Science Corner: Why some self-obsessed douchebags hate the ladies so much

In terms of translating, the whole “toxic masculinity” debate was sparked, IIRC, by the TV ad depicting the baby and the injunction to raise your boys to not be violent to women. Naturally, the MRAs went ape-shit and accused the sponsor of accusing a baby of being a rapist. I don’t really want to rehash the whole debate, because it was predictably tedious and unproductive, but I think at some point I mentioned the concept of “toxic masculinity”–essentially, the idea that one can be a man without being a dick. Seems pretty straightforward, right? Well, RB seized on that as proof that I was renouncing all masculinity and proceeded to call me “Captain Pink Bathrobe” and a variety of other clever names. To be fair, RB may remember things differently.

I think it was at this point that he came up with rather odd image of David and I as two yapping dogs kept in the handbag of a large, hairy-legged feminist, who occasionally let us out for good behavior. We had some laughs over that one, and then Elizabeth offered me some bacon, and the enduring “bacon” meme was thus established.

So, thanks, RB?

Rutee, I don’t think that there are any movements are completely free of bigotry. They’d be movements without people and prejudice and bigotry -to a certain degree- are innate aspects of the human condition.

When I started exploring 2nd wave feminism as a teenager I found it really dismissive of Black women. When I dug a little deeper, I found it really dismissive of women of color, generally and found some things that I really had a problem with in terms of people being oblivious about their level privilege. When I started reading the writing of some Radical Feminists, I thought “Yeah, I’m all for equality and education, and voting and shit… but these people are crazy, and I don’t feel like Feminism really speaks to me.”

Then, you know, I began reading more Womanist writers. I discovered Audre Lorde and bell hooks. I re-read all the Morrison I’d read up until that point. Somebody gave me a copy of Blues Legacies and Black Feminism and I got into Angela Davis. The list goes on. And it started to occur to me that the women belonging to any given ethnic group probably have their own take on feminism and I began to explore that as well.

It let me feel that Feminism had a place to me, to examine and dtermine what I identify as the common struggles of women and men, and let me look at mainstream and, eventually 3rd wave, feminism with a more open mind. Not because I agree with anything, because I don’t. And I’m a feminist; it’s not a label I back away from or feel the need to downplay. But, I’m my own type of feminist and I know that my cultural background and ethnic “identity” play a part in that.

So, you know, Random Brother says that he recognizes bigotry within the MRM -and you’d have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to. He claims to be antifeminist but does not consider himself and MRA.

I have curiosity. I’m wondering if there are any modern writers/thinkers/blogges/whatevers within the MRM that write about its issues from the perspective of men of color, or who disavow the some of the bigotry in the more vocal movement.

Thought I’d ask.

@ Nobinayamu

On the forum, Ami did a thread about a black MRA who called himself Samuel X. On the subject of women, he sounded just like the white MRAs.

Secret Room. The thread is called “Samuelx MRA porn author extraordinaire”. It consists of extracts from his literotica stories, which apparently are legion.

I’m wondering if there are any modern writers/thinkers/blogges/whatevers within the MRM that write about its issues from the perspective of men of color, or who disavow the some of the bigotry in the more vocal movement.

Nobinayamu, there is one that I know of… “Obsidian” who writes The Obsidian Files. He’s a black man who’s often been vocal in opposition to the racism in the MRM (in fact, saying so got him bounced from In Mala Fide). But when it comes to the topic of women he’s just as bad as any white MRA. And he seems especially contemptuous toward “sistas” who don’t know their place and speak up in public without permission from men.

The weird thing is: I read the piece that got “Ferdinand Bardamu” of In Mala Fide so bothered, and thought it was excellent. It was pointed, insightful, and sarcastic in just the right amount. It was way more truth than someone like “Ferdy” could handle, obviously.

But then the same man writes appalling stupid, bigoted things about women, and about black women at that. What I made of it was that very self-absorbed people can be excellent advocates for their own interests, while being absolutely terrible when it comes to other people’s interests. :/

Chuckedee wrote, “Oh come now ladies. The thing that gets you off is the spice, the risk, the danger and the excitement. No matter how much you say you want a sensitive, kind nurturing dude, the reality is that it’s the fear of the unknown and the thrill of the forbidden that gets you off. That’s why, for all your rhetoric wrt kind, nurturing, sensitive dudes, such as David 🙂 , you’re always vigilant for the formidable, shadowy figure beyond your immediate range of vision. At a deep, viceral level, you want someone who has viceral, authentic dominance over you that you can feel, try as you might to deny it. Consciously, you want sweetness and kindness and predictability, but subsconsciously, try as you might to resist it, you admire, at a gut level, someone who is dominant… that is, dominant over you. It is the formidable bad-boy in the shadows that catches your attention and has you fixating on him, even as you look away, trying to sum him up, trying to work out what it is about him that excites you.”

Chuckedee, I freely admit that I liked to be topped… but I also got to know my current partner for more than six months before we did a scene. This is because I know the difference between wanting rough sex and actual rape or abuse, which you seem to have a great deal of trouble with.

“What am I saying here? What I’m saying is that you ladies are, at heart, bullies. It is the dynamic of the bully that gets you off. That is to say, most often you realize your dominant role against your children, but you secretly enjoy your submission role with your dominant men. Nature has a way of realizing payback.”

I don’t have children, don’t want any. Where’s my need to be topped come from?

@ mediumdave

mediumdave said: Nobinayamu, there is one that I know of… “Obsidian” who writes The Obsidian Files. He’s a black man who’s often been vocal in opposition to the racism in the MRM (in fact, saying so got him bounced from In Mala Fide). But when it comes to the topic of women he’s just as bad as any white MRA. And he seems especially contemptuous toward “sistas” who don’t know their place and speak up in public without permission from men.

Random Brother:

You are missing a piece of the puzzle with regard to Obsidian’s alleged contempt for sistas, and it has little to do with them daring to getting out of line as you put it. It is in fact that most black women who were posting at his site are part of the BWE or black women empowerment, movement which in a nutshell is black women blaming black men for all of the african american community’s problem and trying to date, marry, and glorify all white men. That’s mostly why he’s rude to these types of women. These women also have a sort of passive aggressive hatred for white women and love to psychoanalyze (negatively) black men who date white women while praising interracial dating for themselves.

There are a couple of blogs like somethingscrewed and blackmenconfrontingtheliesanddistrotions that go into more detail about these “women.”

Random Brother
Red Sox suck.

Thanks, Summer Snow! I think I should start my own advice column.

Ami, Chuck must be a fundamentalist Christian, since he’s paraphrasing Genesis 3:16:

To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”

Granted, God didn’t say “And you’ll totally take it out on your poor defenceless children, you selfish bitch”, but that might just be Chuck’s mommy issues talking.

Oops! Last paragraph is emphatically *NOT* from the Bible. Tagfail!

I found a website that might be relevant to your interests!
http://incorrecthitler.tumblr.com/

today i Contributed to the Internet. *nods gravely*

There are East Asian MRAs, at least in Japan. They whine on 2ch about how women have done them up. To be fair, in Japan, at least, gender roles have completely fucked up for both genders, but blaming that on women without acknowledging how amazingly screwed up it is to seriously expect a maid and sex doll without any obligations on your part besides buying her food is really, really not cool.

Chuckeedee – A woman responds reflexively when she encounters a situation that overwhelms her, and this is beyond her control.

I’m not sure exactly what you’re saying here, but if you’re creating situations for your partners that “overwhelm” them, you’re doing it wrong.

Unless you’re trying to say that everything overwhelms women because we’re so damn delicate, in which case I can only answer that you should really go outside and see how people act sometime.

Humans have biological predispositions based on their sex, but gender roles do not really exist beyond the need to subscribe to culture’s requirements as an ecosystem.

That’s complete gobbeldygook. Culture isn’t an “ecosystem” and gender roles can’t be simultaneously totally cultural and totally natural.

And meanwhile dominant women are just, y’know, out there. Existing.