So here’s the strangest response I’ve seen so far to the massacre in Norway. On Sofiastry, an antifeminist blog that seems to be broadly sympathetic to the “alt” (that is, the “intellectually” racist) right, blogger Sofia complains that feminist bloggers – she cites me and Hugo Schwyzer – are talking about the blatant anti-feminism and misogyny of mass murderer Anders Breivik. “The mendacious corollary they are trying to construct,” she writes, falling into the purple prose Alt-Righters seem drawn to like flies on bullshit, “is that all those opposed to feminist principles must be in league with all sorts of unsavory radicals.”
As I’ve already noted, this is not actually true; Sofia is being, well, mendacious. Yes, I pointed out the similarities between Breivik’s noxious misogynistic beliefs and, well, the noxious misogynistic beliefs of an embarrassingly large number of antifeminists and MRAs. But at no point did I (or, for that matter, Hugo) suggest that these people supported his despicable actions.
After purporting to be shocked – shocked! – that anyone would connect Breivik with the antifeminists of the world, Sofia offers an appreciation of sorts for Breivik’s awful manifesto. Waxing pompous yet again, she writes:
[A]lthough his actions were cruel beyond belief, and committed by a delusional, psychopath driven by his delusions of political grandeur, there is lucidity and sense in much of what he writes. He never seemed to explicitly advocated for a genocide of Muslims within Europe, but superficially claimed that he just wanted to sustain European culture.
So, let’s weigh Breivik’s pros and cons here. CON: He murdered 76 people in cold blood, motivated by a hateful ideology. PRO: He didn’t explicitly call for actual genocide?
Here’s where it gets weird. Really weird.
I feel that Breivik is being tried for more than his cruelty within the feminist community. The fact that he belongs to the privileged group of the white male makes him hate-worthy along with every other privileged white male who might sympathize with his ideology, even if they don’t happen to be psychotic. Breivik exemplifies White Men, even though Osama Bin Laden to the very same liberal ideologues did not represent Every Muslim.
It’s another symptom of our culture that feels it is OK to hold white men to higher standards of political correctness, self-flagellation and martyrdom whilst simultaneously relentlessly berating and mocking them on a cultural level.
Yep, that’s right. We hate Breivik … because he’s a white dude.
She continues on in this vein:
The subtle manifestations of an anti-white male agenda could be expounded upon for some time, even in the sexual sphere. In porn, the genre of cuckolding usually involves black men fucking white women to the dismay of her white husband. Something tells me this wouldn’t be acceptable if a black man were to stand helplessly by while a white male was sexually coercive with a black female.
Somehow we started off talking about mass murder and ended up talking about … cuckolding porn?
What. The. Fuck?
The average European terrorist is a bit absurd in the first place. Lumping some many countries with different political situations together makes no sense.
Maybe, but in this context it’s still worth pointing out that Europe is, in fact, not awash in violence by some sinister Muslim “other.”
cynickal,
Cheers for that nonsense. I dislike intellectuals, and don’t claim to be one. I do try to be reasonable though, but I admit my patience is gone with the willfully moronic who probably DO fancy themselves intellectuals.
The white male = powerful is only partly true. The actual powermongers in our society, the type that the left fancies to have discretion over employment, education, military force etc. may well be disprorportionately white (and jewish), but the similarities with the average white man largely end there.
The average white man is the guy who’s more likely to get the shit kicked out of him by angry blacks who are, actually, pissed off at the powerful, insulated white man. Of course, don’t trouble yourself with such distinctions, they’re all white guys after all.
As far as media/political rhetoric leading to violence goes, I think even if I conceded that the “majority” can inflict more harm, it remains the case that the argument cuts all kinds of ways since it is in anybody’s hands to do some kind of grievous harm.
Anyway, enjoy your class, gender and race dogma. I’m out.
it remains the case that the argument cuts all kinds of ways since it is in anybody’s hands to do some kind of grievous harm.
ya, that was what you said the first time. repeating it isn’t responding. it’s just repeating yourself. are you sure you’re not just a racist?
actual powermongers in our society…disprorportionately white (and jewish)
guy who’s more likely to get the shit kicked out of him by angry blacks
ooookay, so you are just a racist. have fun taking your ball and going home, I guess?
Maybe, but in this context it’s still worth pointing out that Europe is, in fact, not awash in violence by some sinister Muslim “other.”
Absolutely, the huge majority of Muslims living in Europe are law-abiding citizens.
RW – Every time I’ve had the shit kicked out of me it was by white guys. I’m white, from a country where whites are a massive majority, so that makes total statistical sense.
Oddly enough it doesn’t make me hate and fear all white guys, because a much, much larger number of white guys (as well as guys of all other colours) have never kicked the shit out of me.
“Anyway, enjoy your class, gender and race dogma. I’m out.”
Yeah, don’t forget to go fuck yourself on the way out.
I’ve never heard of “alt-righters” before, but they seem to be just like regular right wing nutsos, but more willing to admit the fucked up shit they believe.
Same here, Graham. The people who complain about inter-race crime tend to ignore the fact that most violent crime is intra-racial. The people who have the most to fear from “angry blacks” are other black people. If RW finds black-on-white crime to be particularly intolerable for some reason, well, that’s his deal.
They needed to make up a name to distinguish their awful selves from an already pretty reprehensible group. That…says something.
A quote from a comment from someone calling themselves “Flavia” from that blog.
“It is irrelevant. Men will decide out (sic) fate. The question I am asking myself, is why the hell are men wasting all this time blogging, when they should be out cracking skulls. I’m serious. How much abuse are they willing to take? When we have a real revolution more women will fall in line. We always do.”
Is it just me, or is this woman basically saying she wants for women to have their skulls cracked if they don’t fall in line?
Fucking HELL. Maybe this woman should be locked up in a padded room for her own safety.
So now we got to “mind how you walk, mind how you talk” around white dudes? White dudes that are destroying the economics of the western world with their credit defaults and their austerity? White dudes who are killing tens of thousands of brown dudes and ladies and children every month? White dudes that have arrested and imprisioned a quarter of the brouwn population in this country?
Yeah, no bias there at all… god, hypocritical spineless self-hating liberals make me sick.
Face the truth, for fuck’s sake. After 9/11, while the conservatives were condemning the terrorist attacks as evil, liberal pukes like you were wondering “What have we done to provoke this?” When Muslims kill people in the name of Allah, it’s always hand-wringing and “Ooh, he’s not representative of the religion! stop being intolerant! We have to understand them! it’s our society’s fault!!!” But when a white European man goes on a killing spree, David and all of you have no problems whatsoever associating him with white people in general and MRAs in particular. Where’s your self-flagellation and apologism now? Freaking disgusting.
Graham, I am with you.
I live in Milwaukee. You know, the place where after some kids mugged a couple of people and trashed a convenience store, some Fox News creepo said Milwaukee was the kind of place where white liberals wouldn’t go after dark.
Well, I am a white liberal, and tonight, every night, I will be in Milwaukee after dark. In fact, I live about five blocks from the place where that even happened, and go by it -twice! every day. And still our house’s windows are not shot out every night (in fact, the only time someone broke our window, it was a drunken college student throwing a beer bottle through it. Dunno what race he was. Collegius Drunken Assholis, I think).
AND I do a majority of my professional work, when the White-Guy-Destroyed construction industry allows me, in the predominantly African-American parts of the city. In fact, four of my most successful projects were built on Martin Luther King, Jr. drive; in fact, are NAMED King Drive Commons 1, 2, 3, and 4.
And I have never experienced a beating at the hands of these black folks. They are my clients; some are my friends.
Anecdata, of course.
Oh good, Ion’s here. Well, I will then leave this thread to his stupid ministrations, and go do the work I should.
Ion, then you can join your buddy up there and go get fucked as well. If we disgust you so much, go fuck off back to some site that’ll make you happy and compare all those murdered kids to the fucking Hitler Youth.
Why don’t you STFU and go back to your wife and your “partner”… I think tonight it’s your turn to be the woman. Just like every night.
(sniveling geek David will put me on moderation for this but I honestly don’t care at this point)
Oh no, another mouth-breathing bottom-feeder on the internet is being disparaging about my personal life and my masculinity! Whatever shall I do, this has never happened before and it’s crushing me!
Yeah, nope, couldn’t type that and not laugh. That shit always makes me giggle, “Hurrr, yer a WOMAN!”, ooooh, devastating insult there sport. Totally original.
Not bad for funny, but do me a favor in the future and leave me out of your fantasies. Ick.
LOL, he banned me from the forum. Later, freaks.
Later, freaks.
GFY, stink-fisted dildobiscuit.
I didn’t have time to read all the comments, but I want to clear I am NOT condoning what Breivik did in ANY way. He is a murderer, and obviously that is wrong.
What I don’t find disagreeable is the notion that culturally homogeneous societies (NOT racially homogeneous) tend to function better than societies where you have two very identifiable nationalities that have a conflict of interests. This is why so many nationalistic movements occur, and we have the creation of new states through war. For context, it recently came out that every rapist who could be identified in the last five years (within Oslo) has been a man of foreign origin, often Muslim (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_rHFKRwv5Y&feature=player_embedded). The linked clip is from a Norwegian news station.
That obviously doesn’t mean “Every Muslim is a terrorist,” or “Muslims deserve to be killed.” It’s a factual statement that when ignored lead to disastrous social consequences. Undeniably there is an integration problem within Norwegian society, and you can attribute it to a number of things. So to argue that Muslims need to be assimilated better is an acceptable statement to make in light of those statistics. It’s stupid to extrapolate anything else from that or to call it hateful/racist or to think that every person who holds those beliefs is a radical.
The majority of Muslims, again to clarify, are not terrorists, or rapists. But when an overwhelming majority of rapists and terrorists are Muslims, then that indicates a serious problem. How can it not be? Alienation of minority groups in society never lead to any good, which is WHY it’s important to make cultural assimilation a priority. That has nothing to do with being anti-immigration or racist.. And I sincerely believe that Muslims would like to be integrated into Norwegian society instead of outside of it.
Chomsky hate the US and the West and he support anything against the West or the US. He was a supporter of Osama Ben Laden and he excused 9/11 and blamed the US, so I’m sure he would have excused a terrorist Muslim. And it ‘s not because he likes Muslims, he was a supporter of Slobodan Milosovic that wanted to exterminate the Muslims of Bosnia. So if the fans of Anders Breivik take power in Europe and start to exterminate Muslims, he will support that government too.
The guy is not to the Left, he’s in the left field.
I was away for a while and a bunch of comments piled up in the moderation queue, including one by the author of the blog post I wrote about in the OP. Scroll up to read!
RW, that was an epic racist flounce.
A quote from a comment from someone calling themselves “Flavia” from that blog.
“It is irrelevant. Men will decide out (sic) fate. The question I am asking myself, is why the hell are men wasting all this time blogging, when they should be out cracking skulls. I’m serious. How much abuse are they willing to take? When we have a real revolution more women will fall in line. We always do.”
Is it just me, or is this woman basically saying she wants for women to have their skulls cracked if they don’t fall in line?
Many women in the manosphere are jealous ugly women that constantly bitch against other women. And it’s possible that some of these women are in fact men.
The things racists tend to ignore is that assimilation does happen. We know this, because as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, xenophobes of every generation have bleated about the threat posed by immigrant cultures, and it’s never ever ever come true.
If white nationalists can’t handle their shit and end up shooting a bunch of people, that’s not an immigrant problem, that’s a white nationalist problem. You take care of it by fixing your white nationalists, not fixing your immigrants.
the notion that culturally homogeneous societies (NOT racially homogeneous) tend to function better than societies where you have two very identifiable nationalities that have a conflict of interests.
This is impossible to define -better? by whose yardstick?- and the idea that there are only two opposing nationalities is imaginary.
Real life is not so simple, and not so bi-directional. Real life is messier, and it is MY belief that a culture that is able to absorb new influences and new citizens, and be flexible in adapting, will be much better suited to modern life, where people are much more mobile. America professed this belief, but has mostly fallen short.
In fact, as the internet continues to break down barriers, successful societies will learn to adapt. America is again not doing well in this regard.
And that bothers quite a few people, who would prefer barriers and segregation. Too bad for them, but reacting by shooting up a bunch of teenagers is not a reasonable response, and the thinking that led to a man believing it was is abhorrent, no matter how many coats of paint you put on it, regardless of using flattering lighting and vaseline on the lens to make it appear softer.
But when an overwhelming majority of rapists and terrorists are Muslims
This has been pointed out to be false, previously in the thread.
Alienation of minority groups in society never lead to any good,
No, it doesn’t and right wing or racist groups are the source of most of that alienation. So your solution is to homogenize every country? Have you ever read The Lathe Of Heaven?