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Susan Walsh: Chartbreaker, Part 2

Happy day!  Susan Walsh has drawn another diagram! Loyal readers of Man Boobz will recall the last time that Walsh, a would-be relationship expert who blogs at Hooking Up Smart, tried her hand at diagram making. It wasn’t pretty. In an attempt to sketch out the economic costs of sluthood, Walsh cobbled together an extravagantly convoluted mess of a flow-chart based on little more than a few bad assumptions and what she insisted was common sense.

This time, Walsh attempts to chart how the sexual revolution has transformed dating, borrowing her argument largely from some dude called Frost who blogs about sex and relationships and PUA bullshit at  Freedom Twenty-Five.

Back in the old “leave it to Beaver” days, Frost argues, virtually all men and women paired off efficiently with partners who exactly matched their level of hotness, as charted on the infamous ten-point scale beloved of pickup artists and other such creatures. Fives married fives, nines married nines, and even lowly ones were able to find true love and hot ugly sex with others as unfortunate as they were. As Walsh puts it, attempting to make all this somehow sound vaguely scientific:

This system worked pretty well in achieving equilibrium with respect to SMV (sexual market value).

Naturally, neither Frost nor Walsh offer any evidence that any of this was true. Which only makes sense, since it, er, wasn’t.

Let’s set that aside for a moment and move on to our current fallen state, post-sexual revolution. Now, apparently, a small minority of hot dudes score all the chicks, from nines on down to threes. Everyone else spends their lonely nights alone with their hands and a choice of vibrator or fleshlight.

Here’s where the diagram comes in. It’s a doozy:

From "Hooking Up Smart."

Now, Walsh doesn’t actually explain how she knows this (or, rather believes it, since it clearly is not true), or why exactly she thinks the sexual revolution is to blame. But Frost does, sort of. With the sexual revolution, he argues,

the social convention of monogamy starts to break down. Women are free to do what they want, and they quickly realize that the men they can persuade to have short-term sexual relationships with are much, much more attractive than the men willing to marry them. Attractive men are free to eschew marriage, and instead maintain a harem of rotating friends-with-benefits and one-night stands. Super-attractive men (professional athletes, rock stars, bloggers) can spend every night with a different coterie of young, attractive women, railing lines off their ass cheeks and banging them senseless.

Sounds great for men. And not too bad for women either, who get to shag NHL players and bloggers instead of their ho-hum husbands.

Wait a minute. “… and bloggers?” Bloggers are now the alpha males? I wish I’d known this sooner!

But every woman who elects to join a harem, must necessarily leave a lonely man behind in the great mating scramble. … The men at the bottom are left to their RPGs and porn.

So there you have the effects of the sexual revolution on men: Great for the few, awful for the teeming masses.

Well, there’s a certain logic to that argument. It’s just not, you know, true.

Walsh and all the manosphere dudes who’ve convinced themselves that 80% of men have been left sexless have it backwards: as a handy FAQ at the Kinsey Institute points out, only about 10 percent of men don’t have sex during any given year. The average frequency of sex ranges from more than 100 times a year for those in their teens and twenties to about 70 times a year for those in their 40s.

But what about the ladies? Frost explains that they suffer too, especially those unfortunate enough to be mega-hotties. Frost seems to base this conclusion almost entirely on the sexual history of one Betty Draper. This seems a very small sample size to me. Also, she’is fictional. But that doesn’t stand in Frost’s way:

What about the top woman? The ultimate hottie? Previously, she had the top man all to herself. She literally could not have asked for anything more, assuming as I do that women naturally gravitate toward sleeping with the one man who is their best option at a given time, while men are only as faithful as their options. Suddenly, her man is beset by hussies, plying him with offers of cheap sex. How does Betty Draper feel about the breakdown of monogamy in her world? …

Now [the top women] must choose between sharing, or settling for a man far below her previous catch. Meanwhile, uglier women can choose between monogamy with a man far above her previous level, or a shared slice of one of the top men. She is unequivocally better off, as the hotter women are unequivocally worse off.

Frost concludes:

The Sexual Revolution harms attractive women, and unattractive men. It benefits unattractive women, and attractive men.

Betty Drapers of the world, unite!

Naturally, none of this is the fault of men. It is, Frost and Walsh apparently agree, the fault of all those mid-level bitches slutting it up with the top men. It’s all their fault that the ladies at the top and bottom are getting left high and dry.

Indeed, it’s high time that the hottest hotties stood up for their rights, Frost argues in a second blog post:

It never seems to occur to the hot girls of the world that the sexual revolution is the cause of their troubles. Without it, the best that a top man could do is find a top woman, and devote his life to her. In our present dystopia,  he can find that top woman, and rip her heart and soul to pieces by maintaining a harem of flings on the side.

If it wasn’t for the legions of female 7′s and 8′s throwing themselves at the male 9′s, the female 9′s could have their men all to themselves. But in the world as it is, they will always be competing with the omnipresent availability of cheap and easy sex.

Were the hot women to regain their hot pride, sluts and feminists alike would quake in their boots:

The greatest fear of the feminists is that desirable women like yourselves will wake up the lies they’ve been fed, embrace their feminine modesty, and cast the harsh light reality on of the fat, shrill, used-up slutwalkers and middle-aged divorcees.

What of the not-quite-hotties? Walsh has some harsher advice for all those “mediocre sluts” out there riding that alpha asshole cock carousel. She writes:

For less attractive women, an objective assessment of market value is essential. That can only be realized by evaluating which men are interested in dating you rather than banging you.

In other words: mid-level ladies, you’re still losers. Eventually, you asses will get fat, your skin will get wrinkly, and the alpha assholes will grow tired of banging you. So what are you poor gals to do? Walsh offers this grim assessment:

These are the hard truths of the Post Sexual Revolution era. There are a few winners, and many losers. It is difficult to see how equilibrium can ever be regained. For now at least, your only option is to think carefully and realistically about your personal life goals. Make sure the choices you’re making get you closer to them.

(Confidential to Susan Walsh: You do know that using terms like “equilibrium,” like you’re some sort of sexual economist, doesn’t actually make your bullshit true?)

Given that everything in Frost and Walsh’s posts here is such unmitigated bullshit, I think I have some better advice for women of all hotness levels (if they haven’t already figured this out for themselves): stop taking relationship advice from a woman who wants you to hate yourself.

And speaking of bad choices: those smileys? Oy. Strive for elegant simplicity, not tacky clutter.

NOTE: Chuck on Gucci Little Piggy has written a response of sorts to this post. I’ve replied on his blog here. But there is something distressing going on there: Someone has posted several rude comments there under the name “Man Boobz.” THAT PERSON IS NOT ME. If any of you are responsible, STOP IMMEDIATELY. I’ve asked Chuck to ban that person and delete the comments.

EDITED TO ADD: Chuck changed the name of the commenter to “not man boobz.” That makes sense to me.

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kirbywarp
kirbywarp
13 years ago

@susanwalsh:

“Re “citations fucking needed” maybe if you got out of your feminist echo chamber and read the news once in a while you would have a clue. It wouldn’t matter, though would it? You’d just dismiss every new study (Mark Regnerus, Ogi Ogas, etc.) as “junk science.” Yeah, OK.”

You know, just once I wish you people would stop assuming what evidence we would or would not find convincing. Even with NWO, we looked at his links and critiqued them on their own merits. The only one discarding an argument offhand is you.

So try us. Justify your statements. I guarantee that if we don’t agree with you afterwards, we’ll actually be giving critiques on the evidence you present.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
13 years ago

“They were presumably in love, and marrying men of similar attractiveness.”

I’m sorry, when did this stop? People are still marrying people of similar attractiveness. Nothing about the sexual revolution changed this.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
13 years ago

@evilwhitemalempire:

“But what if you’re a serial killer?”

Clever. Infringing on other peoples rights, like them living their life, is (broadly) what the law is designed for. If your lifestyle is centered on denying others rights, sorry charlie but that’s not happening. (And if you do so through violence, you’re going to jail)

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

@Nobinayamu lies! Even a lv2 telepath knows this isn’t true! xD

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

*kills Kirby*

susanawalsh
susanawalsh
13 years ago

Where does social dominance figure on the 1-10 scale of attractiveness. How is it measured and folded into the numerical ranking system?

It is key, even more important than looks, both for short- and long-term mating. However, long-term mating criteria include indicators of character.

And you don’t think that sluts steal men away… but they are dangerous competition for women and risky for men?

Dangerous? No. They depress the market for relationships. That’s not dangerous in my view, just disappointing.

Risky for men? Only in the STD sense. Very few men will risk marrying sluts, and most won’t date them either. That’s why women still lie about their numbers with great regularity.

Susan, when you go out into the world and look around at people presenting as couples you don’t notice that something like 90% of the time they’re about equally matched in looks?

When I go to college campuses I don’t see many couples. I’ve noticed the same thing in NYC, a very difficult dating market. (See Spinster Lit genre at Amazon.)

As for couples being matched in looks, I think women are generally better looking than the men. One of my focus groups has a saying that “boyfriends are ugly.” In other words, women will date guys who are less physically attractive (though still dominant). There are very few gorgeous, monogamous, committed men under 25 or so. This does change as men age, and they avoid sluts entirely if they can (many women lie).

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

Women select men that are deemed attractive by other women, i.e. social proof.

Ok, I’m attracted to 3 guys and 1 woman on this forum :3 Tell me about them? 😀 And what situations made me attracted to them… what prolly happened that I became attracted to them. Why am I still attracted to them? How many other ppl like them? 😀

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

I’ll give her credit for this.. xD Even if she can’t substantiate her claims, she at least has a working model of the universe that she will expand on… unlike some other ppl we knwo xD

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

When I go to college campuses I see tons of couples xD (of course sometimes ppl are in relationships but are also not w/ their SO at the time as they are off to class or hanging out w/ friends and stuff xD )

susanawalsh
susanawalsh
13 years ago

Okay, so wait :3 Are you saying now that you’re writing only from personal experience, and only from what you “know” in your life, and that’s why you discount other types of relationships and other types of ppl? Or are you saying this is biological and general fact (like you were earlier?) xD

I write from personal experience, regular meetings with focus groups of women in their 20s (some promiscuous), extensive reading and research, and extensive debate. I often write questions rather than answers. I write out of intellectual curiosity and I encourage readers to share their knowledge, which they do, generously and enthusiastically.

Honestly, I have written over 500 posts in 2 and a half years. I have 50,000 comments on my site. I have linked to hundreds of studies and articles. My writing is consistent and reliable. I do not jump to conclusions. I don’t present studies as fact, I report the news and offer editorial commentary. That’s my blog and that’s how I do it. It has worked well so far. Feel free to read it all. It is not practical to list the 500 relevant links here, but even if it were I feel no need to defend my work to this crew.

There is no other blog that I know have that fosters discussion and support between the sexes like mine does. Where are the men here? Is David the eunuch guarding the harem? You’re all just patting each other on the back – no one is really sharing any information or learning anything. Even the posts here are based on ridicule, not keen observation or analysis.

eilish
eilish
13 years ago

Oh. My. God.

Thanks for stopping by Susan. You are The Best MRA spokesperson EVAH. Such confidence! So many assertions that are entirely wrong!
My favourite Susanism is “women who barter sex for marriage are not commodities”.
It doesn’t even de-construct! Awesome!

I’m going to look at pictures of kittens and puppies now. All this talk of sluts is making my inner Baby Jesus cry.

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

Where are the men here?

o_O

A lot of the ppl here are men xD You’ve engaged w/ a bunch of them xD

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
13 years ago

“I’ve defined slut here before – essentially, it’s a woman who separates sex from emotion, regardless of her number. It’s a woman who seeks sex to scratch an itch. Or a woman who seeks sex with a hot guy as a form of attention and male validation. Those are the women, in my view, who present the greatest threat to other women, and the greatest risk for men.”

That’s you, right? Because, generally, when people use terms like “greatest threat” and “greatest risk” the implication is one of danger, not disappointment.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
13 years ago

“As for couples being matched in looks, I think women are generally better looking than the men. One of my focus groups has a saying that “boyfriends are ugly.” In other words, women will date guys who are less physically attractive (though still dominant).”

If this is what you see, how has the sexual revolution thrown off the balance of mating in favor of unattractive women and attractive men? You really don’t see how this statement is a direct contradiction of your previous assertions?

susanawalsh
susanawalsh
13 years ago

OK, final comment.

a) You are free to pursue (within reason) people you are attracted to, and you are free to reject those to whom you are not.
b) You are free to live the lifestyle you prefer, and you are free to seek those who share the same interest and avoid those who do not.
c) You have the right to not approve of other people’s preferences.

d) You do not have the right to try to force people who you are attracted to to feel attracted to you back.
e) You are not free to try to enforce your life-style choices upon others, whether through shaming tactics, law, or otherwise.
f) You do not have the right to expect anyone to care about your disapproval of them.

I agree with all except “e”. Peer pressure, or shaming, has been used by civilizations throughout time to maintain a social contract that benefits society. Female promiscuity does not benefit society. It doesn’t even benefit sluts, but that’s not my concern. I have never suggested laws to restrain female sexuality.

Most sex-positive feminists don’t appear to be marrying or reproducing as far as I can tell, so you’re unlikely to care about women who do have those life goals. You won’t pass on your ideology to daughters or sons, so your influence, which is waning, should be negligible within a generation or two. In the meantime, I will continue to support women who want to find a life partner in a very hostile SMP.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
13 years ago

@susanwalsh:

“Honestly, I have written over 500 posts in 2 and a half years. I have 50,000 comments on my site. I have linked to hundreds of studies and articles. My writing is consistent and reliable. I do not jump to conclusions. I don’t present studies as fact, I report the news and offer editorial commentary. That’s my blog and that’s how I do it.”

Well awesome, you should be really knowledgeable in your area, and you should be able to easily justify and explain the points we find problems with in a coherent manner. A reputable blogger like you should never have to fall to puffing up your opinion as expertise as a means of making people simply take your word for it without evidence, right? Right?

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

Even the posts here are based on ridicule, not keen observation or analysis.

Except for all the ppl who have actually engaged you, and asked you for cites, and more elaboration on the biological aspect, and critiqued the things you’ve said and etc etc xD

Also apparently we just dun observe the world as well as you do? o: How did you come to this conclusion btw? 😀 How can you tell when somebody doesn’t keenly observe things, and when somebody does? 😀

Like I keenly observe society and gender relations and gender roles (prolly even deeper than you’d suspect due to my background and history xD ) .. and I come to different conclusions! *gasp*

*crowd goes silent*

Tell me why I am not as keen in my observations? 😀

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

Female promiscuity does not benefit society.

Uh… huh…

please.. continue 😀

susanawalsh
susanawalsh
13 years ago

“As for couples being matched in looks, I think women are generally better looking than the men. One of my focus groups has a saying that “boyfriends are ugly.” In other words, women will date guys who are less physically attractive (though still dominant).”

If this is what you see, how has the sexual revolution thrown off the balance of mating in favor of unattractive women and attractive men? You really don’t see how this statement is a direct contradiction of your previous assertions?

Are you really this dense? Unattractive women and attractive men are not couples! They have no-strings sex briefly. Men do not happily date sluts. Men with options never date sluts.

Attractive non-slutty women want to date, so they date less attractive men who offer commitment.

It’s not that complicated, people. It’s supply and demand.

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

The question is….. *timpani roll*

is this her final comment? O:

call in now and cast your vote!

press 1 for Yes and 2 for No!

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

Wow she ninja’d me xD I guess the No side wins alrdy xD

Okay…. *timpani roll again*

is THIS her final comment? 😀

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

Unattractive women and attractive men are not couples! They have no-strings sex briefly. Men do not happily date sluts. Men with options never date sluts.

XDDD

There’s a bit of a self fulfilling thing here.. since any man who does date a “slut” (by her definition) would then by definition be said to have no options xD And no matter how they may claim, or how their partner may tell her, they’re obv not happy xD

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

I love how nobody dates for ANY OTHER REASON but looks xD

Like it doesn’t matter your interests, or personality or nething xD

(by her logic I shouldn’t be more in love w/ Bob McCown than… LeBron James)

I actually have some other questions now 😀 like how other things factor.. disability… race… etc like in the “sexual marketplace” is it then that nobody would date a disabled person unless they had no choice too? And they’d obv trade for an abled person if they could right? xD

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

Why do ppl always take shots at David? xD If this is his plan to get all the chicks, it’s working pretty well… you should be reluctantly, angrily, impressed xD

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
13 years ago

@Ami:

Yeah, asking questions won’t really go anywhere, because she’s given no reason to believe her. She can spin a yarn all she wants, but to convince people that disagree with her she needs to provide the evidence. This isn’t her blog, where everything she posts is instantly accepted by the majority.

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