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antifeminism evil women misogyny MRA reddit woman's suffrage

I refuse to see dead people

We gave them the vote and they STILL won't shut up about it!

Apparently, all that time I spent studying history in college and grad school was a complete waste of time. Because once people die, nothing about their lives or the events that happened during their lives matters. At least according to merlin34 in Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit, who recently set forth this cogent argument as to  “Why feminists should SHUT THE $^%# UP about women’s suffrage in US/UK.

The 19th Amendment of the US Constitution was ratified in 1920, before that year’s election. At the time, the voting age was 21. Any woman who was denied the right to vote would have had to have been born before Election Day of 1898. Today, she would be 113+ years old. That means dead.

In the UK, it was in 1928 that women were granted equal voting rights to men, again at the age of 21 (although women over 30 were given the vote 10 years earlier). Any woman denied the right to vote based on sex in the UK would be over 105 years old now. There’s still probably some around, but not a lot, and not for much longer, and they weren’t denied the right to vote for long.

What does this have to do with anything? It means that feminists using the “women weren’t allowed to vote, wah” or “black men got the vote before women of any color” canards should SHUT UP, because the list of those actually denied the right to vote based on sex is rapidly diminishing. In another ten years, none will remain.

Naturally, the comments are also a delight. OThompson says:

You can also tell them that Suffragettes were often domestic terrorists.

AntiFeministMedia adds:

It isnt just feminists though is it, its any woman you get into an argument with.

If its not ‘women wernt allowed to vote’, its ‘rapists get off scott-free’. They ignore the context. When did universal sufferage for men go ahead in the UK? 1918?

Most women are ignorant of most of these issues, but they are happy to just parrot all this stuff because that makes them victims, and so they get privileges they arent really entitled to.

They dont care wether what they are saying is out of date, or that most men didnt recieve the vote untill very recently either, they only care that the female gravy train of victimhood keeps rolling on.

Is the Female Gravy Train of Victimhood anything like Soul Train? Because that would be awesome.

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magdelyns
9 years ago

First!

magdelyns
9 years ago

I pretty much agree with every comment posted in red above. You didn’t respond to any of them David. Posting Soul Train in its hay day, with Don Cornelius (who by the way, was a terrible dancer), doesn’t actually address the point.

magdelyns
9 years ago

Oh, one other thing. Did you ever notice that there were black, white and asian women on sould train, and only black dudes? Maybe there is some relevance.

speedlines
speedlines
9 years ago

If dead people don’t matter, maybe MRA’s can take their own advice and SHUT THE FUCK UP about Andrea Dworkin and Valerie Solanis.

Theresa (@BooBooMatrix)

People are fools if they do not click on that Soul Train offering there. That made my whole DAY. I shared it with plenty. Thanks David. Oh, about this dude…lolz. Great title!

Amanda Marcotte (@AmandaMarcotte)

I want to read this mysterious suffrage blog.

spearhafoc
spearhafoc
9 years ago

hey only care that the female gravy train of victimhood keeps rolling on.

Rob Ford, is that you?

/Toronto joke

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I’ve never said “women weren’t allowed to vote” just as a freestanding way to go “wah.”

I’ve said it in response to people who claim that there was never any discrimination against women.

SWGM
SWGM
9 years ago

By that token, African Americans should just shut up about slavery. All the slaves and slaveholders are dead, so it never happened! Whee! Also, there was never any systematic abuse of Native Americans! And absolutely no homosexuals were ever killed in the Holocaust! Also, all the first Christians are dead, so they should knock it off with the whining about how Jesus wept.

Whoo, this is fun. What other things don’t matter anymore?

spearhafoc
spearhafoc
9 years ago

by that token, African Americans should just shut up about slavery. All the slaves and slaveholders are dead, so it never happened!

You laugh, but I’ve heard this argument.

spearhafoc
spearhafoc
9 years ago

Shit! Frelling Blackberry!

captainbathrobe
9 years ago

Indeed, Holly. How many freaking times on this blog have MRAs asserted, against all evidence, that women have never, ever been oppressed? It’s an article of faith with them. We wouldn’t have to keep reminding them of basic history if they had a grasp of basic history to begin with.

filetofswedishfish
9 years ago

“By that token, African Americans should just shut up about slavery. All the slaves and slaveholders are dead, so it never happened! Whee! Also, there was never any systematic abuse of Native Americans! And absolutely no homosexuals were ever killed in the Holocaust! Also, all the first Christians are dead, so they should knock it off with the whining about how Jesus wept.”

I’ve also heard the argument “My ancestors/relatives got here after slavery was abolished/voting rights established for women! I can’t be racist/sexist! Why are you complaining to me?!”

Also- I think the point of non-response with the Soul Train video (which was awesome) was that there’s nothing worth responding to in the red blockquotes. When someone is that willfully ignorant and fact denying? All you can do is make them look even sillier than they already are.

Lou
Lou
9 years ago

Women were granted universal suffrage a hairs breath after men in the UK, literally a decade or two and the establishment dragged their feet because they didn’t want to be seen to be giving into terror tactics.

Anti feminist media is viewed as being a troll over on r/mr

Lou
Lou
9 years ago

Captain Bathrobe.

Nobody says women were never oppressed, many point out correctly that it was men at the top and at the bottom and that women were spared worst of the oppression.

Its silly feminists that depict it as all men were not oppressed and all women were.

Theresa (@BooBooMatrix)

Um, speedlines…Andrea Dworkin is not dead, unless I’m uninformed, or did not get the gist of your comment.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Andrea Dworkin died in 2005.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Lou – The key point here is, were men oppressed for being men?

Universal suffrage may have been late coming to the UK, but the people who were previously excluded were being excluded for other reasons, not because they were men.

G.L. Piggy
9 years ago

OT: Would love to see commentary on Kay Hymnowitz’s latest City Journal piece about the myth of the gender pay gap.

The Labor Department’s occupational categories can be so large that a woman could drive a truck through them. Among “physicians and surgeons,” for example, women make only 64.2 percent of what men make. Outrageous, right? Not if you consider that there are dozens of specialties in medicine: some, like cardiac surgery, require years of extra training, grueling hours, and life-and-death procedures; others, like pediatrics, are less demanding and consequently less highly rewarded. Only 16 percent of surgeons, but a full 50 percent of pediatricians, are women.

http://www.city-journal.org/2011/21_3_gender-gap.html

spearhafoc
spearhafoc
9 years ago

Lou, one of our resident MRAs, NWOslave, does state that women have never been oppressed.

Lou
Lou
9 years ago

Holly

Men were oppressed as men too, the most horrific examples of oppression were reserved for men.

And the key point is that the days when you hats can go around waving fabricated history and and stats. on gendered abuse as if they were truth are over.

captainbathrobe
9 years ago

Well, Lou, we’ve had a whole lotta nobody around here making that very argument.

filetofswedishfish
9 years ago

Lou, men were oppressed for being in a different class (probably lower class, non landowning, or being certain nationality). Not because they had penises. Whereas, doctors used to think having a uterus caused one to have hysteria/not be smart enough to deal with daily life. Including not being able to fully grasp the concept and consequences of voting.

captainbathrobe
9 years ago

I’ve been called many things, but never a “hat.”

Sir, I’m going to have to ask you to step outside.

captainbathrobe
9 years ago

Also, the phrase “not the Oppression Olympics” comes to mind.

spearhafoc
spearhafoc
9 years ago

Yeah, I have lots of hats, but clearly, I myself am not a hat.

filetofswedishfish
9 years ago

If I perch atop someone’s head, then am I a hat? Or is this person just participating in rectal millinery?

Theresa (@BooBooMatrix)

Hey you guys, sorry I didn’t know about Andrea, and I was researching her a couple weeks ago, and didn’t even NOTICE that. I feel really strange about that. I don’t know how I missed it. Thanks for letting me know, sorry. Also, that means speedlines made a great point. For those making this non argument, no more complaints about Andrea.

captainbathrobe
9 years ago

Perhaps he has a neurological disorder– the Man Who Mistook Feminists for Hats? Quick, someone alert Oliver Sacks!

spearhafoc
spearhafoc
9 years ago

If I were a hat, I’d be a bowler.

Lou
Lou
9 years ago

Filletofswedishfish

The years between universal male and universal female suffrage are so few that I don’t think suffrage is a valid issue at all. It just sounds good as a feminist talking point because they leave out the fact that female suffrage came a blink of an eye after male causing the naive to believe that there was some long history of men having universal suffrage while women didn’t. Suffrage is a b/s argument.

And there are plenty of examples of females being exempt for certain oppressions because of their gender.

Doctors thought the uterus caused hysteria then, histrionic personality disorder is diagnosed most often in females today – see the connection? … the doctors weren’t oppressing women, they just weren’t diagnosing us as well as they can today…bit of perspective makes all the difference you see.

filetofswedishfish
9 years ago

Dude, don’t even start condescending here. I know history, too, and I promise you that feminism is not a veil over my eyes, preventing me from seeing the truth, here. I’m not saying things didn’t suck for men, i’m just saying it sucked for everyone, and it sucked in different ways, depending on your parts. And that the suckage for people with female parts goes on to today, and many people discount it. Including you.

Also, you can think it’s an invalid issue as much as you want. We can also call your argument bullshit. Movers and shakers around the time of the women’s suffrage movement in the US thought voting would make women less feminine. Did they ever say equivalent things about not affording the right to vote to men who didn’t own land/[insert justification of witholding of rights here]

filetofswedishfish
9 years ago

“Doctors thought the uterus caused hysteria then, histrionic personality disorder is diagnosed most often in females today – see the connection? … the doctors weren’t oppressing women, they just weren’t diagnosing us as well as they can today…bit of perspective makes all the difference you see.”

I can’t even begin to unpack all the BS here, either. They were pathologizing *having female organs*. That’s not a “whoops, science needed advancing, sorry lulz”. That was “Whoops, society was really fucked up and needed to move forward so science could, too”. Perspective doesn’t enter into it, lamb.

captainbathrobe
9 years ago

Lou, Histrionic Personality Disorder bears almost no resemblance to hysteria as it was defined in the 19th century. Many of the “hysterics” Freud treated were in fact suffering from Conversion Disorder, wherein psychological conflicts are manifested through physical symptoms. HPD, on the other hand, is characterized by attention-seeking behavior and shallow affect, among other things.

Lou
Lou
9 years ago

Filetofswedishfish

I don’t discount “suckage” for people with vaginas today, in the west women are doing better by most of not all markers of well-being while men dominate those of hardship, that’s why I don’t take feminists or feminism seriously when they try to pretend suffrage is relevant and that western women are being disproportionately oppressed. Also, I’m reasonable well versed in the feminist depiction of abuse (the feminist version is a functioning and aggressively policed abuse culture that protects certain abusers and minimizes certain victims) and its large deviation from the reality of abuse, a non gendered problem that women contribute to least as much as men do – as depicted by the bulk of the reliable research.

When it comes to history and information on abuse, feminists are a disadvantaged group and the days of hoodwinking naive feminists and society with its fraudulent advocacy research, pseudo-history and victim playing are over.

Sharculese
9 years ago

I don’t discount “suckage” for people with vaginas today, in the west women are doing better by most of not all markers of well-being while men dominate those of hardship, that’s why I don’t take feminists or feminism seriously when they try to pretend suffrage is relevant and that western women are being disproportionately oppressed. Also, I’m reasonable well versed in the feminist depiction of abuse (the feminist version is a functioning and aggressively policed abuse culture that protects certain abusers and minimizes certain victims) and its large deviation from the reality of abuse, a non gendered problem that women contribute to least as much as men do – as depicted by the bulk of the reliable research.

When it comes to history and information on abuse, feminists are a disadvantaged group and the days of hoodwinking naive feminists and society with its fraudulent advocacy research, pseudo-history and victim playing are over.

so you’re response is ‘nuh-uh you’re wrong and i don’t believe you?’ pardon me if i’m not convinced. this is clusterfuck of of misdirection. you’re doing a bang up job of echoing the language of the social scientists without putting a lot of thought into how language is used (the ‘i know you are but what am i’ school of argumentation) but seriously, you can’t even stay consistent within your own rant. are feminists sinister deceivers or naive do-gooders. pick a grievance and stick to it, brah.

Lou
Lou
9 years ago

Sarclulese.

Its not a matter of beliefs for me, its a matter of measuring the facts against the feminist position and finding the feminist position lacking and more a set of beliefs than a reflection of reality.

Captian Bathrobe – I see, conversion disorder. I stand corrected.

captainbathrobe
9 years ago

Lou,

Not at all. A little perspective makes all the difference, you see.

katz
9 years ago

So…Lou, you think you have absolutely no perception bias and that you alone are the impartial arbiter of all facts? Because your other option is to admit that there might be cases where feminists are right and you’re wrong.

Lou
Lou
9 years ago

Histrionic personality disorder shares a divergent history with conversion disorder and somatization disorder. Historically, they are linked to the ancient notion of hysteria, or “wandering womb.”[16](Note, however, that according to the Online Etymology Dictionary, the word “histrionic” derives not from the Greek hystera, but from the Latin histrionicus, “pertaining to an actor.”) Ancient Greeks thought that excessive emotionality in women was caused by a displaced uterus and sexual discontent.

WIKI

At one point, HPD was being diagnosed as “wandering womb”.

katz
9 years ago

The Argument So Far

LOU: Women were never oppressed!

EVERYONE: Women couldn’t vote.

LOU: Some men couldn’t vote either!

HOLLY: But women couldn’t vote specifically because they were women. Men couldn’t vote for other reasons.

LOU: Some men couldn’t vote either!

FOSF: Women couldn’t vote because men thought their uteruses made them crazy.

LOU: But that’s true!

Nobby
9 years ago

“In DSM-III, the term hysterical personality changed to histrionic personality disorder to emphasize the histrionic (derived from the Latin word histrio, or actor) behavior pattern and to reduce the confusion caused by the historical links of hysteria to conversion symptoms.

THE REST OF THE WIKI

emphasis mine.

Nobby
9 years ago

Also, as it says right in your quote, hysteria is Wandering Womb, not HPD.

Lou
Lou
9 years ago

Kats

I don’t have absolutely no perception bias, obviously but I know that suffrage is irrelevant and that the fact on abuse and markers of well-being and hardship, Disprove the feminist position on abuse and that western women are being disproportionately oppressed when compared to western men.

I’m biased towards whats provable.

katz
9 years ago

Lou, that last quote just made our case for us. Women have historically been treated as though our body parts make us unable to act rationally. That’s groundless bias and prejudice. If you don’t see that, I’m not sure what we can do for you.

Andrea Vaughn
9 years ago

“Doctors thought the uterus caused hysteria then, histrionic personality disorder is diagnosed most often in females today – see the connection?”

That’s because men with the same symptoms aren’t diagnosed with histrionic personality disorder, they are diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. And then people like you get to pretend that only women have emotional problems.

Lou
Lou
9 years ago

See these are the sort of distortions of reality and lies that make feminism unpopular.

“Women couldn’t vote because men thought their uteruses made them crazy.”

Men in general didn’t control who had the vote, men fought the establishment to get the vote and many men supported women getting the vote, which happened a short time afterwards.

Lou
Lou
9 years ago

“That’s because men with the same symptoms aren’t diagnosed with histrionic personality disorder, they are diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. And then people like you get to pretend that only women have emotional problems.”

No, I don’t think the psychiatric profession is diagnosing people based on gender.

katz
9 years ago

I don’t have absolutely no perception bias, obviously but I know that suffrage is irrelevant and that the fact on abuse and markers of well-being and hardship, Disprove the feminist position on abuse and that western women are being disproportionately oppressed when compared to western men.

There are words in this sentence, but I can discern no meaning. Let’s see…we’ve got a misplaced adverb, an unnecessary comma followed by a capital letter, and a clause with an ambiguous antecedent.

Anyone else want to help me out?

Sharculese
9 years ago

Lou, for someone who is so obsessed with facts you seem awfully skilled at twisting them to support whatever it is you want to. It’s almost as if you only see them as a tool to reinforce your preconceived biases or something…

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