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antifeminism beta males creepy misogyny MRA oppressed men PUA rapey reactionary bullshit sex sluts statutory rape apologists the spearhead video

“Even if the teen showed you a fake ID, you are still a criminal,” and other grave injustices.

Here’s a little video that takes a look at some PUAs and MRAs who share a great love for underage girls … and a hatred of the word “pedophile.” If some of the quotes in the video look familiar, that’s because they’re from a creepy mini-manifesto called “Age of Consent is Misandry,” which we examined here not too long ago. The rest are from a thread on Roissy’s Citizen Renegade blog that really has to be read to be believed.  You’ll notice one, er, interesting comment from a guy calling himself “Welmer.” That’s our good friend W.F. Price from The Spearhead.

Enjoy?

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Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

There’s only one Z in her name xD (esp w/ ppl saying “Ozzy” for Ozzy Osbourne right here on this thread, could get confusing xD)

Also, what’s NWO’s argument now? o_O I thought we were talking about “The Talk” and now we’re on… all women, even if we disagree (and the transphobic rad fems who hate me! xD ), colludng w/ each other… and now gender egalitarian created…all the bad sexist things in the world? o_O (but presumably not good things he likes)

titfortat
9 years ago

Nobinayamu

Actually I pointed out several things in which Sharon may not be as traditional as you suppose. Maybe we should ask her why she married Ozzy. Who knows, maybe she wanted in on the music business and he was a perfect starting point. 😉
Im just supposing.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth | July 18, 2011 at 12:51 pm
NWOaf, which is why we tell you to go forth and try to get people to stop being such.

And stop blaming feminists since we have nothing to do with it.

Very hateful. *nods*

Bee
Bee
9 years ago

Titfortat: I don’t think we need to ask her. It’s common knowledge that she was Ozzy’s manager’s daughter, met him while working for her dad, and and after he died, she became Ozzy’s manager.

(I’m stepping in in the middle of this conversation. I don’t know why this is relevant to anything, but I’ll go back and read the last few pages…)

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Hey NWO, since you’re here. I have a question for you! :3 You obv dun have to answer, but it’s not a bad question or nething, and it might be a fun break from the fighting :3

This is actually a serious question, cuz Empire Strikes Back was on TV last night, and it occurred to me just now that you’re prolly the oldest Star Wars fan I know. Did you watch Empire in theatres? :] Like were you a fan back then too? B/c I was wondering if you were, what your reaction was, and the reaction of the crowd (or ppl you knew, friends, etc) was at the pivotal scene (“No, I am your father”) :3

That’s one of those things that I always kinda wish the internet was around for, to see the reaction of ppl and have it archived xD The cliffhanger at the end of “Best of Both Worlds Part 1” in TNG, is another.

I’m always rly interested in what the reaction of ppl when these big twists and etc happen, and what ppl thought at the time and etc 😀

ozymandias42
9 years ago

NWO: As an example that’s on the top of my brain today… men have a rate of rape almost equivalent to that of women in wartorn African nations. Their wives will sometimes leave them because they’re “not men anymore”; fear of showing emotions has kept them from getting help for their trauma, or even their medical problems. Please explain how this is gender egalitarianism’s fault.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

Did feminists lobby for no fault divorce?
Are feminists now lobbying to block shared custody?
Did feminists lobby for educational privilege excluding men?
Did feminists lobby for abortion, the right to deny a father a child?
Did feminists lobby for quota’s reguardless of merit?
Do feminists lobby for help for only girls worldwide in poor countries in education, government and the basic nessecities of life?
Did feminists lobby for VAWA which is excusionary to men even though every empirical study done shows DV in equal numbers?
Did feminists lobby for mandatory arrest in DV with the man as the primary aggressor?

How long of a list do you need?
Of course since you’re not a monolithic block you maintain perfect innocense.

Funny it still seems like a monolithic camp when laws come from the left, right and middle all to the excusion or detriment of men. But thats not hatred, right?

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

The problem with that NWOaf is you confuse our utter disdain for you with disdain for men.

We do not disdain men. We disdain you.

See the difference?

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

No, Tit for Tat, you didn’t provide any examples of why Sharon Osbourne is not “traditional.” Go back and read what you wrote.

You asserted that she isn’t traditional. You speculated that she aligns herself with feminism. You suggested that she is actually the person in charge of her marriage. None of those counts as examples of Sharon Osbourne being “untraditional”. None of those is an effective counter argument to the simple facts: Sharon Osbourne is a wife of decades and a mother whose entire life and business revolve around, or were initiated by, her relationship with her husband. Hell, she got into the music business when she was young because she was helping her father. She went from one family business to another and devoted the majority of her adult life to her husband’s career and her family.

How about this: why don’t you actually explain why Sharon Osbourne isn’t traditional?

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Did feminists lobby for no fault divorce? Yes, and why is that a bad thing?

Are feminists now lobbying to block shared custody? NOW is-for the very good reason that a husband who is being abusive can and does use the shared custody to get access to the wife he is abusing. Same goes for men actually-if she is being abusive to him, she can use the shared custody get access to him.

Did feminists lobby for educational privilege excluding men? No.

Did feminists lobby for abortion, the right to deny a father a child?Yes on the first one because hello, her body not his. No on the second with the exception as noted above. Once the kid is here, the father should have equal right to the child unless he is abusive.

Did feminists lobby for quota’s reguardless of merit? No.

Do feminists lobby for help for only girls worldwide in poor countries in education, government and the basic nessecities of life? Generally it is the girls who get screwed out of the chances of education so they focus on the girls.

Did feminists lobby for VAWA which is excusionary to men even though every empirical study done shows DV in equal numbers? No and the law specifically allows men to have access to funds (even if the implementers of the programs do not always realise this. That is an information problem not a problem with the law itself.)

Did feminists lobby for mandatory arrest in DV with the man as the primary aggressor? No.

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Did feminists lobby for no fault divorce?
Yes. It’s been a boon to men as well as women, because before no-fault divorce, it was very difficult for men to get out of bad marriages.

Are feminists now lobbying to block shared custody?
No. Nobody is doing that. Tons of families agree to share custody and it works out fine.

Did feminists lobby for educational privilege excluding men?
Um… no. If you’re talking about Title IX, that guarantees that men can never have less than 50% of funding!

Did feminists lobby for abortion, the right to deny a father a child?
Yep! Because a man doesn’t have the right to control other people’s bodies, even on behalf of his “child.” Also, sometimes men WANT their partner to have an abortion.

Did feminists lobby for quota’s reguardless of merit?
No. Nobody on Earth is arguing for hiring “reguardless” of merit.

Do feminists lobby for help for only girls worldwide in poor countries in education, government and the basic nessecities of life?
For girls, but not ONLY girls.

Did feminists lobby for VAWA which is excusionary to men even though every empirical study done shows DV in equal numbers?
Yep. But VAWA actually has a lot of provisions that protect male victims, and tons of studies show that men commit more serious violence and are more likely to seriously injure or kill their victims.

Did feminists lobby for mandatory arrest in DV with the man as the primary aggressor?
Yep… I’m going to REALLY need an explanation for how this could be a bad thing.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

ozymandias42, How did you manage to extrapolate women in africa who leave their husbands because they think they’re “not men anymore” into fear of showing emotions having kept them from getting help for their trauma.

You have placed the blame on the man for the womans poor behavior. Had I done that I would have been accused of victim blaming. This is an example of your hatred of man. The woman remains blameless, it’s HIS fault.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Holly, I thought the big feminist groups were for mandatory arrest and primary aggressor laws-not that men are assumed to be primary aggressors.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

No she has not-she said that men sometimes are dumped by their wives because of the rape. Then she said that fear of having emotions expressed will prevent men from being treated for the trauma they experienced.

I know it is hard for you to understand basic English but that semi-colon in there was kind of showing that she was saying two different things.

titfortat
9 years ago

I didnt say she wasnt traditional. I mentioned that she probably she’s herself as feminist. You disagreed by saying she IS NOT a feminist but a traditionalist. I in fact believe her to be a combination of the two. You obviously dont, for what reasons only you can say. The reason I pointed this out is because some women see themselves as feminists even though some feminists say they are not. Like one of the earlier feminists on here said.

“And, yet again, we are not a damned monolith” (Nobby)

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

PosterBeth – You’re right. In a flurry of “NWO, the answer to every one of your questions is that feminists are not horrible monsters,” I screwed up. I meant mandatory arrests of primary aggressors, but regardless of gender.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@Holly Pervocracy

1)No fault divorce is a boon to men? Wow!

2)NOW is lobbying as we speak.

3)Title IX benefits only women. I mean c’mon.

4)Abortion is the termination of a seperate live form some time between conception and birth. It’s not a womans body thats terminated.

5)Only girls, don’t lie. Why pretend it’s otherwise. Ya know give a girl a cow and she changes the world claptrap.

6)VAWA is possibly the single greatest infringement to the constitution ever created.

7)The explaination of a man being beaten blody by a woman and then being arrested seems self explanatory.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Interestingly… the abuse wheel thingie on VAWA, (despite the issues w/ the gendered language, which I do have a problem w/, and that does pop up in the policy guides of some rape crisis centres which I work w/, and I’m trying to change, even tho they don’t operate this way (b/c the guides haven’t been updated in a decade or more in some cases… but the operation day to day is completely separate from the guides, which makes google warring a tricky proposition about these things sometimes) I still am trying, in my role as a consultant, to get them to change the language, and also put more clearly in their literature, etc how they do actually operate IRL, which is treating cis men and trans men and trans women as survivors too, and that anybody can be a victim of violence… etc ) helped me get thru to a male friend who was in a REALLY bad abusive relationship, realize that he was and get out.. I told him to forget the gendered terms… and look ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING TO YOU! The control, the manipulation, the abuser playing the victim, etc etc

And thank god, he finally did get it and listen to me.. (she tried to isolate him from all his friends, but luckily never managed to get me out of his life :] ) and got out of it… and he’s healing and doing so much better now. :] So while I have a lot of problems w/ the language (and as I said at least in local cases, I DO have a say in being able to change the language in my job :3 and I’m trying my best to push for that… also I’m currently working on an idea to better promote shelters which support and accept cis and trans men, b/c often ppl don’t know, or assume they don’t, so they won’t give it as a resource to a freind, or go themselves, as the places keep telling me, a lot of ppl don’t read pamphlets, and word of mouth is the best advertising for a shelter/service in a city) it did help me save my friend… and I’ve seen it used also to help another friend out of an abusive relationship w/ her mother… so the dynamics outlined are right, the language should be fixed. >:

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

oh i meant the duluth wheel model xD sry… it’s just NWO conflates it w/ VAWA so much it got me thinking about it when he said that, and then I wrote VAWA >_>

neways that still does stand :]

ozymandias42
9 years ago

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men

The woman leaving their husbands and the men not receiving help are completely separate and well-documented issues.

And I am ashamed to share a gender and a species with any woman who dumps her boyfriend or husband for being a rape survivor.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

“Im hard pressed to call Sharon Osbourne a traditional woman. Hateful maybe, traditional, not so much.”

-Tit for Tat, one thread page ago

“I didnt say she wasnt traditional.”

-Tit for Tat, this page, once again, unable to argue past his own speculations and dodging a direct question.

I didn’t say that Sharon Osbourne isn’t a feminist or doesn’t consider herself a feminist. I said that she’s a pretty traditional wife and mother. I don’t believe that the two are mutually exclusive so save your assumptions.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

No, Title IX says half of all funds should be spent on each gender. That is, quite literally, gender egalitarianism. “Not being privileged” is not discrimination.

I have to say in every case I’ve read in which charities give the money to women instead of men, it’s because the women spend the money on school fees for their children and the men spend the money on prostitutes and booze. I wonder why that might be. (Spoiler alert: sexist gender roles!)

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I’m going to stop doing the point-by-point because wrestling with a pig and all, that, but:

Has NWO ever said what he thinks of abortion in cases where everyone agrees? The woman’s pregnant, she says “I don’t want to be a mother,” and her partner says “I don’t want to be a father, either.”

Should we forbid the abortion anyway, against the MAN’S wishes?

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Prove that feminists initiated and/or are solely responsible and benefit, exclusively, from no-fault divorce. And then prove that every woman who has ever filed for a divorce considers herself a feminist. And when you’re done with that, explain to me how that has anything to do with what I believe, or lobby for, because I was born in the late ’70s and have never been married.

Explain to me exactly how and exactly when, quotas…

You know what? Never mind. I’m not going through that batch of bull shit piece-by-piece. We do this all the time; it makes no difference. You’re a person who has chosen to wrap your every failure, your every shortcoming, and everything you hate up into a giant ball that you’ve labeled “Women and Feminism.” I’m not going to argue about facts with you; you’re where facts go to die.

NWO, if you hate your life and fantasize about being a part of some different, bygone, and mostly mythical era where all men were honorable providers and all women were blissfully happy, middle-class homemakers, that’s your problem. I mean, it’s your complete lack of an even basic knowledge and understanding of history, coupled with your essential disconnect from reality. But it is also your problem.

I can only be what I am and live the life that I’m living because, at some point, the idea that a woman could try to be anything she is capable of being, took root. I can only be what I am and live the life that I’m living because groups of people, over time, worked and protested, and formed boycotts, and fought and bled, and died to provide me chances that I, occasionally, take for granted. And you come in here and tell people who are actively protesting an instance of gross misandry -actual misandry- that their efforts are meaningless. Because why? Because you say so. You’re absurd.

I’m not going to denounce or divest myself of my education or opportunities -I am not going to stop protesting what I believe to be wrong or advocating for change- just because you’re a 50 year old white guy who blames everyone but himself for his crappy job and empty life.

SallyStrange
SallyStrange
9 years ago

Just a friendly reminder:

NWOSlave is an unrepentant, shameless liar. He will fabricate whatever “facts” he thinks are useful to him in the moment, and perhaps engage in a little googling later on to try to justify the things he made up. Whatever. The point is, he has no respect for truth and accuracy in conversation.

Tit for Tat is a disingenuous passive aggressive dude who loves posing innocent-looking questions under the pretense of being “above it all.” He hates being made to definitively state his own viewpoint, he prefers trying to guide people into the little rhetorical traps he thinks he’s so clever for setting. Just for shits and giggles, try refusing to answer any of T4T’s questions until he answers them himself. It will drive him crazy, and ultimately, drive him away.

I know a lot of you already know these things, but it’s still worth reminding people, and any newbies should be aware as well.

Johnny Pez
9 years ago

Ami, I’m pretty sure that I’m the oldest Star Wars fan you know. I did see ESB in a theater when it came out, and if memory serves the Reveal about Vader being Luke’s father had all the impact of a wet noodle because it had already been spoiled in various media outlets.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

You are? o_O How old are you? o: You always struck me as young xD

I think NWO is 50…

oh, it had been? o_O I didn’t know that (about it alrdy being spoiled) how was it spoiled? o:

What jerks also! >:O

Holly Pervocracy
Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

SallyStrange – That’s a good point. I think it’s also good to point out that neither of these guys are really arguing about the things they’re arguing about.

NWO isn’t concerned about male victims or male students. He’s just expressing “GRRAGH FEMINISTS,” and complaining about VAWA or Title IX is, to him, not a specific subject of conversation but merely another inflection of “GRRAGH FEMINISTS.”

(You can tell this by the way he changes topics with such fluidity, or tackles 10 topics at once–he doesn’t really care about any one of them.)

It’s impossible to pin him down to an opinion like “so, what do you think we should do to help boys in education?” because not only does he not know, he doesn’t care. He only cares about making angry juice.

NWO, you’re welcome to disprove this by your actions–by talking about your opinions directly rather than by implication and by describing how you would make the world better for men, rather than worse for women.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

Alternately, you can disprove this by your actions through participating in letter-writing campaigns against Got Milk and The Talk for their clear misandry, and through donating money to help 1in6 protect male survivors of child sexual abuse.

Sharculese
9 years ago

Title IX benefits only women. I mean c’mon.

Title IX primarily benefits women, because historically, women are generally the ones denied access to educational opportunities. But it’s been used to benefit men, too. For instance, a few years Western Kentucky was handing out more of its sports scholarship budget to female athletes, and they had to create 22 new football scholarships to compensate.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080115123929/http://wku.edu/news/releases06/november/football.html

VAWA is possibly the single greatest infringement to the constitution ever created.

Yeah, when I think of gross constitutional violations, I too think of gray area equal protection cases.

Sharculese
9 years ago

For that matter, why would someone who believes in an honest to god NWO conspiracy still be worrying about constitutional violations? Like, once you reach that point isn’t it just assumed that the rule of law has gone out the window?

Right, because unconstitutional is used here in its modern form: “affront to my archaic sensibilities.”

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Ami, Johnny is correct. I also saw ESB in theaters, and the ending had been ruined for me by a kid who shouted it out in class one day. I think most people already knew, those who paid attention at any rate. I think my mom was surprised, but that was about it.

pi male
pi male
9 years ago

Ami, I was about 9 when ESB came out and I remember when the big reveal came about I was pretty much, “So?”. That’s one of the things that struck me. I am adopted and as such I was accustomed to thinking of a father as the guy who was raising you. I really didn’t get why this information, while surprising, was so traumatic for Luke. Obviously Vader was not the guy Luke had fond memories of playing catch with or whatever, so I didn’t see the tragedy. Obviously my obtuseness was clearly the fault of my adoptive parents for not schooling me in Greek myth from the time I could walk.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth, the trauma isn’t the problem. the wife leaving is. The wifes lack of compassion is the problem. Horrifying isn’t it.

Put it this way, if a man leaves a woman because she was raped who would you blame for him leaving. Go ahead, tell me you would blame her for not getting help.

How you can’t see your hatred of man when it is so obvious.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

Yes, NWO, but what about your hatred of elephants?

I believe that is the real issue here.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

No, NWO, you twit, both the trauma AND the wife leaving are problems.

I blame men who leave their spouses for being raped, and women who leaving their spouses for being raped. See? Equality.

I still don’t know how any of this is gender egalitarianism’s fault.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

VAWA is possibly the single greatest infringement to the constitution ever created.

Yeah, I still think the Alien and Sedition Acts have VAWA beat. Or, if you like more modern examples, the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, the Japanese internment order…shall I go on? Or is it only a violation of the Constitution if it can happen to you?

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@Sharculese, how could VAWA not be unconstitutional?

Violence against women act. The name says it all. Violence against women is above voilance against men. It is a seperate exculsionary law the pertains to violence against women. Violence against women is worse than violence against men.

How can this not be a violation of rights? One group of people have written in law that an exact crime comitted against them will be more severly punished than the same crime they commit against the other group.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
9 years ago

@ Oz,

I still don’t know how any of this is gender egalitarianism’s fault.

Because, in his mind, you would hold men to a higher standard than you hold women. And if you deny it, you’re lying. What you would actually do in real life is irrelevant. Feminists are responsible for all that is bad, and if they’re not responsible, then they secretly approve of it, therefore they are responsible, QED.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@Holly Pervocracy, by dismissing my point of hatred of men being endemic, that this hatred is supplied by the economics of demand you further illustrate your approval of this prevailing attitude.

Will there be more shows, sitcoms, products, exclusionary charities, ect. demanding the fear, hatred and disenfrachment of men?

If the answer is yes, then that means the demand is already there. Economy will dictate supply.

SallyStrange
SallyStrange
9 years ago

Apparently, decades of legally sanctioned abuse of women by their owners – sorry, I mean husbands, lack of prosecution for rape, denial of basic rights like being able to own property, start a business, enter a professional field, run for office, or even vote, failed to create among women a widespread hatred of men.

But along came the movement for gender equality and BAM! suddenly women start hating men.

Yeah, that makes total sense. Just like every other stupid thing NWOaf pulls out of his ass.

SallyStrange
SallyStrange
9 years ago

Not decades. Centuries. Thinking on the wrong timescale here.

Sharculese
9 years ago

how could VAWA not be unconstitutional?

The constitutional argument against the VAWA was plausible. I don’t agree with it, and I think it hinges on a much narrower reading of the 14th amendment than I’m will to endorse, but it’s plausible.

Violence against women act. The name says it all. Violence against women is above voilance against men. It is a seperate exculsionary law the pertains to violence against women. Violence against women is worse than violence against men.

I know I’m going to regret trying to actually explain this to you, and I refuse to give an entire rundown of equal protection jurisprudence to someone who doesn’t want to understand it, but you understand that titles of laws are um, just names, they don’t have any enforcement power themselves.

VAWA was called that because it was designed to correct a systemic problem of local authorities responding to incidents of violence against women at much lower rates than violence against men. This was definitely happening. The record is clear. The whole point was that nobody was taking violence against woman seriously, and to establish that it was just as bad as violence against men.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

@SallyStrange, I’m sure thru the ages you still feel the pain of not being able to vote or own property. You do know there were women property owners during that time when all men weren’t allowed to vote, only property owners. Did these women therefore oppress the men who couldn’t vote? Of course not. Neither were the women oppressed. Also during that oppressive time for women men were held responsible for their wives actions. Of course you’ll call it oppression that they didn’t have agency. Are parents today held responsible for the childrens actions? Most definitely. Are they oppressed? No.

Must men always be oppressors and women always be victims in the feminists ideology?

Titfortat
9 years ago

Nobinayamu

You are correct, I apologize for the error.

Sally

I see you still love me. 🙂

Amused
Amused
9 years ago

“@Sharculese, how could VAWA not be unconstitutional?”

It isn’t. If you disagree, please make a specific reference to the actual text of the Constitution, explain in what way VAWA violates that particular provision of the Constitution, and back up your arguments with citations to actual court cases.

It’s not often that I ask for substantiation, but I am sick and tired of people who would rather pull their teeth than read the Constitution complain about this, that, or the other thing being “unconstitutional”.

T4T: I am so sorry for using facts as weapons to attack you with. I know passive-aggressive insinuations are more your style. Oh, actually, wait, no, I’m not.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

NWO, love, there’s a pretty clear difference between “women” and “children.”

speedlines
speedlines
9 years ago

the trauma isn’t the problem. the wife leaving is. The wifes lack of compassion is the problem.

So if an unmarried man is raped, everything’s hunky-dory. Gotcha.

NWOslave
NWOslave
9 years ago

Sharculese, please show me this “clear record” of womens abuse being swept under the rug. And how a beaten woman wasn’t being taken seriously? I would surely love to see the empirical data on this.

Titfortat
9 years ago

Amused

I know. 😉