Guys,
So the fellows over at MGTOWforums were pondering just why it is that there are so few women engineers. There were a number of theories advanced to explain this gender imbalance – women are “crap at math,” “their [sic] just too stupid,”“you can’t build a bridge with ‘feelings.’” (Snap!)
But it was shade47 who offered the most convincing theory. It all has to do with incentives:
Im an engineer myself and in my opinion women could be good engineers if they wanted to be but its a hard sell since they can make money by lieing on their backs and shitting out bastards. …
i dont think women above a five in looks would have the patients [sic] to deal with the hardship of actually studying when she knows that shell end up getting knocked up or married and stop working in approximately 5 years after graduation.
Ladies, focus on your womb turds and leave engineering to the geniuses who don’t know the difference between “patience” and “patients.”
@Marc:
“The result of this will be if I am either forced to acknowledge that the radical feminists (the really radical variant like Solanas) are right or if I will be convinced that feminism as a whole is wrong.”
No, you could just be convinced that some aspects are right and others are wrong. It’s actually quite simple. Newton was into alchemy, doesn’t mean his physics wasn’t good.
“I firmly think the central dogma of mainstream-feminism, that rape is about power and a cultural thing and that “we just have to teach men not to rape” is wrong.”
What do you think it is, exactly? I’m gonna put words in your mouth, but do you think rape is all and only about sex, and men are uncontrollable sexual beasts that can’t help but rape pretty ladies that walk by? What do you think rape is about? (Bait bait bait the troll)
“no we dont need women in engineering either because their just too stupid.”
no we dont need mras in english either because their just too stupid to USE PROPER GRAMMAR AND SPELLING.
It goes both ways, MRAs.
“So if you think that women can do everything else as well as men you just have f*cking proven that the world would be better off without men.”
I think that my dog can be just as companionable as cats, so I have just fucking proven that the world would be better off without cats.
I think that vitamin-loaded Ensure shakes are just as nutritious as regular food, so I have just fucking proven that the world would be better off without any other form of food.
…See how that “logic” works?
“Yes, and YOU call me the troll here!?”
Sure. That’s what makes poking you so much gosh darn fun!
What’s funny is that my first appearance on Manboobz was disagreeing w/ everybody xD (the Australian guy who stopped traffic) and nobody thought me a troll xD Even w/ the weird way I talk…
but then again, I didn’t call ppl names, or post a billion times w/ a billion different arguments… or tack on strawmen or other beliefs on ppl b/c they didn’t agree w/ one thing I said or etc xD
*sigh*
What do you think the chances are of Marc not bothering saying what he thinks rape is, only what it isn’t? My magic eight ball says “chances are good.”
This is at least one red flag to spot a troll. A troll will refuse to say what zie thinks, even when asked point blank. It’s much easier to argue when you are constantly making the other party justify their beliefs, dismissing every argument with a hand-wave. Much harder to try to convince people you are right.
Since when did the underlying cause of rape become the central dogma of mainstream feminism?
I gave up science for prostitution. Come to think of it, I gave it pretty early. I think it was when I was in third grade. Math is hard. Fuck it. I’ll just become a whore.
I have always seen Ami as French for friend, so I always read her name as “friend”.
@Nobinayamu:
Since Marc decided that all men were genetically rapists, and if feminism agrees, it’s alright. Otherwise feminism is wrong.
No, you could just be convinced that some aspects are right and others are wrong. It’s actually quite simple. Newton was into alchemy, doesn’t mean his physics wasn’t good.
Well, it’s one of the central dogmas!
What do you think it is, exactly? I’m gonna put words in your mouth, but do you think rape is all and only about sex, and men are uncontrollable sexual beasts that can’t help but rape pretty ladies that walk by? What do you think rape is about?
I think that some humans are uncontrollable sex beasts for biological reasons and these humans happen to be overwhelmingly men. I think that violent rapes where the victims die are in most of the cases a result of biologically determined uncontrollable sexual urges. People who do these types of crimes I think mostly can’t help but rape.
I don’t say that somebody with very strong plain vanilla sex drive is the driven to become a rapist, but someone who is aroused by violent sex or has deviant sexual interest in children.
(Bait bait bait the troll)
Again you call everyone who disagrees with you a troll… and your last post with the “2 + 0 = ” makes absolutely no sense.
Since Marc decided that all men were genetically rapists, and if feminism agrees, it’s alright. Otherwise feminism is wrong.
No, I haven’t said that.
I just don’t believe that rape is entirely a cultural phenomenon. I think this is clearly wrong.
I think that it will never happen that the crime rate for sex offenses for men and women will become similar.
This is a goal you will not achieve, ever.
What do you think the chances are of Marc not bothering saying what he thinks rape is, only what it isn’t?
Why is that a bad way to argue? It’s not less honest that you say what you don’t believe instead to say what you believe, it just shows you’re flexible and you are in the process of forming an opinion.
Disagreeing with everyone doesn’t mean you’re “flexible,” except in the sense of “wow, if he got his head that far up there, he sure must be flexible.”
@Marc:
“Well, it’s one of the central dogmas!”
No, the central dogma of Feminism is essentially that no person should be discriminated against based on gender.
“and your last post with the “2 + 0 = ” makes absolutely no sense.”
Basically you are pointing at the people who deserve to be called trolls, then say it generalizes to everyone who disagrees. But of course we disagree with each other, it just isn’t at the forefront when we have to defend against accusations that central to feminism is the idea that all men are rapists.
“the rest”
Well, thanks for proving my magic eight ball wrong, I guess… But really… you call us misandric. You actually do hate men, and you are convinced that (mostly) men are “uncontrollable sex beasts.” News flash; when (nearly all) men see a pretty lady, they somehow manage to not rape. Amazing.
@Marc:
“Why is that a bad way to argue? It’s not less honest that you say what you don’t believe instead to say what you believe, it just shows you’re flexible and you are in the process of forming an opinion.”
This is really the first time I recall you answering a “what it is” question. Essentially you can say whatever you want to disagree with someone, and you are free to disagree on dishonest terms. When the ball is in your court, however, suddenly there’s no backing out. You have to justify your opinions on its own merits, and frankly I’d like to see your justification of how you know rapists are “uncontrollable sex beasts.”
“I just don’t believe that rape is entirely a cultural phenomenon. I think this is clearly wrong.”
Of course it isn’t the case that genetics don’t play any role. If nobody had the urge to have sex, it is likely that no one would rape either. But that’s a far cry from saying sexuality plays an important role, or even a significant one. The stereotype is that guys who rape “just can’t help it” and go crazy until they can force their dick into someone, but this just isn’t the case. Like many people have said, a lot of rape cases involve a guy who didn’t think what he did was rape, or thought the “no” meant “yes,” or something else. Not to mention prison rape, where the act is nearly nothing about sex, and everything about power.
Wait a minute, wait a minute…
The “central dogma” of mainstream feminism is what causes rape AND the goal of feminists is that men and women commit an equal number of sexual assaults?
What the fuck?
The “central dogma” of mainstream feminism is what causes rape AND the goal of feminists is that men and women commit an equal number of sexual assaults?
No. Men are more likely to be sex offenders than women. MUCH more likely, extremely much more likely.
There are different possible explanations for this. One is that it’s entirely cultural that this difference exist and if we would live in a “better” culture, we would see how the (sex-)crime rate for males would steadily drop and one day they would match the crime rate females.
I think that this scenario is totally unrealistic and that it is wrong to think that the difference in offending has nothing to do with biological reasons.
Here’s some cooking I did my senior year. Marc’s sort of right, though; the remedial chemistry class he took as a high-school sophomore is rather like cooking.
“So could you please give me a sane reason, why it wouldn’t be better if men would just vanish from the earth?”
‘Cuz men are people too?
“I don’t say that somebody with very strong plain vanilla sex drive is the driven to become a rapist, but someone who is aroused by violent sex or has deviant sexual interest in children.”
I’m gonna leave the pedos alone, because that’s something I know nothing about. But you do know there’s a group of people who are “aroused by violent sex” and manage to do it consensually with people who are of a legal age to have sex?
My last comment would have been better with quotation marks and italics. As it is, the wording is wonky and the meaning, a bit less than clear. Let me try again:
I don’t think that anyone is arguing that men don’t commit sexual assault more than women. I don’t think that anyone has argued that there are absolutely no biological reasons that rapists rape. And I’m not sure why it matters why people, men or women, commit sexual response; at least not in the abstract.
Your argument is absurd on its face. And wildly offensive. The issue is not whether or not more men commit rape and sexual assault. Your obscene call for the extinction of men based on your flawed assumptions hardly deserves the level of honest argument you’ve received. But continuing in that vein: whether or not men commit the majority of sexual crimes is irrelevant. The only thing that could a relevant issue is if MOST men committed rape and/or sexual assault.
Most men do not.
I’ve always wondered why STEM majors are considered by a wide swath of the populace to be the most useful/important majors. An undergrad degree in math and an undergrad degree in English both fail to offer a clear career path; grad school is your best bet. Now, engineers can go out and get a good job with just their undergrad degree, but so can teachers. Why do we pretend that STEM majors are so much better?
“I think that some humans are uncontrollable sex beasts for biological reasons and these humans happen to be overwhelmingly men. I think that violent rapes where the victims die are in most of the cases a result of biologically determined uncontrollable sexual urges. People who do these types of crimes I think mostly can’t help but rape.
I don’t say that somebody with very strong plain vanilla sex drive is the driven to become a rapist, but someone who is aroused by violent sex or has deviant sexual interest in children.”
Marc: You’re totally welcome — as anyone is, I suppose — to leap to some giant conclusion about something you know little about, but do you know anything about psychopathy? Empathy/lack of empathy in inmates? Development of sociopathy from early childhood on?
I’m definitely no expert in any of the above, but then neither am I bothering people on this thread with my radical new solution to rape. You brought up Levi Bellfield earlier — another criminal I’ve never heard of. He’s described in British papers as a sexual predator who targeted thin young blondes as young as 13, liked when they dressed as schoolgirls, drugged them when they wouldn’t come willingly, ran them over when they ignored him, and who also bragged about his steroid-enhanced weightlifting routine. If you have studied psychopathy, know what he did, and still honestly want to argue that he is an example of some guy with uncontrollable sex urges, totally untouched by cultural messages, and that the proper response to his actions is to ensure the demise of men over the next 100 years — that’s your deal, I guess. I suspect, however, that not only was what he did and who he is strongly influenced by society, but also that I have no idea what I’m talking about and am in no place to come up with a big-ass solution involving gender-selective abortions over several decades.
Do you get what I’m saying, Marc?
Wow. Guys, in case you missed it, Marc’s been arguing that we get rid of all teh mens in the Don’t Thank Heaven for Little Girls thread too. Including this gem:
“How do you know in advance as a parent that you don’t get one of these rapist as son? You can’t know. So getting a male is like getting a disabled child (after all, a whole chromosome is missing) who is a potential rapist, has an increased chance for criminal behavior and a reduced life expectancy. But you can’t abort it like a disabled child. Explain me that!”
It gets even crazier from there.
“And because of the demographic effects I would advocate a reduction for child benefit payments for males.
“That would be Phase 1.
“We are not talking about full-blown genocide, nobody thinks it would be realistic to do such a thing. We can just talk about Phase 1 now… later, we will see.”
Marc actually has a plan to get rid of his sex in a slow, humane manner. I think this comment is worthy of its own post.
@Holly:
He couldn’t possibly be… Good god… I refuse to believe he’s doing anything but saying what he thinks we all believe, and waiting for someone to say “alright, Marc, we know you’re one of us now. Here’s the secret women world-domination site where we detail our plan for the destruction of MANkind.”
I refuse to believe he is actually this fucked up.
Addition:
Pecunium believes with me, and he asked this question and got this response:
“Do you really believe that?
[ ]Yes
[ ]No
[X]Exactly as much as anything else I argue here for.”
So yeah, Marc has already admitted to taking the piss with us in the past, therefore his answer means “yeah, I don’t believe any of this crap at all. You all do.”