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A man and an old lady get in an elevator

Those "sweet" old ladies are anything but.

Another elevator joke for you all:

So Pierce Harlan of the False Rape Society blog gets into an elevator ….

Well, OK, not a joke. In his latest post, Harlan offers a reaction, of sorts, to the whole atheist elevator incident –- by relating an anecdote of a recent elevator experience of his own.

EDITED TO ADD: Harlan has now deleted the post in question. It can still be seen, at least for now, in Google’s cache of the original page, which you can find here. Grab screenshots! Back to the story:

Seems he was riding a hotel elevator with a sweet old lady. Neither one said anything to the other (Harlan apparently hates talking to sweet old ladies) but when he got off the elevator – well, let’s let him explain:

I glanced back at her and saw that … she was immobilized with fear. In fact, she was practically cowering in the corner. Her eyes couldn’t have been wider if I had whipped out my dick and lathered it up with Grey Poupon.  Hers was the face of utter, unbridled fear, and she was watching me like the scardest of scared deer. She said not a word but her demeanor practically pleaded, “Please don’t rape me, sir!”

Now, Harlan seems to have what you might call a taste for overstatement. He describes feminists as “screeching banshees” and “extremist loons allied with the sexual grievance industry.” I doubt he could describe a chicken-salad sandwich without resorting to angry hyperbole. (That was a little bit of overstatement on my part.) But let’s just assume that there is at least a kernel of truth here: this woman was creeped out by Harlan.

So what was Harlan’s response to this woman’s obvious discomfort?

 [N]o one has more empathy for his fellow human beings than I do. The first thought that came to my mind in response to the obvious fear on the face of this pathetic, sweet looking, older woman — who probably never hurt anyone in her entire life — was fuck you!

Obviously we are supposed to ask just what it was that drove Harlan – the self-described world’s most empathetic man – to say something so seemingly callous? Well, as is usually the case with those we write about here, it all comes back to man-hating ladies and their male allies, with their evil insistence on sexual assault education (sorry, “indoctrination”) and their callous demands to “’take back the night,’ although the night has always been theirs.”(I don’t quite know what that means, but it sure sounds selfish of these women to want a whole extra night just for themselves.)

Ours is, Harlan says, “a culture marked by crass, hysterical fear-mongering about male sexual predation and violence.” (Evidently some guys haven’t gotten the memo on this.)

But all this evil misandry seems to have left poor Mr. Harlan in an uncharitable mood towards, well, almost everyone — though he directs his worst opprobrium at sweet old ladies.

Fuck them all. The paranoia of the woman in the elevator is her problem, not mine. Ironically, the elevator, the hotel itself, the car she rode in and the roads she rode on to get to the hotel were all undoubtedly conceived, designed, and built by men — men she’d fear just as much as me if they were standing in that elevator with her. I felt no guilt or shame or bewilderment over the fact that she fears me because of my birth class. Let her fear me. I can’t change it, and I have too much to do to worry about it.

And maybe, just maybe, it’s good that some people fear us. Maybe we should exult in the power we wield by reason of their paranoia. One thing I know: I will never do anything to alleviate their paranoia. In fact, I’m just fine with it, thank you very much. If someday, my riding the elevator causes some old woman to have a heart attack, that, too, is not my problem.  Blame it on a culture that I don’t approve of. Blame on sweet looking, older women who give in to the paranoia.

Truly the world’s most empathetic man.

Harlan goes on to talk briefly about the Rebecca Watson elevator incident. Needless to say, he adds nothing interesting to the discussion.

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NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@mediumdave

Please don’t bother with any explanations, I was born guilty. It’s a trap I can never escape.

Raoul
Raoul
9 years ago

@NWOs “@Shora, Kafka-trapping is the ideology of feminism. I was born a straight, white man. I was born guilty of privilege.”

What is really amusing is that you never make clear what Kafka-trapping has to do with the writing or ideas of Kafka.

Makes you come off as either a pretentious snot or as someone who’s never read Kafka. Maybe both.

Shora
9 years ago

I’m particularly miffed because I ANSWERED his “gotcha!” question with a blog post of mine I had written on that subject weeks ago! But I insulted him, so too bad! No debate! I’m going to go ahead and agree with Dave on the lazy, cowardly fool assessment.

NWO, having seen your comments here and on NSWATM, and reading your comment above, I can only conclude that you are willfully misunderstanding the stances of a wide variety of feminists in order to feed your already bloated martyr complex.

Fatman
Fatman
9 years ago

“Maybe we should exult in the power we wield by reason of their paranoia. One thing I know: I will never do anything to alleviate their paranoia. In fact, I’m just fine with it, thank you very much. If someday, my riding the elevator causes some old woman to have a heart attack, that, too, is not my problem.”

This is the part I found hardest to understand. If you can, with a few gestures alleviate the fears of another human being and allow that person to relax, and at the same time spare yourself the sort of anger expressed Pierce Harlan, why would you not? It seems like a win win situation.

It is not particularly difficult to diffuse tense situations like that. Why would one want to increase the tension?

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@mediumdave

I can’t win in the Kafka-trap.

By giving one group victim status and another group privilege status, we already have a victim and an oppressor. That can never change. It’s a trap from which there is no escape. Unless the starting point is neutrality there is no way to win.

I’ve already conceded. I was born guilty of being an oppressor.

mediumdave
mediumdave
9 years ago

Why would one want to increase the tension?

That you are asking this question indicates that you’re a reasonable person, capable of empathy. If you were an arrogant bully (I’m just sayin’) who enjoys provoking fear in persons more vulnerable than yourself, you’d understand already.

OK, Slavey, I’ll make it even simpler: The Kafka bit is a red herring. There were no accusations against Mr. Harlan (or any group he belongs to) in my comment at FRS… he made a statement that I disagreed with, and I explained why I disagreed. In response, he freaked out. That is all that happened.

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I’ve already conceded. I was born guilty of being an oppressor.

Don’t sell yourself short, NWO. You’ve worked damn hard at it.

(And other men haven’t. See how we don’t call them oppressors on this blog? Ain’t no one giving David, or Dave, or Kirby, or Johnny, or Pecunium… et al shit for being male.)

Pierce Harlan
9 years ago

Yes, Medium Dave, I’m a lazy, cowardly fool. And Poster I’m a great big pansy. And Shora, you’re right, I’m a screaming, flailing manchild.

Wow.

Ya know, I admitted that I might have overreacted about the woman on the elevator. I actually agreed with screeching banshee Shora. The rest of the points I couldn’t possibly debate because they made no sense. But see, I am wrong from time to time. I am removing the post because it’s a distraction to our our mission.

Next time, Mr. Futrelle, why don’t you make fun of us for our advocacy in attacking Fed.R.Evid. 413, which even Joe Biden found repugnant. Or for taking issue with the Dept. of Education’s April 4 directive. Or for posting stories that prompt men and boys to write to us telling us they didn’t commit suicide because of our site.

P.S. And you really don’t understand what “thus endeth the debate” means, Mr. Futrelle? Weren’t you a financial writer for a big magazine at one time? How the hell did you get so loony?

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@Shora
“NWO, having seen your comments here and on NSWATM, and reading your comment above, I can only conclude that you are willfully misunderstanding the stances of a wide variety of feminists in order to feed your already bloated martyr complex.”

The ideology of feminism is blameless and correct due to my misunderstanding of the wide variety of feminists. Woot. I’m guilty. Plus i have a martyr complex, further trapping me. And round and round the circular logic goes. YAHTZEE!

speedlines
speedlines
9 years ago

Oh, Subbie, there’s a brand new thread about underage girls just waiting for your comments now. Fetch, boy!

Molly Ren
9 years ago

I think the problem NWOslave is having is what was mentioned on What About Teh Menz a few weeks back, about how a lot of people use the word “privilege” as if it meant “asshole”. I’ve also seen articles with different takes on the amount of personal responsibility involved, from about how “everyone’s a little bit racist” and others talking about how privilege/oppression should be viewed as something bigger than something an individual has, so as to avoid turning individual people into villains.

mediumdave
mediumdave
9 years ago

Yes, Medium Dave, I’m a lazy, cowardly fool. And Poster I’m a great big pansy. And Shora, you’re right, I’m a screaming, flailing manchild.

And you couldn’t stick the flounce!

Well, Mr. Harlan, if you want to change my judgement of you, then unban me and let me comment on FRS. I’m saying what I have to say here because you left me no choice.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@Holly Pervocracy

So the few men who agree 100% with you are good, but the legions of men who don’t are bad oppressors. Seems like you have victim status and those who disagree have oppressor status. YAHTZEE!

Dontcha just hate discordance in the echo chamber?

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@mediumdave

Leaving without total agreement = flounce.

Guilty as charged!

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

So the few men who agree 100% with you are good, but the legions of men who don’t are bad oppressors. Seems like you have victim status and those who disagree have oppressor status. YAHTZEE!

It’s sad but true; I like men that are nice to me, and dislike men that are mean to me.

I’m super unfair.

Molly Ren
9 years ago

“legions of men”

I wouldn’t necessarily say men who *weren’t* feminists were the majority of men. There seems to be an awful lot of *both* feminists and non-feminists about in the world…

RobbiRobbi
RobbiRobbi
9 years ago

NWO,

For many feminists, the starting point is neutrality, most of us believe men and women really aren’t that different. Then we look at the world around us and see that all people are not treated equally, and that huge assumptions based on gender are commonplace, which is unfair. By calling out “privilege”, feminists are attempting to describe reality, the very real situations in which double standards give women the short end of the stick. We’re not saying all women are victims and all men are oppressors for ever ever ever, we’re only saying that right now, this is what’s happening and here’s what needs to change.

Which is why most feminists have some male friends or boyfriends that they care about, not because they constants apologize for being male, but just because they make some effort to be decent human beings.

I can think of a few feminists that I dislike because they the tend to take an “all women, all men, ever ever ever” approach to feminism, which is simplistic and wrong, and denies the possibility of change. So I avoid them, which is easy, because they’re pretty rare.

mediumdave
mediumdave
9 years ago

*sigh* NWOslave, It was Mr. Harlan who was flouncing, not you. Are you actually reading what I write? Slow down, dude. It isn’t all about you.

Shora
9 years ago

Pierce: You seriously invited people from a dissenting blog onto your blog for a debate, engaged in conduct unbecoming of actual, intelligent, rigorous, good-faith debate, complained when the people you insulted responded in turn, and then deleted the whole thing in a fit of pique. And then came BACK to the blog where you issued the challenge you were unable to follow through with, and insulted the commenters some more. No, that’s not childish at ALL, is it?

NWOSlave. Dude. Your name is NWOSLAVE How much more proof of your martyr complex do we really need? Also I didn’t say feminist ideology, insofar as it is a monolith (which, as many people have said many times, it is not) is blameless and correct. I only said that you misrepresented in it so flagrantly it must be willful misunderstanding on your part. Maybe I’m giving you too much credit. Maybe it’s just straight up misunderstanding.

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Really, the more I think about it, the less NWO’s comment makes sense.

I can understand wanting me to change my mind (about… christ, I don’t even know. about feminism in general, anyway).

But the argument “it’s horrible that you don’t agree with guys who disagree with you” is… it’s not even bullying. It’s just a tautology.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@Holly Pervocracy

Disagree = mean to you.
Nice = total subservience to whatever you say.

I really must flounce now. which means I disagree. Which of course makes me mean. Being mean makes me an oppressor. Being oppressed makes you a victim. Feminist logic 101.

oldfeminist
oldfeminist
9 years ago

“I am removing the post because it’s a distraction to our our mission.”

How can it distract from the mission if it’s such a great example of people you disagree with being wrong and incomprehensible? Wouldn’t it be a perfect display?

I suspect it’s more like the distraction Toto provided in the hall of the Wizard of Oz. “Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.”

mediumdave
mediumdave
9 years ago

So NWOslave is leaving the thread, but has left behind some big, scary-lookin’, moth-eaten scarecrows. Which are no use to us, as I haven’t seen any crows lately in these parts. (BTW, it’s not a flounce if you actually leave. FYI.)

Molly Ren
9 years ago

“Disagree = mean to you.
Nice = total subservience to whatever you say.”

I’m starting to feel like I need a NWO translator. Something like Babelfish, where “woman” is replaced with “evil” and “man” is replaced with “mule of the world”.

oldfeminist
oldfeminist
9 years ago

NWOSlave, why do you constantly equate “I did something wrong” with “I am bad and evil”?

Most of us grow out of this when we realize that Mom and Dad aren’t actual gods and can’t condemn us to eternal damnation because we pooped in our pants that one time at school.

If you want to understand feminism, you have to understand that people are born in unequal circumstances. Along with rich or poor, healthy or sick, there’s also male and female (and others) which guide how we are treated our whole lives no matter what we are like inside.

You seem to refuse the idea that you’re treated differently and better because you were born male. You turn the advantages you have into disadvantages by pretending that anything you see or hear about or read about anywhere that you think treats women better is both universally observed and never counterbalanced or overbalanced by something that treats women worse.

In logic it’s called special pleading, where you only accept evidence in your favor and discount out of hand anything that would militate against your chosen conclusion.

Moreover, your arguments sound an awful like the “White man’s burden” arguments of racists.

Women are treated a certain way, they react, then you blame them for it rather than the society that’s treating them that way.

You can only legitimately blame women for acting as society pressures them if you stop blaming society for putting pressure on you to behave certain ways.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Time for Poll:

This is the NWO worldview:

#1) Straight = Heteronormative privilege…strike one
#2) White = Born with white privilege…strike two
#3) Man = Born with male privilege…strike three

According to feminist logic, by being born I am already guilty by default of being an oppressor.

Since I am a straight white male here is the question:

Do the feminists on the this blog think me an oppressor?

(I believe the list of straight males includes Futrelle, and Zombie. I am sure [it being a common condition of the male half of the species] there are more. I can’t speak to white for an of them).

Molly Ren
9 years ago

@Pecunium Nope.

Pierce Harlan
9 years ago

“How can it distract from the mission if it’s such a great example of people you disagree with being wrong and incomprehensible? Wouldn’t it be a perfect display?”

It’s not a false rape post, you nitwit. And as I explained, Shora might have been right.

And, no, Medium Dave, I don’t want to change your “judgement” of me. If you liked me, that means I’m probably not doing my job. But you are unbanned. You still have to adhere to our comments policy. How about you and I debate Rule 413? I’d love to see you employ this unique logic to a real issue sometime.

I’d also like to see Futrelle write about money — or anything original sometime — because I would start a Futrelle blog and just go after him every day of the week. It’s fun to be mean and sarcastic, and to create straw persons, but you can only do that when you’re attacking what someone else has said.

Molly Ren
9 years ago

@Pierce Harlan: Why money?

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Way to miss the point, NWO. You never cease to amaze.

speedlines
speedlines
9 years ago

Because $MONEY$!

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Pecunium – You’re part of some historically oppressive groups. (Me too! Frankly, everyone who’s alive, too!)

You, personally, are not an oppressor.

Molly Ren
9 years ago

Holly wrote, “Pecunium – You’re part of some historically oppressive groups. (Me too! Frankly, everyone who’s alive, too!)

“You, personally, are not an oppressor.”

Just to get serious for a min, I think this is the distinction that a lot of people have trouble with, not just NWOslave. How do you bridge the gap between what your group has done historically and what you personally have or have not done?

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

It’s a good question. First I would say,don’t feel guilty about being a part of a group that has privilege, especially when you were born into it. Just don’t lie about, or dismiss, how that privilege was acquired and secured. Recognize when you might be benefitting from that privilege. Recognize when someone else might be suffering from its absence.

shaenon
9 years ago


It’s sad but true; I like men that are nice to me, and dislike men that are mean to me.

I’m super unfair.

This seems to be the core of every MRA complaint.

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Molly Ren – What Nobinayamu said, and I’d add: don’t knowingly leverage your privilege.

That is, I think it’s okay for men to contribute to a discussion being had between men and women (obviously), but it’s not okay for them to expect to be treated as the authority figure in that discussion. I think it’s okay for men to be distressed to encounter women who are afraid of them, but it’s not okay for men to revel in that fear or use it as an excuse for their own offense. It’s okay for men to refer to famous male writers, but it’s not okay for men to dismiss other writers as novelties or niche markets.

Being a white guy is something you can’t help and it’s morally neutral; going around with an attitude of “I’m a white guy, so it’s all about me, my experiences, and how I feel” is taking advantage of your privilege.

(I do not think all white guys do that. A lot don’t and I have no complaint against them.)

Sharculese
9 years ago

create straw persons

he quote you. liberally. he’s not the one who made you look and paranoid. that was you. it’s a little late to whine about it now.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

It also offers a little case study of why feminist men earn less than non-feminist men – because they are smarter.

Wait…feminist men are smarter, that’s why they earn less? Do you even read what you write? And you have the gall to lecture Dave on his writing.

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I’d love to see someone create a David Futrelle blog–one like Manboobz in format, where it consists mostly of direct quotes and links, and analysis/rebuttal makes up a minority of the text.

I’m not sure what it would prove, exactly, but it would be entertaining to see how far they’d have to stretch.

Pecunium
9 years ago

I see Holly already made my point. I see also that NWO thinks I agree with her on all things, and would never dare to have my own opinion.

what a kakfa-trap™ If I don’t agree with NWO slave I am a mindless fembot slave; condemned to self-flagellation for my oppressive nature.

If I do agree with him I am a hateful man, required to admit the feminists rule the world and enslave me.

Well.. in the world of NWO, where one must be a slave… I choose freedom.

XD

Pecunium
9 years ago

Harlan doesn’t need Dave, nor anyone else to create strawmen; his words (and deeds) speak for themselves.

Pecunium
9 years ago

re privilege: Yeah, the problem is people can’t separate the general from the particular. Well, NWO can, sort of, but it’s all one way: Women are, “privileged” in some things (by his lights; that is the rules say they can’t be discriminated against just for being women; in some circumstances. Not things like unequal pay, but things like funding for sports programs. That’s unfair, per NWO. How it’s unfair to not treat women the same men escapes me, but he says so, so it must be true), so men aren’t systemically favored in any way.

The thing is, people like NWO do see it as a zero-sum game. If a woman’s life gets better, some man’s life just got worse. That’s the part that bothers me about how NWO’s ilk see the world.

Harlan… his pathologies are beyond me. I’ve looked at FRS, every so often, and the sore idea is sound, but the target is pointless, because the relative incidence of false rape accusations; and the actual effect, is small. In itself that smallness wouldn’t matter; if there weren’t other aspects of false accusations that didn’t 1: have more effect, and 2: overlap in such a way that agitating against them (e.g.prosecutorial over-reach, or the exclusion of non-capital punishment favoring jurors from trials) would reduce the problem in ways more beneficial to everyone.

But no, they go on about things that aren’t false rape, in ways that discount rape,and then say those who are upset about that aspect of it are fans of false rape; even going so far as to accuse them of encouraging false rape.

The rhetoric they use in that is just icing on the cake of fail: illustrative of the whole, and no more substantive than it is decorative.

jumbofish
9 years ago

Do the feminists on the this blog think me an oppressor?
nope <3

First I would say,don’t feel guilty about being a part of a group that has privilege, especially when you were born into it. Just don’t lie about, or dismiss, how that privilege was acquired and secured. Recognize when you might be benefitting from that privilege. Recognize when someone else might be suffering from its absence.

this

jumbofish
9 years ago

noooo quote fail again, I suck.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

The thing is, people like NWO do see it as a zero-sum game. If a woman’s life gets better, some man’s life just got worse.

That explains part of his hatred of me xD Except that the exchange rate between trans ppl and straight cis men is apparently 1 to a million xD But yeah, I think it makes sense now w/ what you said… if I help a trans person, a cis person is being diminished… >_>

Molly Ren
9 years ago

@Ami YOU RIP THE SCHOLARSHIPS RIGHT OUT OF THE STRAIGHT PEOPLE’S HANDS111!!!!!

summer_snow
summer_snow
9 years ago

@ Ami: Diminished? I think you mean trampled. By your fashionable girly shoes that NWO not-so-secretly envies!

Marc
Marc
9 years ago

It is therefore nonsense to imagine that men in general are in danger of being falsely accused of sexual assault.

But in the cases when that did happen… what was going on then?

How could it be that the “privilege” didn’t save them from a wrong conviction?

Take a recent example from Germany: the biology teacher Horst Arnold (white, middle class, middle aged man) was convicted by the regional court of Darmstadt for rape of his 36-yo female colleague. The contradictions of the “victim” and unexplainable lack of evidence didn’t save him. The federal supreme court of Germany uphold the decision of the lower court.

He and his lawyer still fought against the conviction when he was free after five years in prison.

After these years evidence came up to light that his accuser was a chronic pathological liar. She made other false allegations… she even lied that her daughter was killed in a car accident (she didn’t have a daughter at all)… this and other evidence made a retrial possible.

The prosecutor now demanded to get the conviction overturned. This ten year legal battle finally came to an end when the judge said:
“Wee see the defendant as demonstrably not guilty. We believe that the accuser lied and made up the whole story.”

Now, what is the reason that his “privilege” didn’t help him in any way? If privilege isn’t even able to help you against shaky allegations… what is it good for?

Sharculese
9 years ago

Privilege isn’t a magic wand that automatically fixes every situation in the privilege holder’s favor. That’s silly and nobody says that. It’s a set of advantages and built in social biases that tend to bend situations in to his advantage. It’s also not something you can argue against using cherry-picked anecdotes.

And come the fuck on, you’re a big boy, stop with the scare quotes. If you had swapped out accuser for “victim” everyone would have understood what your were saying.

Pierce Harlan
9 years ago

Pecunian said: “Harlan… his pathologies are beyond me.”

So is any inkling about the false rape phenomenon. You and the other armchair-know-it-alls/Futrelle-sycophants should read this primer on the subject before you share your “knowledge” of false rape claims with anyone else: http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/p/lamb-to-slaughter-hofstra-false-rape.html

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