the famous quote attributed to German religious leader Martin Niemöller:

First they came for the communists,

and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Now one embittered “Nice Guy” on Tumblr who goes by the name joetomcollins has written his own version, with feminists as the Nazis, rapists as the communists, and, well, just read it yourself:

When the Feminists came for the Rapists,

I remained silent;

I was not a Rapist.

When they locked up the stalkers,

I remained silent;

I was not a stalker.

When they came for the Players,

I did not speak out;

I was not a Player.

When they came for the men who they got bored of,

I remained silent;

I wasn’t some one they were bored of yet.

When they came for me, the nice guy,

there was no one left to speak out.

So, yeah. Let’s think this through a little bit. When Niemöller made his now famous remarks, he was expressing his own sorrow for not standing up to Hitler when he started arresting Communists. So is joetomcollins suggesting that he – and we – should have stopped “the feminists” from going after rapists and stalkers?

Joetomcollins doesn’t say, but he does have a lot more to say on the evilness of feminists and stuck-up women in general:

[I]f I’m going to be the bad guy no matter what I do… might as well get it the fuck out the way right up front.

I might as well ENJOY being the villain.

The FemeNazi messsage is LOUD AND CLEAR!

I am an average normal guy. I am never going to be good enough.

Especially in NYC where you only personalities you get are native “rats” who have learned to survive to being ruthless, and Type “A” psychopaths who come here to conquer everything.

Dude, if you don’t like the people in New York, then maybe, just maybe, you should move out of New York. It’s a high-pressure place and, well, you don’t seem to respond well to pressure, let’s put it that way.

He continues on with a refrain that I suspect will sound awfully familiar to a lot of you:

Man hasn’t had the ability to choose his woman for at least the last 150 years. The woman chooses the man. ALWAYS.

Now even showing interest is offensive to the FemeNAZI.

We aren’t talking about DOING anything but telling someone you think they are attractive. If a guy YOU liked rejected you, he would be Satan incarnate, but when a woman rejects a guy…

“HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER!!!”

“HOW DARE HE THINK HE WAS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME!!!!!”

… and we’re supposed to nod sheepishly and apologize for bothering you as we leave with a smile.

When I read shit like this I have to wonder: who exactly are you approaching, and what exactly are you saying to them? I’ve made some awkward passes in my day, but I’ve never gotten this response from anyone.

Could it be that you’re a dick? Your post seems to suggest that you are — an angry, self-obsessed dick almost completely lacking in self-awareness and empathy.

I mean, seriously, comparing your inability to get laid to the fucking Holocaust? Your bad luck with women to the murder of millions? Douche move, my man.

If you embrace your dickhood, as you seem to want to do, and become much more straightforward about your sexual desires, instead of trying to hide behind a nice-guy facade, you might actually get laid more often than you’re getting now. But you’re not likely to get a lot of repeat customers. And for good reason: no woman wants (or deserves) to be saddled with all your bullshit.

So let’s assume, for the purpose of argument, that you’re not a full-blown dick; you’re just a horny young guy on a sexual losing streak lashing out at women for your own failures. Let’s assume you are willing to work on actually reducing your dickishness. (Readers: All I ask is a little temporary suspension of disbelief.)

Reading your account of your romantic failures, and bearing in mind that most straight men don’t get this sort of response from the women they approach, there are several possibilities:

  1. either you are exaggerating the alleged awfulness of the rejections you’ve gotten, or
  2. there is something desperately wrong with your approach — perhaps you’re cornering women in elevators at 4 AM, or otherwise transgressing their boundaries in inappropriate ways — or
  3. the women you are approaching are, you know, bitches.

You really only have two choices here: you can spend the rest of your life wallowing in bitterness at women, or you can reconsider your approach. Find some woman you are friendly with – one you are not obsessed with fucking – and explain to her what’s going on, and ask her where you think you’re going wrong. If it’s your approach, learn to better respect people’s boundaries and read their body language; some women don’t want to be bugged by anyone when they are, you know, on the way to work. If it’s your selection of women, select different women.

And stop posting tirades on the internet about how women are a bunch of evil Nazis out to oppress you and your poor lonely penis. You know how, when you jump into cold water, your genitals shrink in horror from the cold? Something similar happens to the vaginas of most women when they read shit like you just wrote.

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ozymandias42
9 years ago

Why would I want to come for the players? I mean, I like players, as long as they’re respectful and sex-positive and fun to get along with. I want to get laid a lot, they want to facilitate this. Our interests are compatible. I mean, it might be annoying for the monogamous-committed-sex-only people to be hit on by someone just looking for a casual thing, but that’s not inherently more annoying than someone looking for a monogamous committed relationship hitting on a player, and either way I’m not going to–

…Oh, you mean that kind of “come for.” Cool. Carry on.

Nahida
9 years ago

LAWL I love it when these guys try to be “intellectual and deep.”

Tabby Lavalamp
Tabby Lavalamp
9 years ago

Damn it! Close down the Nice Guy “holiday” camps NOW! They’re on to us!

Sharculese
9 years ago

first they came for the guys who write in stale cliches,

and i did speak out, but it was just to say ‘yeah fuck those guys’.

filetofswedishfish
9 years ago

So, wait a minute. He doesn’t think stalkers and rapists should be “come for”? What, exactly, should we do with them? /rhetorical question.

Nahida
9 years ago

Give them cookies.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

It’s hard to come up with any interpretation of that little verse that doesn’t make it sound like the guy’s pro-rape.

I also think his idea of choosing a woman isn’t in the “which women shall I approach for dates?” sense but in the “I’d like that one, please bag her up for delivery” sense.

And I think possibility 1 is the major one here. A lot of guys seem to take a “no, I’m not interested” (or, god forbid, a “you’re making me uncomfortable”) as a “GRRARGH I HATE YOU AND LAUGH AT YOU AND AM DISGUSTED BY YOU!” Rejection does sting, but… there’s just no perspective there.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

He seems to regret that you can’t just club a woman over the head and drag her back to the cave.

I’ve turned guys down before, but never like that. I bet his approach is terrible if in fact he is getting those reactions (which I doubt–he’s hearing HOW DARE YOU, but it’s probably more like “no, thank you”).

theLaplaceDemon
theLaplaceDemon
9 years ago

I would like to cosign Ozy’s comment.

Also, as I said on the forum, the whole “I should have stood up for the rapists and stalkers” implication (assertion?) kinda freaks me out.

Best case scenario: Dude is kinda illiterate and doesn’t know the point of the original poem.
Worst case scenario: Those poor rapists shouldn’t be prosecuted????

filetofswedishfish
9 years ago

Holly- I’m pretty sure these guys’ ideal dating scenario resembles Ye Olde Horse Faire.

tofu nutloaf
tofu nutloaf
9 years ago

Dude has clearly not figured out that genuinely nice guy =/= pro-rape selfish asshole.

Not to mention that he’s got the whole choosing partners thing all wrong; both people are pretty much gonna need to be involved in that decision, or no one is going to be happy. but i suppose if you really enjoy wallowing in your own misery, then having a partner who hates you is probably the ideal scenario.

Bostonian
Bostonian
9 years ago

Sometimes the Goodwin writes itself.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

FoSF – I don’t think these guys have an ideal dating scenario.

I really don’t. I think their ideal dating scenario is actually a very poorly coalesced thing in which they choose the woman (but don’t have the burden of making the first move) and the woman wants to sleep with them right away (but isn’t a dirty slut) and she wants to marry them (but isn’t clingy or commitment-demanding) and be their full-time domestic servant (but doesn’t take any of their money).

They understand that they’re unhappy with their current dating scenario, but I don’t think that they actually have a fully realized alterative in mind.

Theresa (@BooBooMatrix)

wut?

Aaron Swanson
Aaron Swanson
9 years ago

http://www.prisonplanet.com/rick-perry-hurt-little-girls.html

Hey pussy beggar, let’s see how “White Knight” you really are, c’mon, O that’s right, you dare not bite the hand that feeds YOUR masters, HA HA HAAAAH!

pi male
pi male
9 years ago

This is hilarious, I clicked on the about me tab on the tumblr page and this is what it says:

I have never commanded respect, only earned it.
When I have tried to command it with fear, rage, or ego, I have lost it.

I can be disappointed when people don’t meet my expectations,
but I have no right to blame them for that failing.

I cannot control how the world treats me or reacts to me,
I can only control my expectations and reactions to those things.

I can protect myself from abuse,
with out abusing in retaliation.

The universe tells us we must be petty and cruel to survive.
I will show you all, that the universe is wrong.

I will fail in every one of these creeds because I am human.
I will try again in every one of them because I will be divine.

I am ruthless in my compassion.
I am aggressive in my kindness.
I will make the world a better place by example.

I am Joe Tom Collins.

That made me giggle to no end. I think joetomcollins is going to be my new catchphrase for hypocritical douchiness.

NF4ever
NF4ever
9 years ago

At least Joe hasn’t met up with the evo psych MRAs yet. Those guys fantasize that in the ancient Paleolithic past, men just got to run up and club any desirable 13-year-old over the head and drag her by the hair to their mancave. To them, men are “nice” when, out of the goodness of their hearts, they refrain from doing so. They truly believe this. In their minds, their failures and rejections are indignities men never evolved to suffer. In “nature”, men have the upper hand, and it’s only culture (read: patriarchal “civilization”) that keeps men from getting what’s rightly theirs. They’re protecting us from themselves, see? Joe already thinks like this, just without the patina of “scientism”…

A couple of obvious problems with this thinking: first, humans have always lived in tribes. Back when survival was much more difficult than it is now, unwanted pregnancies were a huge drain on tribal resources. Marriage-type commitment ceremonies developed in part to cut down on baby mama drama, and unwanted children, so resources could be allocated fairly and efficiently. Of course, men got to decide how that was done. But there was never a time when men just got to willy nilly stick it wherever they pleased.

Second, anyone with 3-credits worth of freshman biology knows that females in just about every species are the “choosers” and always have been. If they want to thank anyone for trying to take women out of the “gatekeeper” role, it’s feminists. D’oh reality is hard!

Johnny
Johnny
9 years ago

Classic “nice guy” ploy: Well, I’ve been nice for long enough, I’m gonna become one of the “assholes”, just you wait, you’re really going to rue the day that YOU let this happen!

I remember thinking shit like this when I was like 19.

Spearhafoc
9 years ago

Isn’t it usually “Feminazi”?

“FemeNazi” brings to mind images of goose stepping in high heels and frilly dresses.

shaenon
9 years ago

I bet one million billion kazillion dollars that this guy has never actually asked a woman out and these cruel rejections exist only in his head. He’s angry that hot women have not telepathically guessed his interest in them, broken down his dorm-room door, and jumped on his cock while he’s sitting at his computer typing this crap.

It’s like how MRAL’s “women spit on me” turned out to mean “women walk past me on the street, sometimes with boyfriends who aren’t me, without stopping to offer me a blow job.”

Still, you can’t tell me you didn’t cry at the end of Schindler’s List, when Oskar Schindler broke down crying because selling his watch could have gotten one more rapist out on parole.

no more mr nice guy
9 years ago

These guys want women out of their league or already taken. And they are so socially retarded that they come off as very creepy. One of them wanted to go to public places to ask attractive women to go out with him and if the woman refused he wanted to ask her if she knew other attractive women.

And these guys really believe that stalkers and rapists are Alpha male.

shaenon
9 years ago

“This car…why did I keep the car? It could have bought ten rapes…twenty rapes! This pin… this pin could have paid for a pile of dead kittens for a stalker to leave on his coworker’s doorstep! This ring could have bought a pickup artist one more stupid hat!”

Sharculese
9 years ago

i think the part about “the men they got bored of [sic]” is actually the creepiest part.

“fuck you for moving on with your life. you have personally holocausted me.”

Sharculese
9 years ago

@shaenon- lmfao

NF4ever
NF4ever
9 years ago

The only stalkers I’ve ever had were exactly like Joe. Both of them. Exactly. It’s almost uncanny how foundational NiceGuy(tm) pathological thinking is to their sick stalking behaviors.

I’ve never once had an “alpha male” harass me, call me names because I wouldn’t go out with him, follow me home, hack into my computer, change my email passwords, log onto my bank accounts to keep track of what I’m up to, spread ridiculous rumors about me, and act all kinds of obsessive. But I’ve had “NiceGuys” do all these things, to the point where I’ve had to get police involved, several times. I joke but they’re frightening people…

no more mr nice guy
9 years ago

There’s a guy (Charlesddt1) that posted a creepy video on Youtube of what he said was his ex girlfriend (Megan) saying that wanted to take her back:

Then a woman showed up in the comment section saying that she was Megan and that she has never been the girlfriend of Charlesddt1 and that the guy with her in the pictures is not Charlesddt1 and that Charlesddt1 stole her Facebook pictures to make the video. I think that many of these Nice Guys(TM) are like that : they steal Facebook pictures of women and then claim these women are their girlfriends.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

Also!

“Being nice” is necessary but not sufficient to get laid. This applies for everyone. If you want someone to have sex with you, then you need to be someone who they want to have sex with. If you want someone to have a relationship with you, then you need to actively bring value to their lives.

This applies the other way too– “s/he’s nice and interested in me” is NOT a good reason to date someone.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

shaenon: I sporfled.

mephistephanies
mephistephanies
9 years ago

What is with this expectation that every woman you talk to is supposed to throw themselves at your feet and beg to touch your penis? Is Hustler writing life now?

ozymandias42
9 years ago

No, not every woman you talk to. Just the hot ones.

FelixBC
FelixBC
9 years ago

Any chance these nice guys tm are physically attracted to exactly the women most likely to reject them? I think you can usually tell when a person is, let’s see, defensive, has guards up, has ‘tude, is unlikely to receive approaches, while also being “hot”. I run into people every so often who radiate “back off” signals. If I’m (perversely?) interested in foisting myself onto them, literally or figuratively, it’s not going to end well. I might even get spat on, or sworn at, if I really push it. Somehow I see slavey and mral doing this…

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

No, not every woman you talk to. Just the hot ones.

You had me going there for a second, Ozy, but I’m too smart for you. If she isn’t hot, she doesn’t count as a woman. She’s just a faceless humanoid occupying some space.

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

Off-topic: there is a dog sitting in my lap licking my face. That’s her picture on the left.

That is all.

no more mr nice guy
9 years ago

What is with this expectation that every woman you talk to is supposed to throw themselves at your feet and beg to touch your penis?

These guys have Narcissistic Personality Disorder and believe the world revolve around them and that they are entitled to women. That’s why they cannot stand seeing women with others guys. George Sodini had the same mental problem.

theLaplaceDemon
theLaplaceDemon
9 years ago

@JohnnyPez

I miss having dogs 🙁

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

hugs theLaplaceDemon

katz
9 years ago

Do you live in an apartment?

theLaplaceDemon
theLaplaceDemon
9 years ago

Yep. I also anticipate moving a fair amount over the next few years, and generally do not have the resources to be a good dog owner at the moment. But I grew up with dogs and miss them a lot.

captainbathrobe
9 years ago

Dang, those feminists will come for just about anyone!

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

I think any guy should be pretty insulted by this poem -_- He puts guys that aren’t hurting nebody (players, boring guys, nice guys) on a spectrum w/ rapists and stalkers, as if they’re kinda all the same O_O;; And that’s creepy as f- … Also it’s rly insulting to the original poem and survivors of the holocaust and well… just everybody I’d think >_:|

This is serious WTFery. >_<;;

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

I think any guy should be pretty insulted by this poem -_- He puts guys that aren’t hurting nebody (players, boring guys, nice guys) on a spectrum w/ rapists and stalkers, as if they’re kinda all the same O_O;; And that’s creepy as f- … Also it’s rly insulting to the original poem and survivors of the holocaust and well… just everybody I’d think -_-; (except rapists) Rapists harm ppl by being rapists. Jewish ppl, or gypsies, or etc do not. Rapists aren’t some poor beset upon ethnic group that is being persecuted -_-

Also, he seems to think all rapists are male (again, rapists as part of a continuum of men) and that rape survivors can’t be male (since he seems to not think of rape as a bad thing and just some weird thing women don’t like) >:|

This is serious WTFery. >_<;;

(sry HTML broke)

no more mr nice guy
9 years ago

Also, he seems to think all rapists are male (again, rapists as part of a continuum of men) and that rape survivors can’t be male (since he seems to not think of rape as a bad thing and just some weird thing women don’t like)

MRAs treat male-on-male rape as something normal. For example, Roissy said that female cuckolding is worst than butt rape and most his fan-club agreed with him ::

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/cuckoldry-vs-butt-rape/

One of The Spearhead author is Jack Donovan and he’s gay. He has written several books about homosexuality (which he called androphilia) and he defended male-on-male sexual harassment saying it’s normal male bonding and most of his fans agreed with him :

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/01/22/male-on-male-sexual-harassment/

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

omg I saw Jack Donovan all over the comments in the Spearhead article about trans ppl… and he seems to think bullying of boys is a good thing too O_O;;;

NF4ever
NF4ever
9 years ago

@No More Mr. Nice Guy

Yeah, these guys are good at cooking up bogus relationships in their minds that never really happened. I’d never even talked to one of the guys who followed me around.

I think we need to start having “relationship ed” just like we have “sex ed” in school. There are a whole lot of people who have no clue what a healthy attitude toward relationships looks like. When you look at guys like Samuel, who are so obviously clueless, and yet begging for some kind of guidance, you wonder if maybe giving them advice in the formative years might have paid off… the messages they get from media are so mixed that they’re not helping, either.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

WTF… that Roissy thing… is he rly advocating for male survivors to just “suck it up” and thinks PTSD can be just “worked out in a gym” (in fact he seems to imply it has positive side effects since ppl will compliment your physique) and also for male survivors to not tell nebody!? >_:O

Theresa (@BooBooMatrix)

Ok, reading the comments it occurs to me to say this. The profile for stalking victim…”nice girls” the ones that appear accessible and “nice” they get the most stalkers. True story, just thought I would throw that in here. Is there projection going on with this dude? His entitled outlook is not nice at all.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

I just tried to read the comments on Roissy’s piece and I almost threw up : (srsly, not rhetorically) and I couldn’t continue… they srsly all seem to think rape is no big deal and it’s over in “90 seconds” and you get a little PTSD for a couple months maybe, don’t talk about it, then you move on w/ your life… >_<

Moewicus
Moewicus
9 years ago

As bad as it sounds, he does have a point. I can’t count the number of times I’ve thought “man, I am in the middle of a no-sex holocaust”.

Er, scratch that, I have never thought that. In fact the history of Nazi Germany provides a terrible metaphor for feminism or a dearth of sexytime. You have to spend a lot of time deliberately getting yourself angry at women (not even a woman, but women in general) to even come up with something like this. Joe Tom Collins’ notion that he is a Nice Guy is part of the personal mythology that tells him that is is an injustice that he is not getting laid and allows him to criticize women for refusing to be “chosen” by him, and thereby justify the “transition” to Bad Guy.

no more mr nice guy wrote:
“For example, Roissy said that female cuckolding is worst than butt rape and most his fan-club agreed with him”

Notice how he lovingly accentuates the pain of being cuckolded but treats the outcome of rape as some sort of silent, inert shame that at the most inspires you to work out more. And after raising a child for ten years, suddenly it’s an outrage that the hypothetical man can’t stop paying child support. What loving father would want to stop supporting a child he raised, biological or not? Roissy(/Heartiste?) never mentions a damaged bond with the child as one of the consequences. It’s like he thinks fatherhood is a financial investment. Second verse, same as the first: it’s the result of a lot of time spent getting angry about very particular things.

Budmin
Budmin
9 years ago

Alright people it’s obvious that this dude is completely panic stricken.
 I’m guessing the rejections he visualizes in his mind have taken over his  psyche.

Rejections are hardly ever that bad & I don’t think this dude is willing to find out.
 The man has a phobia thats manifested into hatred…..and….Now I’m wondering if this is a common trend.

no more mr nice guy
9 years ago

omg I saw Jack Donovan all over the comments in the Spearhead article about trans ppl… and he seems to think bullying of boys is a good thing too O_O;;;

You mean this article ?

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/12/01/suicidal-tendencies/

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