Earlier today I wrote about some Men’s Rights Redditors who endorsed the views of Norwegian shooter Anders Breivik – without knowing that the views they were endorsing were his. But others in the manosphere have stepped up to defend Breivik’s manifesto (if not his actions) plainly and explicitly, in full knowledge of just whose ideas they are endorsing.
On In Mala Fide, blogger Ferdinand Bardamu praises Breivik’s “lucidity,” and blames his murderous actions on the evils of a too-liberal society:
[A]nother madman with a sensible manifesto. Another completely rational, intelligent man driven to murderous insanity. And once again, society has zero introspection in regards to its profound ability to turn thoughtful men into lunatic butchers. …
He’s not being sarcastic here. He continues:
That makes HOW many rage killers in the past five years alone? And not just transparent headcases like Jared Loughner or George Sodini, but ordinary men like Pekka-Eric Auvinen or Joe Stack who simply weren’t going to take it anymore. No one bothers to ask WHY all these men suddenly decide to pick up a gun and start shooting people – they’re all written off as crazies. Or the rage killings are blamed on overly permissive gun laws …
Here’s an idea – sick societies produce sick individuals who do sick things. Anders Breivin [sic] murdered nearly a hundred teens (not children, TEENS – they were at a summer camp for young adults) and must pay the price, but the blood of those teens is ultimately on the hands of the society that spat him forth. He is the bastard son of a masochistic, degenerate, rootless world that pisses on its traditions and heritage to elevate perversity, mindless consumerism and ethnic self-hatred to the highest of virtues.
(Bolded text in original.) That final reference to “ethnic self-hatred” seems to be Bardamu’s euphemistic way of complaining that not enough white people are white supremacists.
Then he adds this repulsive final thought on Breivik’s victims:
[S]top acting so fucking shocked that Breivin murdered “children.” As William Rome pointed out, it’s been de rigeur for all of human history for political revolutionaries to kill the heirs of their enemies alongside the enemies themselves, to ensure that the old system would stay dead and buried. … That doesn’t make what he did excusable, but it does make it understandable.
Meanwhile, Chuck of Gucci Little Piggy offers what appears to be a somewhat more restrained, if ultimately more puzzling, defense of Breivik’s manifesto – or at least that portion of the manifesto that Breivik borrowed from the writings of far-right blogger Fjordman.
Chuck complains that Hugo Schwyzer and I are “try[ing] to blame Breivik on MRAs” in our recent posts showing the similarities between Breivik’s ideas and those of many MRAs. Never mind that neither Hugo nor I referred to Breivik as an MRA. I described him as an antifeminist, which is an undeniable fact, whose views are “strikingly similar to many MRAs.” (Emphasis added.) Hugo stated explicitly that he didn’t blame the MRM directly for Breivik’s actions, noting that “[m]ost MRAs – perhaps almost all – reject violence and mass murder as a political tactic.”
Evidently Chuck feels that to even mention the MRM in conjunction with Breivik is some sort of egregious smear, especially since the shooter spent “only” 23 pages of his manifesto writing explicitly about feminism.
Weirdly, after trying to draw a sharp line between Breivik and the MRM, Chuck goes on to apparently endorse Breivik’s (and Fjordman’s) notions about the ways in which feminism “greased the wheels to allow Islam into his country.” The rest of Chuck’s post elaborates on, and seems to fully endorse, Breivik’s/Fjordman’s argument that feminism’s “emasculation of Western men has taken the organic policing mechanism out of the hands of men in society” and thus rendered Western society helpless before the Islamic cultural invaders.
I’ve asked Chuck to clarify if this is indeed what he means to convey in his post. If so, I can only say: If you’re trying to draw a distinction between your ideas and the ideas of a murderous terrorist, you don’t really advance your case by agreeing with the central thrust of these ideas pretty much wholeheartedly.
GL Piggy
I’m probably the oldest poster here and have no problem with Ami’s style of writing. Language evolves. If you’d like we could start writing in Shakespearean english. I have no doubt there are posters here who could leave you confused.
NWOslave.
You should be ashamed, and are a disgusting human being. If I could even call you that. After 911 did you post on blogs that the U.S deserved what it got? I’d bet you did.
Pick yourself up and go live in Saudi Arabia, come back in twelve months with some perspective o.k? Go live for awhile in a country where women have no rights, not even the right to drive a car and then come back and tell us how great it was.
Have you even been out of the U.S? Besides perhaps an all inclusive resort? Ignorance is not an excuse. Do you have any female friends? If you did you could try traveling to Russia or the Baltic’s and take note on how she is treated. Chances are you would enjoy it because again you are a vile human.
“since most here think i’m a dick anyway, might as go all the way to the hilt. would you at least think about writing comments using proper english and grammar? this isn’t twitter or text. your style which helps you write faster slows down everyone who is trying to read it.”
You know, many, many people here have said that. And almost all of them have since taken it back 😛
Look at GLPiggy trying to change the conversation to religious intolerance and racism.
That’s because it will be easier than trying to explain how he can say in this very thread “One can easily see elements of truth in the manifesto” and imply that his MRA brain approves of Breivik’s actions, at the same time as indignantly accusing Dave of maligning him.
NOWslave is doing exactly what I described in my last post. It’s both scary and pitiable.
This worthless piece of garbage terrorist murderer Breivik had no “good points”. All he had was a series of falsehoods and delusions that reinforced his fantasy of being an oppressed person and fed directly into his actions.
So yeah, I can see how the MRAs would like some of what he has to say. Vile little bullies all, just looking for some way to paint themselves as heroes instead of the maggoty crapsacks they are.
I just want to say that now, not only is NWO no longer simply not denying that Breivik was a horrible person, but has now essentially given him his blessing. Lovely. Is this the guy you want on your side, Piggy?
MRAs = KKK just with a special emphasis on women.
NWO this will change nothing for father’s rights, western govermnents no longer negotiate with terrorists.
This thread needs more mockery and bacon popcorn.
and I hope NWO treads on a Lego.
Bostonian– how could you say such an insulting thing?!? At least the KKK has organizational skills.
This is one were-basenji who has indeed come around on the subject of Ami’s idiosyncratic writing style. What she’s done is invented her own dialect of English, an accomplishment that only adds to her awesomeness. XD
G.L. Piggy:
RE: Islamic immigration, I honestly don’t care. The boogeyman of “they’ll become the majority” doesn’t much bother me. Anti-immigrant sentiment of this type is floated about for any major wave of immigration– at least, it certainly is in the USA. (anti-Irish, anti-Italian, anti-Jewish, anti-Chinese, anti-Mexican…) Immigrants will assimilate some and change their surrounding culture some, and the world will go on, fueled by the intercultural exchange, just the way it always has.
Ami and Bee:
I think I’d have accepted them just not talking about him. MRAs don’t have to denounce him, but if they TALK ABOUT HIM, then they should either denounce him or do introspective discussion about what he’s saying, what he did, what it means that there are parts to his manifesto that they agree with, and whether the shared ideology is actively violent or not. Which… doesn’t really seem to be the case.
Johnny Pez, I’m also in the camp of people who have no problems understanding Ami at all. And this is from someone who cannot send a text message without all the spelling, punctuation and grammar being standard correct in it.
Ami: I don’t need MRAs, or the MRM to denounce him. But when I see individuals espousing the idea that he was justified, and others agreeing with them… I have to conclude they do think what he did wasn’t as bad as all that.
They say they don’t think people should do it… but if you don’t agree with us, don’t be surprised when this happens.
Nice place you got here, be a shame if something were to happen to it.
G.L. PIggy: Just to float this out there, how do most of you feel about the prospects of unchecked Islamic immigration into Western Europe? I mean, it is only a matter of time before Muslims become the majority in Western countries.
Oh, FFS. I Don’t Care. Why? Because they aren’t going to bring about the end of the world as we know it. People like Brievert, who are (yanno, killing people) are the one’s threatening the way we live.
They are a minority. A really small minority. Even if they weren’t they are people. Not ciphers, not horrors shambling on the earth despoiling all they touch. People.
Just like women.
Kave: Tempt me not to the ways of archaic speech, lest I chuse to ingayje thee in the most carefull, and delycat spelings, that we might be most clere and exacting in our discursions. The ways of spekeing are those most like bibabul liqueors, they refresh the verimost souls of man and embolden the whyts, increasing the vigour of mynde, the strenth of wynde, and the most meticulational thinking; being that which is known to dilineate the order of humanity from that of beasts,they no more able to reason than that a plouwman might draw the share down the furrow even so much as a rod’s distance, no less shude we then engage us in that saym exactement when we write; all owre thought must needs be displayced in order, likes that unto the ways of the sergeants-major when they ordinate the camp at the close of a marche. In this way is the ordinarie of simplist reason established in; clear lines; ea. to its proper station; there shall then the the chamber-pots be placed on one side and the messes on the other, lest odure intrude, and be seethed with the meats:in such a manner to is the the structure of the most exemplry writings built.
@Pecunium I actually understood that! 😀 It was fun xD
And yus… the ones that go “we dun agree w/ what he did, but he has points, and if you keep pushing us… bad things will happen” sound VERY MUCH to me like protection money things : Threats that OTHER ppl will do you harm :
VoiP says to me:
“And just to float this out there, have you stopped beating your wife?”
I’m not Muslim so what do you think. But on the real, that was a lame comeback on your part. You should realize by now that using your virtual voice to attack the personal life of someone you only know virtual things about is mostly ineffective and idiotic. Because either I don’t have a wife and wouldn’t beat one if I did have one which leaves me sort of cringing on your behalf for the bad attempt at a cut down, or I do have a wife that I beat the shit out of all the time but I pretend that I don’t without you really knowing whether I do or not.
OK, next thread needs to be a conversation entirely between Ami and Archaic Pecunium 🙂
“I’m not muslim so what do you think”
That was truly, breathlessly offensive. All muslim people beat their wives har har har! White people and other men of color would NEVER do such a thing. Think before you open your mouth* please.
Also, the point of VoiP’s question was to be loaded and offensive, just like you’re question about “unchecked islamic immigration” was loaded and offensive. I very much doubt VoiP was actually commenting on your relationship status and whether or not you were an abusive partner. And yet you still managed to come across as completely vile. Congrats.
*I mean mouth in a figurative sense, obviously.
[quote]NWO this will change nothing for father’s rights, western govermnents no longer negotiate with terrorists.[/quote]
The ones with strong right wings (Typo’d as white; Irony, thou dost infest my keyboard with your ferrous deliciousness) will say he’s not a terrorist, because he’s white, though.
Ami: The Royal Assassins are supposed to be gifted.
“That was truly, breathlessly offensive. All muslim people beat their wives har har har! White people and other men of color would NEVER do such a thing. Think before you open your mouth* please.”
Oh are you outraged now? You’ve got to be kidding me. “All MRAs beat their wives har har har” I could easily say that what VoiP said to me was “breathlessly offensive”, but I’m not a fucking baby like that. He was trying to come at me with his wit or so I shot back at him.
But just in case you’re wondering about the treatment of women among Norway’s Islamic population:
*Every rape that occurred in Oslo within the past five years was committed by “non-Western” men.*
Yes I am outraged now. No I’m not kidding you. What VoiP said to you was actually not meant to be taken personally at all. He was parroting a common example of a loaded question to draw attention to the fact that the question that you asked was indeed loaded. It was a rhetorical question which you met with an extremely offensive bigoted “joke”. So yes, you are in fact being a fucking baby like that.
*Every rape that occurred in Oslo within the past five years was committed by “non-Western” men.*
I’m taking that with a heaping helping of salt. Give me a good source that is not a youtube video and I’ll consider if it has merit. I highly suspect that it does not.
G.L. Piggy: You sure sound offended.
What VOIP was doing was showing that you were, with the question you asked, setting up a many questions fallacy
G.L. PIggy: In respsonse to your rape claims:
If one leading expert is to be believed, the sharp rise in the number of rapes in this over the last 5 years is largely attributable to a group of unemployed and alienated immigrants. ‘Over the last 5-10 years there has an increasing tendency to marginalise and alienate immigrants,’ says Professor Flemming Balvig, a criminologist at Copenhagen University. ‘As a result, many second generation immigrants have reacted against this through various types of criminal activity, including rape.’
Not because they are muslim, per se.
Here is a more detailed breakdown, over several years, of rapes in Norway
Some of the highlights:
Sexual crimes in Norway
These are total number of sexual offenses for the past decade. As you can see, there was a jump in 1996, from 2,244 to 3,518, followed by a general decline until 2000 and then an upwards clime back up. The current sexual crime rate for 2005 is below the 1996 level.
The table shows that the highest percentage of rapes are in the northern counties (Nordland, Troms Romsa and Finnmark), though those counties have a very low percentage of immigrants. Oslo is just above the national average, with 0.8 sexual crimes per 1000 residents though it has a disproportionate amount of non-Western immigrants.
Rapists
According to the report, most rapists are not Norwegian. Forty of the rapists are Norwegians, which is well below their percent in the general city population.
Region Percent
Norway 36.4%
Europe 10.9%
America 2.7%
Africa 19.1%
Asia 10%
So right away there seems to be some discrepancies between the published data, and that news report.
This is how the analysis closes:
My main conclusions, though, are:
(1) There is no correlation country-wide between immigrants and rapes
(2) Northern Norway is overrepresented in rape statistics (up to twice the national average)
(3) Norway is much safer than Iceland
(4) In Oslo, ethnic Norwegians are underrepresented, both among rapists and rape victims
(5) In Oslo, asylum seekers are overrepresented among rapists
(6) In Oslo, immigrant women are much more likely to be victims of rape
Middle East 20.9%