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antifeminism evil women misogyny MRA reddit woman's suffrage

I refuse to see dead people

We gave them the vote and they STILL won't shut up about it!

Apparently, all that time I spent studying history in college and grad school was a complete waste of time. Because once people die, nothing about their lives or the events that happened during their lives matters. At least according to merlin34 in Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit, who recently set forth this cogent argument as to  “Why feminists should SHUT THE $^%# UP about women’s suffrage in US/UK.

The 19th Amendment of the US Constitution was ratified in 1920, before that year’s election. At the time, the voting age was 21. Any woman who was denied the right to vote would have had to have been born before Election Day of 1898. Today, she would be 113+ years old. That means dead.

In the UK, it was in 1928 that women were granted equal voting rights to men, again at the age of 21 (although women over 30 were given the vote 10 years earlier). Any woman denied the right to vote based on sex in the UK would be over 105 years old now. There’s still probably some around, but not a lot, and not for much longer, and they weren’t denied the right to vote for long.

What does this have to do with anything? It means that feminists using the “women weren’t allowed to vote, wah” or “black men got the vote before women of any color” canards should SHUT UP, because the list of those actually denied the right to vote based on sex is rapidly diminishing. In another ten years, none will remain.

Naturally, the comments are also a delight. OThompson says:

You can also tell them that Suffragettes were often domestic terrorists.

AntiFeministMedia adds:

It isnt just feminists though is it, its any woman you get into an argument with.

If its not ‘women wernt allowed to vote’, its ‘rapists get off scott-free’. They ignore the context. When did universal sufferage for men go ahead in the UK? 1918?

Most women are ignorant of most of these issues, but they are happy to just parrot all this stuff because that makes them victims, and so they get privileges they arent really entitled to.

They dont care wether what they are saying is out of date, or that most men didnt recieve the vote untill very recently either, they only care that the female gravy train of victimhood keeps rolling on.

Is the Female Gravy Train of Victimhood anything like Soul Train? Because that would be awesome.

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redlocker
9 years ago

“but yeah, transphobic personal comments do get ppl here angry, now you know and you can keep doing it to get your “rise” xD”

Yeah, at this point Ion is like a bad comedy sketch that stumbles onto one “joke” and just runs it onto the ground.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@redlocker:

We are well beyond nuance here.

shaenon
9 years ago

Shaenon and Molly – thanks, I’ll check out your blogs.

Sure, I don’t mind taking one for the team. However, I don’t have photos of myself on my blogs, as they are about either comics or my awesome tiki collection.

Now post a picture of yourself already.

Geez, even MRAL posted a picture of his eye the one time (and it was perfectly nice). Don’t chicken out on me. I’m writing fanfic here.

redlocker
9 years ago

@kirbywarp:

Yeah, that’s not the right word. More like “common sense” or “basic human empathy”.

“And I don’t want to hear from no fem-in-ists

You bitches are lying, and making me pissed!” 😀

shaenon
9 years ago

I’ve found the best response to insults about one’s personal appearance is something James Kochalka said when a guy called him bald: “Are you implying that I look bad? Because I look awesome.”

Try it. It works great.

redlocker
9 years ago

@shaenon: Hahahaha, that’s great.

I can imagine the insult-thrower to be all, “My god, you’re so self-centered! How dare you counter my expert knowledge on beauty! HOW DAAAAARE YOOOOOOOU!” before exploding.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Ion, I was going to keep ignoring the banal shit you pull (mostly because it’s 1: predictable… it’s not that MRAs do it, but that the lesser sort of trolls do), and 2: because I don’t really see much point to feeding your ego.

But, mostly because you can’t even be an honest troll. You keep saying your in it for the lulz, but then when people point out that you are, at best, a passively-aggressive person who refuses to engage in honest argument you get offended.

See above, in this thread where you asked for examples of extant sexism/oppression and then then immediately said every example wasn’t “really” sexism/oppression (right up to saying Holly was failing to share relevant details, so as to turn reasonable behavior into sexist).

All things considered, Marc was more honest than you.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Oooh, BURN.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Yeah, there’s a huge difference between saying:

“Your ideas and/or behavior are silly, and I mock you for it;” and,

“Ha ha! You’re a fatty fatty fat fat and no one will ever love you. Oh, and you’re also too short and have a wonky eye” for example.

One calls out behavior, the other calls out the intrinsic characteristics of a person (not to mention being irrelevant to the person being right or wrong). The former is fair game in such a forum and the latter is just childish.

And attacking Ami for her appearance and/or voice? Major dick move.

katz
9 years ago

David, I think Ion is overdue for a permanent ban. He’s admitted that he’s just intentionally trolling and being a dick, and he’s being really nasty to people. He contributes nothing and I would not be even slightly sad if he never came back.

katz
9 years ago

“Die in a fire, haters of glam rock!”

Rutee
Rutee
9 years ago

So he’s a transphobe, but not enough of one to try facing up to people who aren’t? How pathetic, to not just be a hateful, tiny-minded bigot, but a failure of one, too scared that people will return the favor to your jackassery? You should just go, it’s not going to get better for you.

redlocker
9 years ago

“Ha ha! You don’t think the movie Heat was way too long. I bet you thought Solaris was paced like an action thriller, huh???”

Hey, now, at least Solaris had good visuals.

…Wait, are we talking about the Andrei Tartavosky original, or the Soderberg one? I was unimpressed by the former, but I heard that the latter sucked.

Sharculese
9 years ago

the original is stunning, you just have to be in the right mood to pay strict attention to every molasses slow minute. despite being a response to 2001, i always thought of it more as the russian equivalent to apocalypse now (no disrespect intended, apocalypse is one of my three favorite movies, and the other two are equally slow- bladerunner and the long goodbye)

the remake… well, you just have to be a masochist

Sharculese
9 years ago

@david- i love george clooney, but i feel like he just didnt try in that movie. and im a huge dylan thomas fan, so i was super pissed off about the way they shoehorned him in.

also, i just dont like soderberg, which probably contributed

redlocker
9 years ago

“I liked Tarkovsky’s Stalker much better, though. Also slow, but if you’re willing to give it time, it’s great.”

Oh, yes, that one is good. Possibly the best movie Tarkovsky made.

redlocker
9 years ago

@sharculese: Ah, I see. I’ll probably still see the remake, though.

“also, i just dont like soderberg, which probably contributed”

How many Soderberg movies did you see? I’ve only seen “The Girlfriend Experience” (which I liked) and “Bubble” (which I didn’t like at all, couldn’t even finish).

What gets me is how much he alternates between self-funded “indie” projects and Hollywood projects, and he’s still pumping out movies, despite stating how weary he is of movies in general.

Sharculese
9 years ago

about half a dozen i guess. i don’t totally hate him, and i did really like the informant but as a general rule i find his movies kind of bloated and just not that interesting

What gets me is how much he alternates between self-funded “indie” projects and Hollywood projects, and he’s still pumping out movies, despite stating how weary he is of movies in general.

well, alternating between hollywood blockbusters and more personal projects has definitely been a successful strategy for some directors (richard linklater, christopher nolan) but if its just wearing him out on moviemaking, ya that’s probably something to re-evaluate. i mean if he had cashed in on it, he probably could have done at least ten years of indie projects just on the strength of traffic, but if he didn’t plan that out right, welp…

ithiliana
9 years ago

One thing I like to teach my students how to do in courses where they have to write arguments, is to test the applicability of their arguments in multiple situations–for example, when my white students fall into the “slavery happened in the past, why are THEY so upset about it, THEY should get over it, THEY were never slaves” I point to all the angst by SOME white southerners about “the War of Northern Aggression” and all the “we are so horribly wounded by being conquered by evil Yankees” — why don’t the white students tell the Southern whites mourning the loss of that war to get over it, it’s in the past. (Those same groups are putting on all the re-enactments in honor of whatever year it’s been, and complaining about lack of African Americans attending them!!!)

So, in that spirit, it seems like if these dudez support the argument that what happened in the past doesn’t matter, then that immediately makes all the claims of we “hunted the mammoth you you girlz” out of bounds, not to mention all the claims about men dying for years of oppression in the past (I think it’s NWO who keeps going there), ditto–they don’t count because they’re in the past. And as people have continually pointed out, who invented what in the past, doesn’t matter! So all their claims to male superiority based on a DEAD history, well, fffffsst!

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Oh I wanted to say to everybody btw thank you for “sticking up” for me and for caring 🙂 This isn’t new though xD I mean I’ve gotten this stuff from DirtyWhiteBoi and her group, and the whole “no matter what we’ll find some way to insult your appearance or voice for being trans” xD The “you’ll never pass because of” and etc In fact I’ve had transphobes assume when I say I’m trans that I’m cis and an FtM and say “you’ll NEVER pass for male!” xD

As I said before, when anti-trans ppl know you’re trans, they’ll always tell you you can’t pass to put you down, and try to attack what they think your insecurities are xD In Ion’s case, he knows my insecurity cuz I say it in my videos. He brought up the voice thing out of nowhere cuz it’s the thing he can attack about his presumption that I dun pass, even tho voice had nothing to do w/ what ppl were talking about, but if you can’t attack a trans person’s body, you attack their voice, or the way they walk, or how assertive or not assertive they are xD I mean you see what you want to see. Like I’ve seen ppl claim that liking shopping means trans women are playing at being women, and I’ve seen ppl say that liking sports means trans women are “actually” men, or etc… If ppl know you’re trans, they’ll always find something xD

My relationship w/ my voice is complicated b/c I hate the way it sounds on recording, and I do worry it will out me some day and I’ll be in danger : But so far it never has, not even on dates, or multiple dates, or any other situation where I spend a prolonged period of time w/ a person :3 And honestly, I think my voice sounds cute in my head, but when it comes out on recording is when I hate it xD But I do like my voice, at least I surprise myself when some ppl tell me to get voice training, I’m like “but this is my voice”, and I mean, the only thing I care about is if I pass, and that’s for safety reasons and fear of discrimination : And since I DO pass almost all of the time, well it’s my life :3

Also *blush* at everybody thinking I’m attractive :3 Ppl alrdy know my body issues but I want to give huge hugs to everybody *hug hug hug* :]

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Oh right I forgot to add, that I think it also shows that the whole “game” is exactly what I was comparing it to w/ the “show me a trans person that can pass!” Alrdy we’ve had ppl discounted cuz of being trans and cuz of “what have they ever rly done?” And if it keeps up, it’s like a form of “no real scotsman” xD And all it’d do is make ppl feel like a piece of meat to be judged, and make others feel like it matters what they look like, and it’s irrelevant xD

As I said, it’s like “prove to me there’s a passing trans woman”… there are many NON passing trans women too xD Playing the game if you pass (which you can’t win neways cuz if somebody knows you’re trans theyll always find SOMETHING they claim they can tell w/ xD ) just makes it seem like that “non-passing” trans women are not important, or less important, and not “passing” is something to look down on : And it’s subjective, b/c IRL ppl pass all the time b/c there’s all sorts of types of women and men out there. But in a vacuum on the internet, it becomes a game of “what SHOULD a woman look like/sound like?” w/ one person being the judge of that, and it’s subjective. (in fact we just had an example of that xD )

This is the same thing. xD And it’s meaningless to play into it.

Also this a great example of intersectionality! 😀

Rutee
Rutee
9 years ago

Mmhm, these games are all designed to not be winnable. Playing them is wasting your time and putting your self esteem on the line. It’s really hard to break the habit, but there ya go.

Honestly, making people substantiate their claims of whatever is far more useful than pretending it’s on you to show that it’s not true. This is generally true, and more relevantly, accurate, with the kinds of faux intellectual trolls that tend to attack feminist spaces, as it places the burden of proof on the correct party (Whoever makes a truth claim is called upon to establish it), but with the kind of hateful little bigotry that Ion does… no. Stereotypes aren’t proof.

Tru
Tru
9 years ago

Female Gravy Train of Victimhood…New T-shirt!

Pecunium
9 years ago

I liked Heat. I have to say that the escape from the bank is probably the best example of “fire and movement” in an urban setting I can think of.

There are some portions of FMJ, and Saving Private Ryan which are pretty good, but those are force on force, and with generally equal firepower (FMJ does a superb job of showing what good defense can cost an attacker). The dichotomy of force, and the ways in which concerted action will disrupt a group of individuals who happen to be armed and shooting at you is really well done.

And the lesson is hard to spot, if you don’t know what you are looking at. The Northridge Bank Robbery was a case of a couple of guys thinking what Heat shows is that “machine guns” beat pistols, IMO, and the things is, they don’t. What beats pistols is teamwork, training, and a plan.

But I digress (and I really ought to get a copy of the original Solaris, as well as one of “Rublyev”).

For an interesting, more modern (ca 1992) Russian Film I’d commend, “Adam’s Rib” which is about three generations of Russian women (related, child, mother, grandmother) dealing with modern Russia, and the problems of both it, and being female in it).

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