On the ironically named Happy Bachelors forum, the regular poster who calls himself khankrumthebulgar – and whose real name is Randall Joseph Shake — has been complaining about those of us who’ve pointed out that much MRA and MGTOW rhetoric sounds all too similar to the rhetoric of Norwegian terrorist murderer Anders Breivik. In response to Hugo Schwyzer’s post on the topic at the Good Men Project, he wrote:
This smacks to me of extreme desperation. As they are trying to draw us into a response. They should hear Crickets chirping. … they are in need of traffic, controversy some off the wall unhinged response. When they receive none, it simply means we will not waste the oxygen to answer these absurd and insane accusations. No evidence exists that the MRA or MRM is in any way connected to the Norwegian gunman. IF we were there would be dozens of dead Feminists by now. There is none, hence this is a weak and pathetic attempt to incite violence and is irresponsible on their part. …
If such violence were to happen. After such outrageous accusations, it is Hugo Schwyzer and the Good Menz Project who is financially liable for stoking and promoting extremism in the hopes of generating a violent response. The blood will be on their hands not ours.
You will notice that this argument is identical to that of Angry Harry: if an extremist commits an act of terrorism or violence, don’t blame him or his extremist ideology; blame the people who pissed him off. Taken to its logical extreme, this specious argument would mean blaming the Jews for the Holocaust; after all, they’re the ones who got Hitler so worked up in the first place.
It seems to me that if you don’t want people to associate you with terrorists, you should probably stop talking like terrorists, referring casually to “dozens of dead feminists” and trying to blame the enemy in advance for any violence that comes from your side.
Also, you should probably stop making comments like the following, which were posted in response to Amanda Marcotte’s recent post on Misogyny and Terrorism. The first one, from spocksdisciple, a board moderator, fantasized about a violent backlash that would put women in general and feminists in particular in their supposed place:
[T]he backlash against feminism and it’s misandry will be both awe inspiring and terrifying at the same time.
Modern radical feminism is doomed, any woman sprouting these kinds of statements after the backlash won’t last very long, people and especially men are growing angrier everyday and all these whining losers in the feminist movement is doing to kicking a sleeping bear even harder.
Feminism is so done that women will be lucky if any man bothers to even look at them other then as a piece of meat, the days of the 19th century are going to come back where women either know their place or they’ll suffer the consequences of their actions and arrogance, big daddy gov’t isn’t going to be around to protect the rights of women to act like bitches.
And you probably shouldn’t talk about burning down buildings with people inside them, as khankrumthebulgar (that is, Randall Joseph Shake) does in this comment:
Feminists will be treated like the French Nobility was during the French Revolution. There will be a payback to these Evil Bitches. … As to the Good Mangina Project, they are our enemies. Burn the building to the ground with them in it.
Is he literally talking about burning down a building, or is he speaking metaphorically? In the wake of a tragedy that involved a man literally gunning down the children of his leftist and feminist enemies, khankrumthebulgar’s comments are indefensible either way.
Let me reiterate: these are posts from men who are angry that people have linked them in any way to the Norwegian terrorist. Are they really this lacking in self-awareness, or are they so used to talking in an environment where violent comments about feminists are so common and accepted that they don’t even realize the irony?
I don’t know, and I don’t care. I just wish that those in the MRA and MGTOW movements who are bothered by this kind of talk – and I know there are some who are – would actually step up and declare this sort of shit out of bounds. I’m not holding my breath.
Note: The Happy Bachelors forum is members-only, so the links to the forum won’t work if you’re not a member. Here are screen shots of all the forum comments mentioned in this post, in order. Click to see the full-sized image. I edited several of the comments, but indicated all removed material with ellipses. As you will see the edits did not change the meaning of what was said.
khankrumthebulgar gives his real name
khankrumthebulgar on Hugo Schwyzer (just the portion of the comment that is from him; the rest quotes Schwyzer’s post).
spocksdisciple comment
khankrumthebulgar’s “burn the building” comment
Samuel, I can’t say I completely agree with this article: http://www.slate.com/id/2281146/ – I think it’s an absurd bit of over-dramatic pedantry – but I must say that reading your posts would be much easier if you were to use a space or two after periods. Doesn’t matter how many, but at least one would be nice. Or do you GYOW in terms of typography as well?
And everything Holly said, too.
Well, maybe I’m missing something, but I believe that in order to access this happy and harmonious section of HB, I need to be a registered member. The only page that I seem to be able to view is the “Best of”, which is eight pages of mostly complaining about/ranting about/discussing women. And…uh…I have better things to do with my time than set up an account on a forum that I’m not welcome on, just to take a look at what it is you’re talking about. So it looks like I’ll just have to take your word for it.
That doesn’t answer my question, though. You alleged that there are all these MRA/MGTOW blogs that don’t talk about women at all, it’s all about fellowship and male bonding. So…show me an MRA/MGTOW blog where there aren’t these angry/bitter articles about everything that’s wrong with women. Happy Bachelors obviously doesn’t fit the bill. If the majority its self-purported “best” articles are mostly rants about why women are so awful, and that’s the bit that even non-members are allowed to see, then there does seem to be a negative fixation on women of sorts, or some desire to give the impression of a negative fixation. After all, they so readily flaunt these anger/misery-filled articles.
I’m all for men bonding, pursuing their interests, gaining emotional fulfillment, going on retreats, going to the beach, going fishing, singing opera, riding horses, getting motorcycles, whittling, learning an instrument, eating green eggs and ham in a box, with a fox, on a train, on a plane, here, there and everywhere. I would recommend eating green eggs that are made green with the use of food coloring rather than eggs that have gone green due to natural circumstance. Just a suggestion, though.
But I think what we’re saying is, go ahead and do it. We’re not trying to stop you. I guess it just confuses some of us, because reading some of these blogs, it’s almost like some of these people should be called, “Men Threatening to Go Their Own Way”, or “Men on Their Way to Going Their Own Way.” There’s so often this tone that implies, “if women don’t shape up soon, I actually will give up and go my own way, then they’ll be sorry!”, or going on about how evil women are with a “This is why I’m going my own way!” finishing note. As if women are going to get all up in arms that some guy who never particularly cared for them anyway has decided to remove or consider removing himself from the dating pool. It doesn’t seem very cheerful, perhaps a bit spiteful. I mean, look at MarkyMark, or the aptly named Angry Harry. I understand that everyone needs to vent sometimes, but…these guys seem like they almost never have anything good to say, and what they do say tends to be complaints about women. It gives the impression that their lives are kind of depressing, full of nothing but frustration and sorrow. From what I’ve seen, a good day for MarkyMark is one in which a new Jersey Shore is airing, or when he has a conversation with a woman and she doesn’t like, call upon her flying monkey minions to pull out his hair and throw spoiled fruit at him or something.
So please, go your own way. We aren’t going to try to stop you. We’re not going to follow you around and beg you to marry us, or win our bread for us, or have babies with us, or give us half your money, or tell you not to get that Harley, or whatever.
Papr1ka I will say this.I guess as a human being I am flawed in that I have a need to respond and substantiate that the MGTOW perspective. I guess I am one of the weaker MGTOW men (lol). The majority of MGTOW men who live a life of avoiding women and believe in gender separatism, you do not hear about. These guys are not on the internet. They have gone their own way. They leave relatively unobtrusive lives.They go to work,pay taxes,have hobbies like all human beings but they have given up on women and believe in gender separatism. Some live quiet lives .Some become spiritual ( I am not saying become monks,(although some MGTOW do). These men do not are choosing to become disciplined,celibate and you can sublimate the sexual energy and it is spiritually helpful.You do not hear about these guys. I know one friend about 38, was an investent banker, handsome,successful.well rounded but for whatever reason he got hurt by women and actually joined some type of monastery.Like a male nun who renounces marriage.Think of nuns. Although I do not hear from my monk friend much, I spoke with him like 6 months ago he was at peace very content.So you do not hear about these MGTOW guys,maybe your right maybe some guys are threatening to gtow.After all the MGTOW is not monolithic like most movements. Some MGTOW men may actually date women or still want do date and may be just “threatening ” as you say.But the men who have MGTOW really you do not hear about.The lives they lead are called Ghosting like my monk friend. Someone here made fun of my typing. Well sorry, as for my typing,Perhaps I need a secretary. So I am not the best typer. Just my two cents.Bye
Lastly, my final comment I promise(your all sick of me I know). The best book to read as recommended on a quintessential MGTOW male is Iron John by Robert Bly. Also Fire in the belly by Samuel Kean.Women here please read these books.You can get them cheap paperback online. These books just deal with mens psyche written by men to men. They are well written books.Thanx
What good would reading a book do me?
I could read and read and I’d still be female.
And they say I’M hard to read xD
So wait, cis women don’t choose to be born evil… so does that mean I DID choose to be evil? o_O Or am I a traitor.. or what? xD
You’re clearly some kind of evil, Ami.
Oh! Btw, to Samuel and all the MGTOW, a brilliant writer named Cal Y. Pigia has a solution to your woes about the biological evil of women 😀
http://www.literotica.com/s/shemales-an-appreciation
http://www.literotica.com/s/shemales-an-appreciation-pt-02
http://www.literotica.com/s/shemales-an-appreciation-pt-03
>_>
<_<
This could be a rly terrible idea actually.. I might create a whole new generation of chasers -_- xD
Ami, lol I do not know who you are Ami but Lol. I am not into shemales. But seriously, when I said the MGTOW movement is not monolithic, it is true. Some men that “give up women” become celibate monks or some type of spiritual tradition,.Some go abroad to met Asian women.There is a movement called “Boycott Western Women” and a movement called “happier abroad(google it) where men go overseas to meet women that is going their own way for them. A small few( I know just a very few men) who become gay.Ami, it is kinda weird and odd I know me saying it. But a small few radical feminists become lesbian. Some mgtow men find fellowship in the gay community as far as gay bars,gay retreats.These guys are heterosexual mgtow but have gay men as friends and in gay bars and gay places there are no women to deal with.Finally there is some MGTOW that are on a “marriage strike”(google it). The have sworn off the institution of marriage that is going their own way.Yes I know you females on this board do not care if we go our own way anyway but it will ina few years be a crisis. If even a chunk a small chunk 10% 20% of men have removed themselves out of the gene pool there will be less men to choose from. Yes there may be still more men available now than women in the dating scene perhaps, but it is equaling out fom even a few years ago. Even a minority chunk of men have removed themselves from marriage,dating, dealings with women means less available men and more competition amongst women who decide to still want men.Finally less marriages less grandchildren this could be a good think there is way way too many people in our world anyway(even in the West like the USA is overpopulated). But still it will have an impact. In conclusion, if you some of you women claimto read mens blogs like spearhead reddit -post on these blogs what you responded to me in this post. MGTOW is not monolithic. Some sites do not welcome women, some do. I admit some of you have valid points, but on sites like the spearhead I rarely hear women post.However, on feminist sites that allow men to post many men post.We men matter too. With that written, I’m outa here.Peace y’all.
P.S> I do not know you Ami, I didn’t read all your shemale links but I will peruse them. It is just I am not into she males. No offense.Celibacy for this boy, not shemales Ami lol.Take care
10 or 20 percent?
Dude, there’s like 10 or 20 of you guys total.
That’s okay, baby, I don’t think she was dying for your love.
…I don’t think anyone’s dying for your love.
…and thus the key flaw in your scheme.
‘shemale’ is not the correct term. The correct term is trans women, you cissexist fuck. You want sympathy while being amazingly hateful? You’re an idiot.
“here is a movement called “Boycott Western Women” and a movement called “happier abroad(google it) where men go overseas to meet women that is going their own way for them. ”
I’m aware of your group’s intersection of racism and sexism. I think we all are, here.
“Yes I know you females on this board do not care if we go our own way anyway but it will ina few years be a crisis.”
In your dreams, perhaps. I’m not going to say in my nightmares; Any moron who would participate in such a strike is too fucking stupid to be worth dating, personally.
“Yes there may be still more men available now than women in the dating scene perhaps, but it is equaling out fom even a few years ago.”
Unevidenced bullshit is unevidenced.
“I admit some of you have valid points, but on sites like the spearhead I rarely hear women post.”
That would be because the number of women who are complete misogynists is very low. Is the fact that black people don’t generally post on stormfront evidence that they have valid points?
xD
I think he missed the point of my post xD And I think the trans comm is desperately hoping he stays w/ the stance he has now xD
The reason women don’t post on the Spearhead is that even when MRA women post, they get downvoted and yelled at to leave (at least from my exp reading there xD )
The marriage strike is such a joke. Seriously, when can we start seeing its effects? ‘Cause I’m spending a small fortune every year on attending weddings, planning showers, throwing engagement parties, and the like. Hell, I don’t advertise and I end up shooting a handful of weddings a year, strictly on word-of-mouth.
The idea that MGTOW is in some way affecting the “dating scene” is even more ridiculous. A handful of guys on the internet claim that they want social gender separation and actually think the idea is catching on?
Please.
Go outside. Look around. The rest of the world had not gotten the memo.
When I read about men going their own way, I always think of the Fleetwood Mac song “Go your own way”. Perhaps all five men in the movement could make it their theme song.
I think MGTOW consists of
– riding a motorbike (cause at the most you can only carry 1 passenger), but then these guys usually ride with other men so they are not actually going their own way?
– Sitting alone at a computer posting to MRA sites
– going on sex holidays to Thailand?
Yes I know you females on this board do not care if we go our own way anyway but it will ina few years be a crisis. If even a chunk a small chunk 10% 20% of men have removed themselves out of the gene pool there will be less men to choose from.
Naw, I’mma just move to China or India where they are having an actual crisis because they have a skewed sex ratio. And then roll around in a pile of men. Or something.
Actually I’ll probably just keep dating the men near me, ’cause that other plan would be a hell of a commute. And even if 100% of MRAs went their own way it wouldn’t affect me because I wouldn’t date any of you anyways; I like my men like I like my coffee (not full of douche.) In fact it would be awesome, because it would clear up some space for men who actually like women and weed out the guys who don’t. Timesaver! Total win-win for this “female.” 😀
Aha!
Samuel has discovered the true cause of the great depression of the 1930’s! Remember the ‘lost generation’ of the first world war? Look at the war memorials in small towns – they sometimes list more than 10% of the local single men. Listen to the stories your grandparents tell you, quite a few of those who came back didn’t marry. So, according to Samuel, a lack of marriageable men leads to disaster, hence the depression!
The man is a unique genius 🙂
Listen everyone I will say this. My comments seem to have created controversy and offended some women here, This was not my original intention.I am not looking for female sympathy. All I am saying is that some men are just angry these days. Some men are choosing to stay single,stay solo.See, I truly believe today at least in the USA, that Women do not NEED men.As a result of feminism, There are now more women enrolled in colleges than men. Girls generally perform better than girls in school these days.A hardworking women can do whatever a man can do, and be economically independent and support herself/Moreover, even to get a child a woman can now have a baby in a lab/Technology has created his.Women do not even need to get married anymore or even be in a relationship with a man anymore.Women can now be self supporting and independent and have a child without getting married. Women do not need Men. It probably is a good thing for you feministst. All I am stating , is many men were raised that they NEED a woman to take care of the cook clean, nurture,domesticate that men are some stupid fools fat on the couch watching TV as depicted on some sitcoms.In reality, mgtow men are discovering men can cook .cook, clean ,nurture themselves. We are not fools we do NOT NEED WOMEN.Men can take care of themselves. Lastly, many men are learning with discipline, the sex drive can be controlled.Through meditation,spirituality, transferring sexual energy to hobbies like art and music. When sexual energy is controlled by men in some way a man becomes empowered and more mature and wise as opposed to some fool sexual pig with only one thing on our mind, sex,How untrue.Many men are choosing celibacy, and are learning to have control over or sex drive,
Samuel: Well, it’s refreshing that some men are coming to accept the fact that they are not getting a butler, nanny, cook and fuck-slave. With time, I hope they will realize they are not entitled to a servant, either.
Dude, seriously, who cares?
There have always been men and women who choose not to have romantic entanglements. Big whoop. I son’t think you’re seeking sympathy; I think you’re seeking praise. And nobody cares. Go. Go your own way. Why all this talking, and explaining, and justifying, and allusions to who thinks you can’t cook, or control your sex drive? Nobody is offended that you don’t want to be involved with women.
Congratulations! You’ve gone your own way. So go.
Via con Dios!
@Amused
“Well, it’s refreshing that some men are coming to accept the fact that they are not getting a butler, nanny, cook and fuck-slave. With time, I hope they will realize they are not entitled to a servant, either.”
I hope its equally refreshing that women can no longer expect to get an ATM, repairman, gardner, plumber, securityman, emotional supportline, leadership, dildo, friend, lover.
When ya give nothing, don’t expect anything in return. Kinda like an acquaintance who fucks ya is what you’ll get in return for giving nothing. Enjoy!
Samuel: I am happy for men who are able to go their own way and actually leave behind the emotional baggage that they have developed with regard to feminism/women/society/whargarble. I just feel as if the MGTOW bloggers are being a bit cognitively dishonest in claiming that they have gone their own way, or are going their own way, but then continue to have a seemingly unhealthy level of anger, resentment, fixation on or toward women. Particularly when the male blogger in question seems to devote his blog’s near-entire focus on such things. It can lead one to think, ‘If you claim to be moving on from having anything to do with women then…go, already and be content’.
I can sort of agree with you, when you said that men are or were often raised to be a little helpless in the domestic area. I don’t really see it so much now, most of the guys I know or am acquainted with can take care of themselves alright, but I have seen some for whom going from living with their parent(s) to living on their own was more difficult of a transition than it had to be. I don’t think that children, regardless of gender, should be raised completely ignorant of how to cook, clean, and complete simple household tasks. Unfortunately, I think we missed an opportunity back in the 60’s when more feminist mindsets were being adopted. We were ushering girls out of home ec classes, when really we should have brought boys in to join them and send a message, that cooking, cleaning, and being domestic are not gender-oriented tasks. I think Anthony Bourdain said something to that effect in one of his books as well.