On the ironically named Happy Bachelors forum, the regular poster who calls himself khankrumthebulgar – and whose real name is Randall Joseph Shake — has been complaining about those of us who’ve pointed out that much MRA and MGTOW rhetoric sounds all too similar to the rhetoric of Norwegian terrorist murderer Anders Breivik. In response to Hugo Schwyzer’s post on the topic at the Good Men Project, he wrote:
This smacks to me of extreme desperation. As they are trying to draw us into a response. They should hear Crickets chirping. … they are in need of traffic, controversy some off the wall unhinged response. When they receive none, it simply means we will not waste the oxygen to answer these absurd and insane accusations. No evidence exists that the MRA or MRM is in any way connected to the Norwegian gunman. IF we were there would be dozens of dead Feminists by now. There is none, hence this is a weak and pathetic attempt to incite violence and is irresponsible on their part. …
If such violence were to happen. After such outrageous accusations, it is Hugo Schwyzer and the Good Menz Project who is financially liable for stoking and promoting extremism in the hopes of generating a violent response. The blood will be on their hands not ours.
You will notice that this argument is identical to that of Angry Harry: if an extremist commits an act of terrorism or violence, don’t blame him or his extremist ideology; blame the people who pissed him off. Taken to its logical extreme, this specious argument would mean blaming the Jews for the Holocaust; after all, they’re the ones who got Hitler so worked up in the first place.
It seems to me that if you don’t want people to associate you with terrorists, you should probably stop talking like terrorists, referring casually to “dozens of dead feminists” and trying to blame the enemy in advance for any violence that comes from your side.
Also, you should probably stop making comments like the following, which were posted in response to Amanda Marcotte’s recent post on Misogyny and Terrorism. The first one, from spocksdisciple, a board moderator, fantasized about a violent backlash that would put women in general and feminists in particular in their supposed place:
[T]he backlash against feminism and it’s misandry will be both awe inspiring and terrifying at the same time.
Modern radical feminism is doomed, any woman sprouting these kinds of statements after the backlash won’t last very long, people and especially men are growing angrier everyday and all these whining losers in the feminist movement is doing to kicking a sleeping bear even harder.
Feminism is so done that women will be lucky if any man bothers to even look at them other then as a piece of meat, the days of the 19th century are going to come back where women either know their place or they’ll suffer the consequences of their actions and arrogance, big daddy gov’t isn’t going to be around to protect the rights of women to act like bitches.
And you probably shouldn’t talk about burning down buildings with people inside them, as khankrumthebulgar (that is, Randall Joseph Shake) does in this comment:
Feminists will be treated like the French Nobility was during the French Revolution. There will be a payback to these Evil Bitches. … As to the Good Mangina Project, they are our enemies. Burn the building to the ground with them in it.
Is he literally talking about burning down a building, or is he speaking metaphorically? In the wake of a tragedy that involved a man literally gunning down the children of his leftist and feminist enemies, khankrumthebulgar’s comments are indefensible either way.
Let me reiterate: these are posts from men who are angry that people have linked them in any way to the Norwegian terrorist. Are they really this lacking in self-awareness, or are they so used to talking in an environment where violent comments about feminists are so common and accepted that they don’t even realize the irony?
I don’t know, and I don’t care. I just wish that those in the MRA and MGTOW movements who are bothered by this kind of talk – and I know there are some who are – would actually step up and declare this sort of shit out of bounds. I’m not holding my breath.
Note: The Happy Bachelors forum is members-only, so the links to the forum won’t work if you’re not a member. Here are screen shots of all the forum comments mentioned in this post, in order. Click to see the full-sized image. I edited several of the comments, but indicated all removed material with ellipses. As you will see the edits did not change the meaning of what was said.
khankrumthebulgar gives his real name
khankrumthebulgar on Hugo Schwyzer (just the portion of the comment that is from him; the rest quotes Schwyzer’s post).
spocksdisciple comment
khankrumthebulgar’s “burn the building” comment
Oh, and Holly?
I specifically noted that Glenn Sacks disclaimed any ties to Angry Harry. I would think that would make my disapproval of Angry Harry clear. Still, he’s a freaking blogger, not a public speaker, though unlike THESE guys he is not on a private blog but is very public about his views. I share some of them of course, I esp. like how he compares human groups and organizations to organisms, but I don’t share his opinion on Breivik. Heck, occasionally Amanda Marcotte says the “sky is blue” and I agree with that.I trust that not totally dismissing everything AH has ever said doesn’t make me a fanboy.
Kendra:
Then when a public spokeswoman does something for feminism I will hold all of feminism accountable for it. You don’t get to selectively play “that’s not MY feminism”. Right now all of feminism is responsible for Amanda Marcotte’s prominence.
Whatever, Clarence.
I can’t win this game. I don’t want to play today.
Although I do think this sentence of yours is pretty fucking funny: “I specifically noted that Glenn Sacks disclaimed any ties to Angry Harry. I would think that would make my disapproval of Angry Harry clear.”
Y’all MRAs have some WEAK SAUCE ways of disapproving of mass murder.
I’m expecting Amanda’s apology about ‘slandering’ the Duke lacrosse team on the same day everyone starts apologizing for ‘slandering’ OJ Simpson by implying he might have done it even though he was never found guilty in criminal court…(In other words, it’s silly to think she has anything to apologize for.)
I’m also going to be waiting for a citation on all that anti-Catholic and anti-men hate speech. Apparently being “outspoken and atheist” is a form of hate speech nowadays…
Holly:
I missed where I said I approved of mass murder, or heck where Harry said HE approved of this mass murder by Breivik. In fact, he didn’t.
And yes, you can’t “win” because you hold double standards, and like to put words in people’s mouths. Breivek, much as you might want him to be wasn’t an MRA. His 1500 page screed has all of 29 pages devoted to feminism, and lots of that is cut and paste. Plus, he killed men and women. My personal opinions are that :
A. He was hoping that his actions and his manifesto would help destabliize Norweigan society.
B. He was attacking the ruling political class by attacking their teenagers and young adults of whatever sex. That some nutty feminists at a few places including Feministe tried to link this to Glenn Sacks, Warren Farrell, or heck , The Spearhead even, was disgusting.
Clarence – I would love to death to hear an MRA take all this violent rhetoric and hate speech and say “that’s not my MRA.” Would love it!
I ain’t hearing it.
Anyone seen my goal posts? I set them here a few minutes ago…
BlackBloc:
If you think Amanda’s “opinon” on the Duke case was anything but political, you have no clue what you are talking about. You also have no clue if you think there is even the slightest doubt that the entire Duke Lacrosse team of 2006 is innocent of the charges against them. I spent 6 months (when I was out of work and helping a family member) nearly every day reading about that case at both LieStoppers and Durham in Wonderland. There wasn’t any doubt, the evidence of innocence was such that only God him/her self could do more to exonerate the accused. Seriously, it’s not only that there was no evidence: no, the evidence contradicted everything Crystal Mangum ever said.
I will say your comment though is a good example of how being falsely accused of rape can hurt someone. Photographic alibi’s of one of the players being elsewhere at the time he was alleged to be raping this accuser, discrepancies in a story, lack of any team DNA from an alleged brutal gang rape, (tons of DNA going back a week from men who weren’t on the team) testimony from the other stripper, testimony from an african american cab driver who wasn’t even on the team – and you still think they might have done something. Good job.
I disapprove of mass murder in general and Breivik’s mass murder in particular. I’m not sure how what I say will help poor ol Glenn Sacks though.
What can I say? I’m just bitter because I was falsely accused of not being raped.
I’m still waiting for one of you more- moral- than thou people to actually research what Amanda did in 2006 and early 2007. She actually threw rape defendants “under the bus” for her ideological purposes. It was disgusting and said nothing good about her as a person.
Can we say “double standards” and for the ones who don’t have them -“memory hole”?
Clarence, please. Marcotte is not the issue here as others have said. Unbunch your undies and move on.
Did you miss where it says this is a mockery site? It is exactly what it says on the tin.
hellkell:
It’s always good when I can show examples of feminist duplicity. It helps make the case against them and Amanda Marcotte is one of their biggest and easiest targets yet even though it would seem to cost them nothing to repudiate her, they don’t. Really, decent people would repudiate someone willing to lie and smear.
These guys are mostly powerless losers who don’t speak for the larger and more established MRM, and often let off steam on private blogs. That some are downright misogynists is not to be denied, but that they mean anything otherwise is contentious and problematic to say the least.
Unlike this famous feminist: http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2011/07/23/who-is-a-feminist-mary-daly-edition-noh/ I doubt we’ll be seeing these guys speaking on college campuses any time soon.
Are we actually discussing Amanda fucking Marcotte’s opinion about an accusation half a decade ago? Yet another deadly spree from a man anrgy at women/feminism, yet more leaders and followers within the MRA voicing support, and FeministCritics crowd – as usual – has a great sense of perspective and logic.
Clarence, I think part of your problem here is that you think this site is some kind of face for feminism, or that we need to defend the movement or anything. That’s just not the case at all. Yes, most of us Fuetellerites are feminists, but the point of this site is to mock misogynists.
It dosen’t matter if Marcotte, or any other feminist or womanist or liberal or what have you, said something dumb. What matters here is that Randall Joseph Shake DID say something dumb. And we are calling him out on it.
That’s all.
It’s ok to use threatening, violent rhetoric as long you are not also a public speaker. Is that what I’m reading?
That’s what we’re calling it these days?
BTW, what the fuck does this blog entry have to do with Amanda Marcotte?
Because :
whine, whine , whine. Oh you MRA’s why don’t you clean up your movement, whine, whine, whine.
Meanwhile feminism (which I used to count myself a member of) gets a free pass? No thank you.
Apparently, before we are allowed to mock anyone, we must first scour the internet for everything a liberal said that that CLARENCE believes was wrong and denounce it. Hmmmm. I think that could take a lot of time. Nope. I’m gonna get back to the topic at hand, and not let Clarence derail the conversation.
@Clarence: The fact that a stripper was raped at a Duke lacrosse party is undeniable, that there was some omerta and collusion within the group to protect its own is also undeniable (though it’s understandable, as every in-group, whether it be cops, punk rockers or whatever, will tend to always seek to protect its own members against outsider accusations, whether it be rape or anything else), we just don’t have any evidence to incriminate any single individual in this case. Unless you have some citations I’m just going to assume that the charges of False Accusations are as ludicrous as those levelled against the victim in the DSK case.
Still waiting on that anti-Catholic hate speech BTW. Since we’re all playing ‘bigger e-peen’, I’ve been a commenter on Pandagon for at least 6 years, so I’ve actually *read* first hand all those interesting posts you mention. The supposed hate speech that is referred to is nothing more than a mostly accurate, yet apparently blasphemous, description of one of the major tenets of Catholic religion (that Mary was impregnated by Holy Spirit spunk).
When feminists start threatening men with violence and blaming them for everything from periods to global warming, I will be a yoostabee, too.
Anyway, I do have other things to do.
It’s been fun. Well, sorta.
I suppose I’ll stick my nose in later.
This site IS usually funny.
Oh and once again: I , the great and Mighty and Important Clarence the Internet kinda-sorta MRA disapprove 100 percent to what SpocksDisciple said. I hope my official and important condemnation (which is more than Amanda Marcotte has ever gotten on here) eases the pain of those who hang on his every word, and will let you look at Glenn Sacks with respect again.
Clarence wrote, “These guys are mostly powerless losers who don’t speak for the larger and more established MRM, and often let off steam on private blogs.”
Clearence, I think part of the problem we’re having here is that Man Boobz has been unable to *find* a “larger and more established” MRM. We have had an open challenge for quite some time now, but no one seems able to link us to these more influential or more moderate blogs. What you see is what you tend to get across the board, because the MRM mostly *is* a loose collection of private blogs without the cohesion or clout of a legitimate movement.
Unless you know of other MRA sources that we just haven’t found yet? Feel free to link them.
You can drag Marcotte and DUKE LACROSSE PLAYERS!!!!1!!11!! in to the discussion all you want. It is an apples and aardvarks comparison and it is a transparent, diversionary tactic.
Writers within the MRM blogosphere, whatever you may personally think about their prominence, continue to assert that the violent act of terrorism committed by Breivik: 1) had nothing to do with the MRM, but 2) was sort of caused by feminism, and 3) he sort of had a point, and 4) when these kind of attacks happen again, as they inevitably will, feminism will be responsible. Even though really only a few pages of his manifesto were about feminism so it’s totally unfair to keep bringing misogyny within the MRM up at all, don’t you know?
Put that in your pipe and “repudiate” it.
I haven’t gone to Happy Bachelors so I don’t know anything about what he says about himself there, but on facebook he shows his last employment to be ten years ago. Has he really gone Galt for ten years?
Whats the difference between the manboobz/feminist gang mocking misogyny and MRAs mocking misandry?
Feminism is always blameless therefore any criticism of feminism is misogyny. The perfect defense.