So here’s the strangest response I’ve seen so far to the massacre in Norway. On Sofiastry, an antifeminist blog that seems to be broadly sympathetic to the “alt” (that is, the “intellectually” racist) right, blogger Sofia complains that feminist bloggers – she cites me and Hugo Schwyzer – are talking about the blatant anti-feminism and misogyny of mass murderer Anders Breivik. “The mendacious corollary they are trying to construct,” she writes, falling into the purple prose Alt-Righters seem drawn to like flies on bullshit, “is that all those opposed to feminist principles must be in league with all sorts of unsavory radicals.”
As I’ve already noted, this is not actually true; Sofia is being, well, mendacious. Yes, I pointed out the similarities between Breivik’s noxious misogynistic beliefs and, well, the noxious misogynistic beliefs of an embarrassingly large number of antifeminists and MRAs. But at no point did I (or, for that matter, Hugo) suggest that these people supported his despicable actions.
After purporting to be shocked – shocked! – that anyone would connect Breivik with the antifeminists of the world, Sofia offers an appreciation of sorts for Breivik’s awful manifesto. Waxing pompous yet again, she writes:
[A]lthough his actions were cruel beyond belief, and committed by a delusional, psychopath driven by his delusions of political grandeur, there is lucidity and sense in much of what he writes. He never seemed to explicitly advocated for a genocide of Muslims within Europe, but superficially claimed that he just wanted to sustain European culture.
So, let’s weigh Breivik’s pros and cons here. CON: He murdered 76 people in cold blood, motivated by a hateful ideology. PRO: He didn’t explicitly call for actual genocide?
Here’s where it gets weird. Really weird.
I feel that Breivik is being tried for more than his cruelty within the feminist community. The fact that he belongs to the privileged group of the white male makes him hate-worthy along with every other privileged white male who might sympathize with his ideology, even if they don’t happen to be psychotic. Breivik exemplifies White Men, even though Osama Bin Laden to the very same liberal ideologues did not represent Every Muslim.
It’s another symptom of our culture that feels it is OK to hold white men to higher standards of political correctness, self-flagellation and martyrdom whilst simultaneously relentlessly berating and mocking them on a cultural level.
Yep, that’s right. We hate Breivik … because he’s a white dude.
She continues on in this vein:
The subtle manifestations of an anti-white male agenda could be expounded upon for some time, even in the sexual sphere. In porn, the genre of cuckolding usually involves black men fucking white women to the dismay of her white husband. Something tells me this wouldn’t be acceptable if a black man were to stand helplessly by while a white male was sexually coercive with a black female.
Somehow we started off talking about mass murder and ended up talking about … cuckolding porn?
What. The. Fuck?
Matter of fact, there’s a thread going on the forum about that very topic if you’d like to give it a look
gadzooks, Mert, I have not had time to check the forms in forever! Any clue where that one is?
Also, by using Gadzooks, I wish to express my guilt as a white male zombie.
Either a fetish he really enjoyed but hated himself for so he externalized it into hating non-whites or he felt that it was proper degradation for women.
Well, FFS, like we are lacking of repressed idiots overcompensating in various ways.
Here in the Declining Empire Of Americay, many of our Republican Nitwits seem to decide that a public exhibition is the best way to come out of the closet. And, to to be fair zombie, some number of Democrats also. Although I WILL say, regards to Edwards and Weiner, their peccadilloes are not, in themselves, illegal, so there’s that.
@ZRM:
“gadzooks, Mert, I have not had time to check the forms in forever! Any clue where that one is?”
Gimme a sec, I’ll message it to you on the forums.
“Also, by using Gadzooks, I wish to express my guilt as a white male zombie.”
I myself have been known to exclaim things like “Balderdash”, “Poppycock” and even “Great googly moogly”, so I share your shame.
RW, feminist anti-male zones such as this one aren’t exactly a bastion of logic and reasoning ability. The truth means nothing to these people, only their hatred.
but then what’s the solution to the integration issue?
I am kind of partial to patience, tolerance and getting to know people; but then, I think water is wet, so who am I to say?
Noham Chomsky was against the US intervention in Vietnam in in the 1960s (I think he was right) but when in 1979 Vietnam invaded Cambodia and stopped the genocide done by Pol Pot against his own people, he decided to support Cambodia and the Red Khmer. At the same time he supported a French Holocaust denier, Robert Faurisson. And as I said he was a supporter of Milsosevic. And now he support Qaddafi.
RW, feminist anti-male zones such as this one
Oddly; I am a male. I have never been anything but male. One woman in a storytelling class I was in once said, “you’re a pretty masculine guy”. I have no question about my gender, nor my sexual preferences.
And I have never felt anything but welcome here; and indeed, when I have participated in threads on Shakespeare’s Sister, Feministing, or even Twisty Faster’s blog.
Because I respect the owner, the commentariat, their opinions, and their choices.
In the dichotomy YOU set up, anti-male= anti male SUPREMACY.
And I will not be part of that. So go ahead and call me mangina. Or, if you are especially attentive, zomgina.
Isn’t part of the reason why we can talk about this manifesto cos it’s in English? And we have it in English right after the attacks so we can talk about it while it’s still fresh?
To me this isn’t so much a ‘we hold them to a different standard’ thing, it’s that white christian terrorists tend to speak ‘our’ language.
In the manifestos, but also in the apologeia being issued by bucketload this week, it seems like about half of them end in some version of “but if you liberals and feminists would just SHUT UP, it won’t be necessary to shoot you.”
Oh, yeah, seeing plenty of that, along with “if you non-white people would just politely stop existing, it won’t be necessary to shoot random white people to demonstrate how mad we are.”
It’s the logic of abusers, bullies, and other varieties of coward. Everything is someone else’s fault.
Noham Chomsky was against the US intervention in Vietnam in in the 1960s
And was he wrong?
Dammit, I feel like I have to link to Driftglass, one of his “The left was RIGHT” posts.
“if you non-white people would just politely stop existing, it won’t be necessary to shoot random white people to demonstrate how mad we are.”
Oh, yea, another nice Shorter.
I for one am pretty solidly pro-male. I am anti-douchbag, however. That might be what you’re having trouble with.
Also, I’m laughing pretty hard at calling a blog created and headed by a man “anti-male.” Or is he just a silly mangina and doesn’t count as a “real man”? Are all men who disagree with you manginas?
Oh yeah, TAB nailed it. I confess, I am guilty of hate. I’m a hater. The depth of my evil, unwarranted hate knows no bounds.
I hate guys who think women are only good for use as sex toys and manual labor.
I hate guys who think the world owes them whatever women they want, whenever they want and women should just shut up and accept it.
I hate guys who think feminist women and men need to be kept in check with threats of violence and actual violence.
I hate guys who email and message threats of rape and murder to women they don’t agree with on the internet.
I hate guys who complain about how feminists say all men are rapists and then follow it up by saying men can’t be expected to control their sexual urges around provocatively-dressed women or by championing every single accused rapist no matter how great the weight of evidence against them.
I hate guys who say that men abusing women is not a huge problem because the bitch deserved a smack in the mouth obviously.
I hate guys who think they’re so fucking oppressed by women that they see guys like George Sodini and Marc Lépine as either heroes or the understandable consequences of feminism and not cowardly scumbag murderers.
And I also hate guys who bandy the word “truth” about when they really mean “set of stereotypes that serves no useful purpose outside of confirming my dumbshite worldview”.
Yep, I’m full of hate. I choose to be full of hate. And you know, when I take a good long look at who and what I hate, I find I have no problems living with it. But thank you for your concern.
@sharculese, 7/26, 11:43a “shocker: large number of leftists still white men”
Jews, gays and liberal arts majors don’t count. 😉
No you should link to a place called “The Left is dishonest”, I said he was right to be against the Vietnam war but instead of supporting Vietnam in 1979, he supported Pol Pot which is not coherent but show that the guy love bloodthirsty dictators.
Jews, gays and liberal arts majors don’t count.
well, fuck
Does my not-counting, count less if I only qualify for ONE of those categories?
Fuck. I have NEVER been good at this pigeonholing game.
OK, wait. Does Architecture count as a Liberal Arts Major? Cuz I see an escape hatch here.
One problem that Europeans have with Muslims is that there are people that want to give them Sharia Law and it’s impossible for Muslims to assimilate if they live under Sharia Law.
“The truth means nothing to these people, only their hatred.” OMG! That’s exactly what we say about MRAs! They’re plagiarising us!
MertvayaRuka: that’s not hatred, that’s resistance. Amen to everything you said.
@ MertvayaRuka
If it wasn’t already obvious, I’d like to suggest that Ion’s hostility was firmly rooted in envy.
If multiculturalism weakens a nation, how come America is the greatest goddamn country on earth? USA! USA! USA!
Anyway…no. The murdery man did not write with “lucidity and sense.” He did not make any good points. He did not make good points about Muslim immigrants being fifth columnists united in a conspiracy to destroy Western civilization (huh, same thing racists used to say about Jews). He did not make good points about white people needing to outbreed brown people. He did not make good points about reducing women to breeding stock so the white ones will have more babies. No. Bad points. End of discussion.
I am impressed, however, by the massive evidence marshaled by Sofia to prove that white men are the most oppressed and persecuted group in society:
1. Commercials portraying men as bad at housework.
2. Sharon Osborne making a joke about that lady who cut her ex-husband’s penis off.
3. Porn featuring hot black dudes.
4. People being really hard on a white guy just because he murdered a hundred people in cold blood.
@Johnny Pez:
I imagine it does make him feel worlds better to construct a fantasy version of my relationship in which I am a feminized subordinate to two women. But it probably does say a lot more about him than it does about me.
Thomas: Um… have you looked at the stats.
Breslan.
Ireland.
The Red Brigades
Bader-Meinhof
Chechnya
Looking at all attacks and foiled attempts the Europol reports say:
France, in 2006 had 294 terrorist incidents 283 separatist attacks; 11 not specified.
Spain had 145. 136 separatist; 8 Left wing; 1 unspecified.
The UK had 5 4 Separatist; 1 unspecified.
Ireland had 1, it was separatist.
Greece had 25 left wing incidents.
The numbers hold steady at about 500=600 total attacks from 2006-2008. France has the most, by and large.
So yes, the Spanish separatists (overwhelmingly Basque, but some Catalonian and Corsican as well) commit a lot, but they nevr managed to do better than half. So I don’t think “average”. Not even majority.
The average European terrorist is a bit absurd in the first place. Lumping some many countries with different political situations together makes no sense
It does when terrorism “in Europe” is being laid at the feet of Muslims.
If multiculturalism weakens a nation, how come America is the greatest goddamn country on earth? USA! USA! USA!
Because the US is not really multicultural, people assimilate. Owning an Italian restaurant doesn’t make you an Italian and eating pizza doesn’t make you an expert in Italian culture. The US has one of the lowest proportion of bilingual or multilingual people in the world and most people in the US are not interested in foreign movies or books. Europe, because it’s composed of small countries of different cultures and languages is really multicultural.
Sofia: That newspiece is either incorrect, or mis-subtitled.
I did some research and those results are here
The short version: Yes, immigrants committed the majority of rapes in Norway. But 40 percent of rapes were committed by Norwegians. Further the greatest increase in the rate of rape was highest in the more northern, less immigrant rich parts of the country.