Here, found on Men’s Rights Reddit, is a “demotivational” poster that illustrates just why Rebecca Watson’s comments about that now-famous elevator incident, and the ensuing discussions that erupted amongst feminists online (and here, in our longest thread ever), were actually, you know, necessary: whoever made this evidently thinks that the very notion that a RAPIST would ask someone out for coffee first is so inherently and self-evidently hilarious that you don’t even have to explain why it’s so hilarious.
Never mind that, er, rapists often DO invite their future victims out for coffee, to the movies, out for a kebab, etc, etc first. Never mind that if some hypothetical woman had accepted a 4 AM “coffee in my room” invite and been raped, many of the very same guys now ranting about how she’s calling all men rapists would be blaming her for being a “slut” who “was asking for it” by agreeing to said “coffee” date.
(And I’ll just note that Watson did not in fact accuse her admirer in the elevator of being a rapist or even a creep; she simply mentioned that propositioning someone in an elevator at 4 AM is a creepy thing to do.)
And yes, that is Richard Dawkins in the picture. I’m not sure why someone who presumably agrees with what Dawkins said about the case would want to feature him in a poster next to the word “rapists,” but what do I know? In any case, Dawkins is now being hailed as a hero by more than a few of the regulars in the Men’s Rights subreddit — not for his scientific work, or his science writings, or even his atheist activism, but for his douchebaggery towards Watson. The Flying Spaghetti Monster works in mysterious ways, I guess.
Speaking of which — the mysterious ways thing, I mean — can anyone explain the logic behind this comment to me?
Specifically, could you explain the bit about “smack[ing] the shit out of” feminists who’ve stood up for Rebecca Watson? It seems to me that if you’re trying to make the point that Watson and her supporters are reacting hysterically to an innocent invitation to coffee, and that women have no reason to be fearful or concerned or even just mildly creeped out by men propositioning them in elevators at 4 am, it does not exactly help your case to talk about doing physical harm to feminists (or children, for that matter). Doesn’t that suggest, rather, that women should be concerned about strange men in elevators — because of the off chance that one of these strange men could turn out to be, you know, the sort of dude who posts shit like that on the internet?
Honestly, the intent of the poster may have been to mock the idea that rapists can come across as just normal blokes but it doesn’t.
It makes a pretty good point that perfectly normal seeming folks can be capable of rape.
Then again, I don’t think rape requires violence. Lack of consent is the dividing line.
Molly Ren – OK, that one actually was funny.
I bought into all the “men are bacon, men are natural bacon” crap spouted by feminist bacon
I respected women, but I forgot to respect bacon.
Dark days indeed!
I didn’t say EG was a rapist, Ion. For the zillionth time.
I was responding *to David’s point* in the OP, that apparently the idea of a rapist asking you for coffeeis completely risible to MRAs. I was pointing out that stereotyping rapists as Snidely Whiplash types is a psychological fig leaf for men who are unwilling to question their own sexual behaviour, just like victim-blaming is a psychological fig leaf for women who can’t take in the implications of living in a rape culture. I didn’t mention EG at all.
May I suggest you take a remedial English class? Jesus.
“I didn’t say EG was a rapist, Ion. For the zillionth time.”
He seems unable to grasp this point. I still think he’s NWOslave in disguise.
“You’re right, Ion, we are making fun of you. But you’ve made it so damn easy and you take your worldview so damn seriously!”
XD XD XD
You didn’t say it outright, but you implied it with every sentence. You said EG’s behavior was creepy. You said it’s the kind of thing rapists do. You repeatedly mentioned a scenario where if she’d accepted the invitation and been raped, she would have been blamed – which aside from being BS, implies that rape was a distinct possibility. Honestly, I grasp the point just fine, only thing I can’t grasp is your dishonesty.
“You’re right, , we are making fun of you. But you’ve made it so damn easy and you take your worldview so damn seriously!”
I think I’ll make that my reply every time a feminist tries to talk about an issue that concerns her.
Wow. One more instance of these “men’s rights” a-holes Not Getting the Point.™ I will say, however, that this episode has turned into a running joke with my girlfriend and me.
*sultry voice* “Oh God, your speeches on the objectification of women is sooo hottt! Why don’t you come up to my room so we can talk about it all night!”
“Oh, you’re so right, women are sooo not respected enough in the workplace” *eyeing her up and down, making kissy faces*
“I think I’ll make that my reply every time a feminist tries to talk about an issue that concerns her.”
That would make you even more boring, so . . . . go for it.
Maybe some empathy training as well, Ion?
Ion, the main problem I’m having with your worldview is that you continually circle back to the guy’s appearance being the deciding factor in how Watson treated him. I’m seeing nothing to support that in the original video and I don’t know why you’re clinging to it so stubbornly.
Would a woman never turn a man down if she wasn’t feminist?
Like your empathy for Mr. Attempted Elevator Rapist, or anyone who disagrees with you for that matter? Think I’ll have to look elsewhere for that…
I think men should not be allowed on elevators at all without a license. The board in charge of handing out the licenses will be staffed entirely with the most hateful and seething radfems. They will charge $10,000 as an application fee. Not surprisingly, they’ll not issue any men’s elevator licenses and will instead use the money to take vacations and pay for late term abortions for strippers and escorts.
I think that would be the “correct response.”
Molly Ren,
BEST MAD-LIB EVAR!
I think men should not be allowed on elevators at all without a license. The board in charge of handing out the licenses will be staffed entirely with the most hateful and seething radfems. They will charge $10,000 as an application fee. Not surprisingly, they’ll not issue any men’s elevator licenses and will instead use the money to take vacations and pay for late term abortions for strippers and escorts.
Good, good. Or alternately, no man should ever approach or proposition a woman again, for any reason, and if a woman approaches a man, he should automatically recoil and publically refer to her as creepy.
“Molly Ren,
“BEST MAD-LIB EVAR!”
Where’s my job at SNL? 😉
FMRAs,
Men who take the stairs will then improve their cardiovascular health and live longer, so your proposal may run contrary to the whole Secret Feminist Plot to Eradicate the Male Gender. Still, bonus points for trying. The Feminist Overmind will be pleased.
I still want to know why it all comes down to looks for you, Ion.
I’ll give Lorne a call about that first thing tomorrow morning. 🙂
The thing is that approaching is risky. Not just the simple issue of rejection, but of unpleasant reaction; the humiliating put-down, the slap in the face.
I’ve seen people rejected pretty cruelly. I’ve seen some who were used, and then rejected (fuck ’em and forget ’em”) in ways that would, had it happened to me, have made me a whole lot less likely to pursue people, in general.
In my experience, it’s a lot riskier for a woman to approach a man; in this regard. I don’t know of any women who have used sleeping with someone deemed socially unattractive as a way to garner status, but I know of several cases where a guy did it, so he could boast of how, “she got to fuck a stud” and then he spurned her. That she, “wasn’t worthy” and thought a “pity fuck” was a sign of liking her was treated as risible; and to be boasted of.
Women must terrify you Ion.
I still want to know why it all comes down to looks for you, Ion.
Because it does. I know you keep protesting it, but I’m convinced that if she’d been attracted to this guy, her next-day blog would’ve said something like “this cute guy who’d been eyeing me all night finally caught up to me in the elevator, said he’d been interested in my talk and asked me to have some ‘coffee’ in his room. Needless to say, it was a wild night!” But she didn’t find him attractive, so he became ‘creepy’ instead. End of story.
To be honest it makes no difference to me, but it’s amusing to see how worked-up some people can get about it.
“To be honest it makes no difference to me, but it’s amusing to see how worked-up some people can get about it.”
Like you, you mean?
Honestly, if a Brad Pitt look-a-like asked me to his room at 4am, in an elevator, I would still say no. It’s not romantic, it’s not attractive and if this guy can’t approach a woman in a way that would make her feel comfortable, why would she want to start any kind of relationship with him?
Women must terrify you Ion.
If by “women” you mean “certain women” and by “terrify” you mean “mildly annoy”, then yes.
“To be honest it makes no difference to me, but it’s amusing to see how worked-up some people can get about it.”
It certainly is interesting to see how worked up some people can get about a woman setting boundaries. Jesus.