MGTOWers have such a way with words. Here’s MrLahey on MGTOWforums explaining his movement in a nutshell:
[W]e’re voting with our feet, and the best way to say no to the cunted circus is to stop feeding it with your participation.
They’ll only notice you when they’re short your money.
“Cunted circus.” Lovely. I will be working it into as many conversations as I dare. Assuming I can figure out how to use it in a sentence. Can you?
(I’m taking off the “cunt” filter for the occasion.)
Samuel, as a parent of daughters, I do not want them trying to date MGTOW, because I want my daughters to be with people who love them.
I do not think that is unreasonable or awful.
MGTOW post screeds about the horribleness of women and how much they hate them. I can only go by what they actually post and what I have seen.
@cynickal:
I probably haven’t been paying very good attention then. I was just listing names I recall hearing. *shrug* Sorry about that.
You can keep burning your bra though, I don’t mind. 😛
cynickal, I’ve noticed that the only three feminists that all MRA’s can name are Andrea Dworkin, Amanda Marcotte and Hugo Schwyzer (*sigh*). That alone tells you a lot more about the borderline-narcissistic nature of the MRM than years of reading could. 😀
Amanda would probably boggle at the notion that she’s a radfem, if she hadn’t heard it umpty-billion times…
Kirby – Amanda Marcotte isn’t all that extremist, she’s just a little further left (and a little more pugnacious) than most popular Internet feminists, so she gets picked on as the Dworkin of our day even though she’s nothing like Dworkin. Most of what she says is actually extremely reasonable.
She’s more of a Designated Target than anything, and because she’s quite popular it’s easy to disdain lots of people for linking to her. After a while the MRAs started talking as if it’s taken for granted that Marcotte is the worst misandrist ever, and the only question is whether all feminists are that bad or not.
If you want a Designated Target who’s actually unfriendly to men and is still alive, they’re out there on the Internet (as is everything), but none of them are actually popular enough to effectively use against most feminists. Biting Beaver comes up, but seriously, how many people here actually read Biting Beaver?
You know, I hate to say this to someone who clearly likes me, but…
It is not actually feminism’s job to reach out to MGTOW. There are a lot of non-misogynistic well-meaning men who need to be educated before we get to the WOMEN ALL SUCK people. The WOMEN ALL SUCK people need a therapist, not a feminist trying to help them out.
But, you know what, I’ll bite. What are your concerns that feminism might help address? Do you have any questions or concerns about feminist ideas? Do you want recommendations for some good introductory books to feminism?
I’ll say this again Why take the most Hate filled mgtow guys and say we are all like that. Many mgtow guys are not like that. They are sad and angry at women because the love women. For crying out loud WE WERE IN A WOMANS WOMB FOR 9 MONTHS WE LOVE OUR MOMS SISTER, WOMEN TEACHERS WHO IMPACTED US IN SCHOOL,. Most of these MGTOW guys are just “threatening”. I believe if some feminists were caring and bold, like OZYMANDIAS, it could make an impact
. As far as this statement “Samuel If someone came up to a black man and said “Hey, i’m a racist. I think it would be better if all the blacks just went back to africa. But I can learn! Please, come show the other racists that you’re a good guy! Sure, they may curse you and be jackasses, but you can do it Show them you’re good!” Do you think it would get any kind of good response? Do you think it would be up to the black man to show the racists that he’s actually a good person?”” You cannot make the same analogy. The gender war involves 50% of people in our world.Racial issues involve a smaller population( I believe in racial equality for all people). No man no matter what Cannot avoid half the population. Plus we were raised born by a woman. A racist white guy was not in a black persons womb for 9 months
Lastly, medium Dave I understand you are pro feminist. I actually heard a feminist say that she thinks a lot of.en who support feminists and bash mra’s are actually trying to be White Knights and get laid. What do you think?
Also, Ozymandias is taking the initiative.She started her own blog to reach to mgtow mra’s/ She even said on her blog,, for MRA men who are feminist to start their own blog. So if any feminist want to join this mgtow feminist let me know. If you can write articles, you will be compensated monetarily whatever the pay for writers are.
FYI I am celibate I am absolutely not trying to objectify women anymore.
Samuel, as others have said, the hate filled MGTOWs are the ones who post. I have not seen non hatefilled ones.
/enters after triumphantly burning bras
Wait… Amanda is radical?
She’s just the only feminist MGTOW / MRM have heard of?
Crap.
Anyone have a spare bra? My man boobz are feeling unbound and exposed.
🙁
I think that you’re full of shit, Samuel. Any other questions?
About the being born to a woman thing, BTW, find me a man alive who wasn’t… oh, right. You can’t. Until those artificial womb-thingies come on the market.
FYI sexual attraction to women isn’t “objectification.” Feminists really have no interest in quashing male attraction to women.
Many mgtow guys are not like that. They are sad and angry at women because the love women.
Being “sad and angry” at an entire gender isn’t pitiable. It’s just wrong. These guys you talk about being hurt by women–they weren’t. They were hurt by specific women. To take that out on all women is no more justifiable than taking it out on everyone with brown hair because a brunette abused you.
I actually heard a feminist say that she thinks a lot of.en who support feminists and bash mra’s are actually trying to be White Knights and get laid. What do you think?
I don’t think she was actually a feminist. That’s an MRA line because they can’t conceive of any other reason to be a decent person.
So if any feminist want to join this mgtow feminist let me know.
I don’t think you can be a MGTOW and a feminist at the same time. You can’t avoid an entire gender because you don’t like them and simultaneously advocate for gender equality. (Although you aren’t avoiding women, as repeatedly demonstrated by the fact that you keep talking to us. Maybe you’re just a “celibate feminist” and not actually a MGTOW at all?)
If you can write articles, you will be compensated monetarily whatever the pay for writers are.
…
Me! Or I did before her blog was locked down… I no longer have access, and actually have no idea if it’s still being updated. I know that Mandos (an occasional commenter here) commented there, though he wasn’t terribly popular. 😀
There is some disagreement about why she locked her blog down, but I may never know for sure, as I wouldn’t know how to contact BB now. Was she unfriendly to men? Seems like she wasn’t back then; she was always kind to me, f’rinstance. Is she now? Well, being deluged with rape and murder threats will do that to a gal. 🙁
Actually, NSWATM isn’t about reaching out to MRAs, it’s about talking about men’s rights, a cause for which many MRAs range from unhelpful to actively harmful.
Objectification is not about being sexually attracted to women. It’s about treating women as objects– one common form of which is as a sex object. For instance, if you flirt with a hot chick and she says she’s not interested and your reaction is to feel a little sad and rejected, you’re not objectifying her. But if you flirt with a hot chick and she says she’s not interested and your reaction is “butbutbut why is the pussy dispenser broken? I wore my funny hat and everything!” you are objectifying her. Make sense?
Also there really isn’t a gender war. There’s a war of people of both genders against The Patriarchy, but we aren’t fighting each other. Our interests are aligned.
Also, I make no money from writing about masculism on the Internet. This is strictly For The Luv.
Holly I don’t know what I am at this Point, I would say at this point I am not sure. I still will say I think one can be a Man Going His Away MGTOW and be a feminist. It just means That “Going your own way” can be a Feminist male and “going your own way could mean feminists to join you. It is like what Ozy is asking for. Ozy said to an mra guy that was a feminist to start his own blog. Words are words, I have heard women on the site Jezebel use the term “equalist”.
I still consider myself an MGTOW feminist and I am maybe the male equivalent of Ozy. Ozy is very courageous. If you use the term Celibate Feminist that is fine with me. Feminists have no intention of quashing male attraction to women(as Holly implied). I am just stating what I heard that some feminists say that men objectify woman. and these feminists hate porn and think men objectify women. Holly since you seem to have strong opinions on this, I need feminist with good writing/blogging skills for my journey.Feminists join us men as we men and women can each ‘go our own way” and healing between genders can begin. I as a man have such compassion for these guys.
I think behind the most extreme MGTOW is a lot of sadness and hurt.hTese men do Not need feminists for therapy or hugs -they just want to be understood as Ozymandias has done eloquently on her blog..
Samuel: I’ll say this again Why take the most Hate filled mgtow guys and say we are all like that. Many mgtow guys are not like that.
Fine, link to them. Show us these loving, moderate, men who are so scared of women they can’t stand to be around them.
They are sad and angry at women because the love women. For crying out loud WE WERE IN A WOMANS WOMB FOR 9 MONTHS WE LOVE OUR MOMS SISTER, WOMEN TEACHERS WHO IMPACTED US IN SCHOOL
Immaterial. Being a fetus isn’t a reciprocal emotional relationship. Unless you are alleging that these men, (like Mouse in Ladyhawke) rememeber being a fetus it’s gibberish to allege it’s relevant to being causitive for a love of women. Moreover a love for a specific woman/person doesn’t invalidate hatred for the group to which that person belongs (e.g., I’m not an anti-Semite, my best friend is a Jew).
FYI I am celibate I am absolutely not trying to objectify women anymore.
No. Just no. Not having sex doesn’t mean one isn’t objectifying women. Treating them as objects instead of people is objectifying women. I look at women. Sometimes I look at them with lustful eyes. Sometimes I look at them purely as aesthetic objects to photograph. Sometimes I look at them as obstacles to be avoided when walking, or driving, or riding a motorcycle.
In none of those cases am I “objectifying” them, because I am not interacting with them as if they were nothing more than creatures to be compliant to my will.
Samuel: You are *not* making the effort. You are telling us we are being mean to the poor beleaguered MGTOWs, who only want feminists to understand them, and to “bridge the gap” we have to go and tell them how we don’t hate men, and we feel for their poor widdle egos what was hurt by some nasty woman in the past.
Bullshit.
I’ve looked at their fora. I know what they think. They think feminists are man hating, “femnuts” with “hamster brains” who don’t appreciate that MGTOWs hunted mammoths and invented elevators (and will be bogarting flying cars as soon as they can get away from all the nasty women who aren’t paying any attention to them; and preventing them from being able to concentrate).
You say you know MGTOWs who are sensitive souls who don’t hate women, merely fear them.
Fine, bring them here. We’ll talk to them.
But like I said, if they want me to meet them halfway, they better start walking toward me
Pecunium, A lot of these mgtow guys have commented that when they attempt to dialogue with feminists, they have been shamed mocked called creeps losers, pigs. aholes and even worse. A lot of MGTOW guys have attempted to debate on feminist sites and they feel they get shut down and mocked and abused.
They do not realize that some branches of feminism support MRA’s. Also some feminists(not all) have gone on MGTOW sites and commented with curse words saying ” I hope all you guys die”) .This feminist comment had to be removed it was so abusive. A lot of MGTOW guys told me they are resistant to going to this site because they will be mocked made fun of called creeps and told to die. There has be a middle ground. Ozymandias is the only only one I know of attemting to bridge the gap. Percunium if your interested in writing for me, or joining me to all go our own way and no care what people men or women think. shoot me an email I’m looking for feminist writers I have some ideas. [email protected]
@Samuel:
“Pecunium, A lot of these mgtow guys have commented that when they attempt to dialogue with feminists, they have been shamed mocked called creeps losers, pigs. aholes and even worse. A lot of MGTOW guys have attempted to debate on feminist sites and they feel they get shut down and mocked and abused.”
I’ve heard this line way to often. “We try to talk to you guys, but you just call us creeps and losers! You’re all big meanies!”
Do you know what MGTOWs say when they are “debating?” Do you know what threads they comment on, what their attitude is, how off-topic/on-topic they were, how well they were listening to and responding to the opposing side, anything at all? Nobody on this site immediately dismisses someone for no reason. Nobody I know of would delight in randomly singling out someone as an asshole, nor agree to such a classification without any reason.
Another huge difference between the movements. Reveal yourself as a woman in the MRM community, and you get “hamster-brained,” “child-like,” “hormonal/pmsing,” etc. Reveal yourself as a man in the feminist community, and you get “so what?”
Before you defend your fellow MGTOWs from being called names, first make sure that they actually don’t deserve the labels in the first place. Cause honestly? Most of them do.
A lot of these mgtow guys have commented that when they attempt to dialogue with feminists, they have been shamed mocked called creeps losers, pigs. aholes and even worse. A lot of MGTOW guys have attempted to debate on feminist sites and they feel they get shut down and mocked and abused.
It is not abuse to be told you are wrong. It is not being mocked when a poster challenges the claims that a MGTOW makes by both refuting and showing evidence that challenges the claims.
It could possibly be mocking or abuse if the poster is told they are lying when revealing a personal story.
But the problem you have is that women are not doing all the work (once again) and these MGTOW are required to back up their claims. It makes you sad faced to have to actually do anything when obviously it should be all done by a woman. As I said, again.
Samuel: Nonsense. I don’t believe them. Show me examples of these reactive insults. Show me where a man goes to a feminists site and, without anything more than being a man who disagrees (no insults, no mockery, no use of belittling, or shaming, language) gets mocked and ridiculed by everyone there.
I won’t deny the possibility that there are some women/feminists out there who do hate men, and insult them for the sake of metaphorically kicking all men in the nuts, but if they do, I’ll bet someone calls them on it.
Even the serial liars here (NMO, Eoghan, Marc, Ion) were treated, by and large, with restraint. Until they showed their true colors they were treated as honest actors.
Some (e.g. MRAL) have been treated well even after they have done things which could merit banning.
So go on, show me the cases of these “well intentioned men, trying to establish dialogue” and getting insulted for it.
I have to say, in my experience with MRAs, nearly all of them who show up on feminist websites are… rather deserving… of their insults.
Big deal, So they were just words.No one can throw rocks in cyberspace. That is the beauty of the Internet. If not Kirby start your own blog lie Ozymandias had the courage to do that and she is still standing. Even if you as a woman reached just 1 man just 1 mgtow and made an impact, you’ve. given a human being hope(not man woman human being)
Big deal, So they were just words.No one can throw rocks in cyberspace.
And what’s coming back at them is just words.
Even if you as a woman reached just 1 man just 1 mgtow and made an impact, you’ve. given a human being hope(not man woman human being)
MGTOWs are free to read my blog, free to read Ozy’s blog, free to read THIS blog. What more would you like us to do for them?
I dunno, personally I’m concentrating my education energy on trying to reach people who don’t already hate women. 🙂
Also Kirby is a dude. I will never get over how everyone assumes MRAs are male and feminists are female…