Happy day! Susan Walsh has drawn another diagram! Loyal readers of Man Boobz will recall the last time that Walsh, a would-be relationship expert who blogs at Hooking Up Smart, tried her hand at diagram making. It wasn’t pretty. In an attempt to sketch out the economic costs of sluthood, Walsh cobbled together an extravagantly convoluted mess of a flow-chart based on little more than a few bad assumptions and what she insisted was common sense.
This time, Walsh attempts to chart how the sexual revolution has transformed dating, borrowing her argument largely from some dude called Frost who blogs about sex and relationships and PUA bullshit at Freedom Twenty-Five.
Back in the old “leave it to Beaver” days, Frost argues, virtually all men and women paired off efficiently with partners who exactly matched their level of hotness, as charted on the infamous ten-point scale beloved of pickup artists and other such creatures. Fives married fives, nines married nines, and even lowly ones were able to find true love and hot ugly sex with others as unfortunate as they were. As Walsh puts it, attempting to make all this somehow sound vaguely scientific:
This system worked pretty well in achieving equilibrium with respect to SMV (sexual market value).
Naturally, neither Frost nor Walsh offer any evidence that any of this was true. Which only makes sense, since it, er, wasn’t.
Let’s set that aside for a moment and move on to our current fallen state, post-sexual revolution. Now, apparently, a small minority of hot dudes score all the chicks, from nines on down to threes. Everyone else spends their lonely nights alone with their hands and a choice of vibrator or fleshlight.
Here’s where the diagram comes in. It’s a doozy:
Now, Walsh doesn’t actually explain how she knows this (or, rather believes it, since it clearly is not true), or why exactly she thinks the sexual revolution is to blame. But Frost does, sort of. With the sexual revolution, he argues,
the social convention of monogamy starts to break down. Women are free to do what they want, and they quickly realize that the men they can persuade to have short-term sexual relationships with are much, much more attractive than the men willing to marry them. Attractive men are free to eschew marriage, and instead maintain a harem of rotating friends-with-benefits and one-night stands. Super-attractive men (professional athletes, rock stars, bloggers) can spend every night with a different coterie of young, attractive women, railing lines off their ass cheeks and banging them senseless.
Sounds great for men. And not too bad for women either, who get to shag NHL players and bloggers instead of their ho-hum husbands.
Wait a minute. “… and bloggers?” Bloggers are now the alpha males? I wish I’d known this sooner!
But every woman who elects to join a harem, must necessarily leave a lonely man behind in the great mating scramble. … The men at the bottom are left to their RPGs and porn.
So there you have the effects of the sexual revolution on men: Great for the few, awful for the teeming masses.
Well, there’s a certain logic to that argument. It’s just not, you know, true.
Walsh and all the manosphere dudes who’ve convinced themselves that 80% of men have been left sexless have it backwards: as a handy FAQ at the Kinsey Institute points out, only about 10 percent of men don’t have sex during any given year. The average frequency of sex ranges from more than 100 times a year for those in their teens and twenties to about 70 times a year for those in their 40s.
But what about the ladies? Frost explains that they suffer too, especially those unfortunate enough to be mega-hotties. Frost seems to base this conclusion almost entirely on the sexual history of one Betty Draper. This seems a very small sample size to me. Also, she’is fictional. But that doesn’t stand in Frost’s way:
What about the top woman? The ultimate hottie? Previously, she had the top man all to herself. She literally could not have asked for anything more, assuming as I do that women naturally gravitate toward sleeping with the one man who is their best option at a given time, while men are only as faithful as their options. Suddenly, her man is beset by hussies, plying him with offers of cheap sex. How does Betty Draper feel about the breakdown of monogamy in her world? …
Now [the top women] must choose between sharing, or settling for a man far below her previous catch. Meanwhile, uglier women can choose between monogamy with a man far above her previous level, or a shared slice of one of the top men. She is unequivocally better off, as the hotter women are unequivocally worse off.
Frost concludes:
The Sexual Revolution harms attractive women, and unattractive men. It benefits unattractive women, and attractive men.
Naturally, none of this is the fault of men. It is, Frost and Walsh apparently agree, the fault of all those mid-level bitches slutting it up with the top men. It’s all their fault that the ladies at the top and bottom are getting left high and dry.
Indeed, it’s high time that the hottest hotties stood up for their rights, Frost argues in a second blog post:
It never seems to occur to the hot girls of the world that the sexual revolution is the cause of their troubles. Without it, the best that a top man could do is find a top woman, and devote his life to her. In our present dystopia, he can find that top woman, and rip her heart and soul to pieces by maintaining a harem of flings on the side.
If it wasn’t for the legions of female 7′s and 8′s throwing themselves at the male 9′s, the female 9′s could have their men all to themselves. But in the world as it is, they will always be competing with the omnipresent availability of cheap and easy sex.
Were the hot women to regain their hot pride, sluts and feminists alike would quake in their boots:
The greatest fear of the feminists is that desirable women like yourselves will wake up the lies they’ve been fed, embrace their feminine modesty, and cast the harsh light reality on of the fat, shrill, used-up slutwalkers and middle-aged divorcees.
What of the not-quite-hotties? Walsh has some harsher advice for all those “mediocre sluts” out there riding that alpha asshole cock carousel. She writes:
For less attractive women, an objective assessment of market value is essential. That can only be realized by evaluating which men are interested in dating you rather than banging you.
In other words: mid-level ladies, you’re still losers. Eventually, you asses will get fat, your skin will get wrinkly, and the alpha assholes will grow tired of banging you. So what are you poor gals to do? Walsh offers this grim assessment:
These are the hard truths of the Post Sexual Revolution era. There are a few winners, and many losers. It is difficult to see how equilibrium can ever be regained. For now at least, your only option is to think carefully and realistically about your personal life goals. Make sure the choices you’re making get you closer to them.
(Confidential to Susan Walsh: You do know that using terms like “equilibrium,” like you’re some sort of sexual economist, doesn’t actually make your bullshit true?)
Given that everything in Frost and Walsh’s posts here is such unmitigated bullshit, I think I have some better advice for women of all hotness levels (if they haven’t already figured this out for themselves): stop taking relationship advice from a woman who wants you to hate yourself.
And speaking of bad choices: those smileys? Oy. Strive for elegant simplicity, not tacky clutter.
NOTE: Chuck on Gucci Little Piggy has written a response of sorts to this post. I’ve replied on his blog here. But there is something distressing going on there: Someone has posted several rude comments there under the name “Man Boobz.” THAT PERSON IS NOT ME. If any of you are responsible, STOP IMMEDIATELY. I’ve asked Chuck to ban that person and delete the comments.
EDITED TO ADD: Chuck changed the name of the commenter to “not man boobz.” That makes sense to me.
Dense? No. I’m confused. You’re conflating a million different things and calling it rigorous analysis like you’er Humpty Dumpty in Through the Looking Glass and can just make words mean anything you want. I just want you to make some sense.
You’re asserting that as a result of the sexual revolution and the unrestrained sexuality of women, attractive men are so busy hooking up with unattractive, slutty women, that everyone’s missing out on opportunities for the equally matched -by your ranking system- to be in committed relationships. I’m sorry, but I just don’t see any real world evidence for that. And I’m pretty social, live in a coastal city, and went to college.
I see attractive men who are in relationships; married even. And I see unattractive women who are in committed relationships and many of them are married. Every where I go, when I see couples, they’re usually fairly evenly matched in terms of looks.
I don’t see how the sexual revolution has changed this.
The only thing that the Sexual Revolution has changed is the idea that monogamous lifestyles aren’t the only way to go. People can have sex outside of marriage, people can be in marriages with different numbers of people (and people of the same gender)…
What it did was made it ok for people to express themselves the way they wanted to sexually. It did not change anyone’s desires, any more than teaching a young child that gay people exist turns hir gay. Zie might have been gay, but repressed it thinking it was evil or bad, and therefore appeared straight, but would have been very unhappy (miserable, even). It means that sex doesn’t have to be a big social taboo, orders of magnitude more censored than violence. And it means that people who prefer monogamous relationships are free to do so, with other people who want to as well.
Pro-tip from an actual sociologist Walsh. Telling people to get out of their feminist echo chambers is not a citation. Do some actual research, provide substantive qualitative and quantitative data, and then you may have something. Until then, you’ve got only your false premises and very poorly thought out biologically deterministic arguments. That still lacks any substantive data.
Using bonobos and gypsies as a barometer my guess is that human females are (naturally) more promiscuous than Susan wants to believe.
BUT they are a lot more selective about who they are promiscuous with than suckass crowd wants to admit.
“Using bonobos and gypsies as a barometer my guess is that human females are (naturally) more promiscuous than Susan wants to believe.
BUT they are a lot more selective about who they are promiscuous with than suckass crowd wants to admit.”
Good luck with talking to Susan Walsh, a woman who writes about other women, about what women want.
OK, Ami, you keep teasing us…now I want to know who your secret Manboobz crushes are!
I know one is Kirby, so I’m going to guess: NWO, MRAL, and Magdelyn. Amirite? XD
And of course the only reason people date/stay together is looks, silly! That’s why, now that I’m pregnant and losing my waist, thus going from a 10 to a 9.8, my husband is temporarily leaving me. He’ll be back after I give birth and lose the baby weight. Settling for anything less than a perfect 10 to match his perfect 10 would diminish his market value.
/eyeroll
Isn’t just about everyone selective about who they have sex with, EWME, regardless of promiscuity?
I have spent a lot of time (too much, really) asking Susan Walsh to cite and explain her goddamn “it’s biology!!!” assertions. And she never has, and gets quite defensive when I ask her for research to back up her points.
But you know what? It some ways that misses the point. Sure, most of her “facts” are baseless assertions, but let’s just give her her premises for a second. Let’s say that sluts are ruining it for everybody, because with all this free sex around men won’t commit to anyone.
Who the hell wants a partner that is only with them because it’s the golden ticket to sex? If I am going to be in a committed monogamous relationship, I sure as hell hope it’s with someone who also wants to be in a committed monogamous relationship with me, not just someone who wants to get laid (and damn, all the would-be sluts have been shamed into monogamy–guess he’ll just have to settle for monogamy too!)
I’m trying to imagine why anyone would want to be in a committed, monogamous relationship if the only things that matter are looks and perceptions of social dominance.
Good point, LaPlace. Why would you want to be with someone who’d rather be banging “sluts” than be in an LTR with you? You’d be happier alone. Unless you believe that men are so superior to women that they have to be bribed with sex to spend time with them, this makes no sense.
Nobinayamu: for some people, I think, a relationship is something that impresses others, not something that has value in itself; you know, wanting to get with the head cheerleader/football captain in high school because that’ll show all those jerks who called you a nerd. It’s a cold and, to my mind, very immature way of looking at relationships, but it explains the MRA obsession with status and dominance.
“Are you really this dense? Unattractive women and attractive men are not couples! They have no-strings sex briefly. Men do not happily date sluts. Men with options never date sluts.”
Are you shitting me? The sexiest guy I know has been in a long term relationship with an ‘unattractive’ woman for the last 8 years I’ve known him, and he’s amazingly loyal to her.
“It’s not that complicated, people. It’s supply and demand.”
I know economics is a field that wouldn’t know intellectual rigor if it danced on a table in front of it, but can it really not do any better than this?
“Re “citations fucking needed” maybe if you got out of your feminist echo chamber and read the news once in a while you would have a clue. It wouldn’t matter, though would it? You’d just dismiss every new study (Mark Regnerus, Ogi Ogas, etc.) as “junk science.” Yeah, OK.”
Can you substantiate a single fucking claim that you’ve made? At all? None of this posturing about ‘feminist echo chambers’ is a motherfucking citation; it’s just you evading the responsibility to substantiate your claims.
For fuck’s sake, when my laziness keeps me from substantiating my claims I don’t lash out at the other person for my laziness.
And for double fuck’s sake, if I were in the business of substantiating my truth claims as a blogger, I would have a reasonable library of links already built up. I’m not even in that business and I’ve started to compile a library of links relevant to arguments I frequently am involved in.
“Women in countries that have a shortage of marriageable men, e.g. Latvia are much more promiscuous than women in countries with a plentiful supply of men. That has been documented by economists using a sociosexual index 😛 ”
Funnily enough, that isn’t a citation. That is a fact claim.
“It’s not right or wrong it just is. There’s no judgment here. It’s biology. ”
You know what’s the difference between evolutionary psychology and developmental biology? If a devobiologist wants to make a serious claim that an evolutionary change is a benefit to a species, they have to fucking devise and implement a fitness test for that change; seeing as an actual test requires a grant, they have to have an explanatory mechanism that will pass serious muster to get the money to test their claim. Of course, they might be wrong, and that’s fine; the point of science is to test, after all.
If an Evopsychologist wants to make a claim taken seriously within their group, ze finds something that is thought to exist in humans, doesn’t substantiate that this trait exists in humans, and comes up with a Just-So story as an explanatory mechanism. No fitness tests are devised or conducted. The last ‘study’ I saw from the evopsych people attempted to explain how homophobia had a fitness benefit, and it succeeded in establishing that homophobia exists (Because it didn’t run fucking fitness tests and didn’t actually test its fucking claims). And it used 30 year old data to do it too.
Susan Walsh dropping bombs up in here!
Wait…wait, no, Susan just dropped lots of poop on the floor.
God, my head is spinning from all of this.
Oh, she thinks the CDC data supports her claims. The same ones that point out that the majority of both men and women had one sexual partner in the last year, and that don’t actually examine the distribution of sex? The only wayt o make those statistics work for your claim that a minority of men have most of the sexual partners is to assume that all of those sexual partners from each person is a distinct individual whom only they have some sort of ‘claim’ on (Because hte majority of women have only had 1 or 0 sexual partners in the last year). If the overwhelming majority of men had 0 sexual partners, that would be possible, but they haven’t. Those numbers don’t work.
Gucci Little Piggy tried to get out of this by changing the claim to “20% of men have 80% of the sex”. But the data provided absolutely can not substantiate that claim, because the data only talks about sexual partners.
If this is what you think rigor looks like, you’re as bad at actually sciencing as the rest of your profession generally is.
I wonder if there’s a Salem Hypothesis for economists and social science work…
I am unable to offer anything more substantial than I actually looked up spinster lit on Amazon. 1st book is about how the idea of the unmarried woman has evolved in popular culture, 2nd is a college study guide for a short story with “spinster” in the title, and 3rd is a book about the Salem witch trials.
“Isn’t just about everyone selective about who they have sex with, EWME, regardless of promiscuity?”
Females are still more selective than males are.
They are wired this way because being a baby factory (as opposed to just providing blueprints) imposes stricter limits on how many babies you can have with your DNA in them.
“maybe if you got out of your feminist echo chamber and read the news once in a while you would have a clue. It wouldn’t matter, though would it? You’d just dismiss every new study”
Arguing with these folks is like playing chess with an 8 year old that changes the rules when he sees he’s losing.
Cite anything and you will find that their goal post moving expertise rivals creationists.
That’s why I prefer to just be a pain in the butt to them.
“That’s why I prefer to just be a pain in the butt to them.”
Because you’re doing SO MUCH with that tactic, EWME.
Yawn, EWME.
Can you substantiate a single fucking claim that you’ve made? At all?
Don’t you get it? She BLOGS. FREQUENTLY.
Arguing with these folks is like playing chess with an 8 year old that changes the rules when he sees he’s losing.
Cite anything and you will find that their goal post moving expertise rivals creationists.
Can you show where, in older threads, this happened? I’d hate to think we were guilty of anything like that, so if you post a link to where a feminist who posts on Manboobz argued so poorly, I’d be glad to address your concern.
“I’d hate to think we were guilty of anything like that,”
If you weren’t so dense I’d think you were being sarcastic.
Arguing with these folks is like playing chess with an 8 year old that changes the rules when he sees he’s losing.
Cite anything and you will find that their goal post moving expertise rivals creationists.
oh? 😀
We should test this! 😀 Susan, prove EWME, cite things to prove your point 😀 (specifically about the biological stuff, I’m v curious if it’s hormonal, brain structure, DNA, etc 😀 )
Btw, when was the last time EWME actually argued w/ nebody here xD As long as I’ve been here, he’s just dropped in to make fat jokes xD How would he know? XD
Females are still more selective than males are.
They are wired this way because being a baby factory (as opposed to just providing blueprints) imposes stricter limits on how many babies you can have with your DNA in them.
What about women who aren’t baby factories? (who don’t even have the blue print of one?) Are they therefore less selective? 😀 ttlly different personality? o_O Can you predict the personality of any woman? 😀 (I wanna test this :3 )
That’s it?
This blog deserves a better class of troll.