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internal debate MRA

MRA: Thomas Ball is no martyr

Not everyone in the MRM is hailing Thomas Ball as a martyr. Here’s what the blogger at Rise of the Zeta Male has to say on the subject:

What happened was a tragedy, and he absolutely should be honored for his fight. But at the end of the day, I still think his methods, and advocacy for violence (see the Molotov cocktail section) are wrong. The only thing violence breeds is more violence, and I am not going to excuse that, just because he proves a point I stand by. This was not an act of self defense, it was not an act of selfishness, it was an act of self destructive protest and it is a great tragedy.

I don’t often agree with what’s posted at Zeta Male – I’m not sure I’ve ever agreed with anything he’s said previously – and there are things in this comment and the rest of the post that I think are problematic. But I have to give the blogger credit for taking a principled stance on this issue, and one that is distinctly unpopular amongst MRAs online.

 

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Molly Ren
13 years ago

Kirby, you torment me. :'(

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
13 years ago

I suppose I could always cut slices of my home-made bread, then take some cheese, grill up some bacon, and make grilled-cheese and bacon sandwiches!

okay.. I’ll stop now. 😛

Molly Ren
13 years ago

Sadist!

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

He’s a feminist, it goes w/o saying he’s also a sadist xD

darksidecat
13 years ago

Here’s a few links with some stats and a basic outline of child support law:

http://family.findlaw.com/child-support/support-basics/support-intro.html
http://family.findlaw.com/child-support/support-basics/support-stats.html

A person cannot be jailed for civil contempt if they demonstrate and inability to meet the conditions (this is true in general). As to child support, a non-custodial parent being charged with contempt must be given “clear notice that his ability to pay would constitute the critical question in his civil contempt proceeding.” Under Turner v Rogers, a civil contempt defendent in these cases does not have to be provided counsel, but in the words of the court “…we attach an important caveat, namely,that the State must nonetheless have in place alternative procedures that assure a fundamentally fair determination of the critical incarceration related question, whether the supporting parent is able to comply with the support order.” So, all Ball needed to do was show up to his contempt hearing and (if it is true) state his lack of income, and he could not be jailed for civil contempt for failure to pay. Some districts require those who are unemployed and failing to pay support to participate in state programs which provided job training or do job searches, but beyond that, no income means no civil contempt punishment for failure to pay. Unless, of course, the person refuses to appear at their court dates or fill out their forms.

zombie rotten mcdonald
13 years ago

Also, people, remember that whenever you disprove one of Slavey’s points, it shows that you’re full of hate.

Can I just hate him because he is a vile, pathetic, miserable-excuse-for-a-man?

I am all about the shortcuts.

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

@Molly Ren

http://www.gamer-source.com/?cmd=media&sec=artwork&act=view&id=231

how about this for your card? (or do you prefer to be a hippo?)

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
13 years ago

Thanks, DSC!

Molly Ren
13 years ago

@Ami Forget the hippo. This is soooo much cooler! 😀

Bee
Bee
13 years ago

Ami! If the ghost bees didn’t fit in with the storyline, I wanna be something nonhuman anyway. Could I be a feminist boat? Like, Scott Adams’ counterpart? (Although that’s certainly an overstatement of my feminist powers. Maybe a feminist canoe!)

Alex
13 years ago

@Ami,

By itself and out of context, the princess/prince thing really isn’t all that bad (though I wonder how she would possibly be tonguing with him is she was asleep, and that’s disturbing in another way). The teacher/student thing though is just wrong. I mean, sure, adults can role-play a student and teacher and there’s nothing wrong with that, but the juxtaposition of the clearly adult teacher and child student suggests the student in the “adult” pannel is probably in high school, and that’s not cool no matter how it’s spun. So shame on KIA!

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

Yeah, that’s basically what I said in my blog. I had no problem w/ the princess/prince thing but I can ttlly see how the other one is being read that either this is how the teacher sees the student or that it’s still her being underage 😐 even if that was not the intent.. :

Bee
Bee
13 years ago

Or, crap, Ami … that sounded different in my head. I meant to say I don’t care if you do the bee card, but I didn’t mean to make it sound like I demanded anything! Sorry. Poorly typed.

Pecunium
13 years ago

darksidecat: There are jurisdictions where arrears in childsupport (e.g. Rhode Island, Michigan, Missouri) is a crime, not an issue of Civil Contempt.

darksidecat
13 years ago

@Pecunium, I think even in those states, civil contempt is still the first go to option. Apparantly, such criminal statutes are fairly common, but almost never used (obviously, in a criminal case the defendent has the right to an attorney and the prosecution must prove each element beyond a reasonable doubt and these statutes all seem to include that the violation be willful or intentional, which a failure due to inability is not). Still, it might be an interesting issue in another case, but we know here that Ball’s case was a civil contempt case (he cites the opponent as the wife’s lawyer, not the prosecutor or the DA’s office).

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Buck Swamp already has one? *is impressed at his douchatude*

denelian
denelian
13 years ago

Ami; the Zeta cards are BEEEYOTIFUL! [yes, i deliberately misspelled “beautiful” if anyone cares]

Slave:
let me see if i follow your logic. there ARE rigid gender-roles, and it is the JOB of the woman to take care of the kids full-time, while it’s the JOB of the man to bring in income.
but when there is a divorce, those rigid gender roles are to be UTTERLY DISCARDED, so that the men who did little in the way of DIRECT child-care can now have “equal time” if they want it.

HUH?!?! look, either there are rigid gender roles that state WOMEN do the actual WORK of child-care [and fucking trust me – child care is WORK!] while the MEN pay for it, and so in the case of divorce there’s NO NEED to really change this formula – or, there *IS* a need to change the formula because gender roles are NOT rigid and MEN are completely capable of LEARNING HOW to be primary child-care-givers.

which is it? because you’re trying to both have your cake and eat it, too. these are mutually impossible ideas – if you think men should get equal fucking time, then you DON’T believe in rigid gender roles. if you DO believe in rigid gender roles, than the idea of men getting equal time should be ABHORENT to you.

moving on a bit – the average amount of child support the non-custodial parent is SUPPOSED to pay is around 20% of their income [it’s often lower; rarely higher]. if the average person makes $30k – $2,500/month – then the average child support check is $500. *MY* rent is higher than that, and i live in one of the cheapest areas of town! paying for 20 hours of child care a week is about $400 a week. 40 hours a week is about $800. yet most non-custodial parents don’t even pay enough child support each month to have their child in daycare “full time” for a week!

last-but-not-least – in cases where the custodial parent is recieving welfare, which account for over HALF the cases where child support has been mandated, the REASON child support is now mandated is because Regan and the Republicans [that should TOTALLY be a punk rock band name, btw] spent YEARS throwing a fit about welfare and had the laws changed so that instead of getting welfare from the state, the single parent on welfare was getting said welfare, second had, from the non-custodial parent. as in, the custodial parent IS NOT the one who goes after child support – the STATE is, to “pay back” that welfare – and this is a policy that feminists fought tooth-and-fucking-NAIL for YEARS, correctly stating that it would A) cost more to get that money than the money itself would recoup, B) unfairly punished primarily poor men, who often have low-earning jobs and can’t afford to pay child support and *that’s why the custodial parent was applying for welfare to begin with*

but sure, go ahead and continue to blame the wrong people. as the republican continue to steal your jobs and your money and raise your taxes to off-set the taxes they refuse to collect from the uber-rich, blame to one group of people who FOUGHT the current child-support system. go ahead, slit your own throat. it’s what the republicans want, anyway.

Skyal
Skyal
13 years ago

NWO, the child’s right is to a STABLE situation that most closely approximates what they are used to and which best provides them stability and consistency in parenting.. And given I made no distinction about who was the primary caregiver, your ridiculous claim of hatred has no basis. If the primary caregiver is the father, the same situation applies.

If non-primary caregivers want to get equal custody, they need to fucking step up and do equal PARENTING. Bathing, feeding, diapering, playing, educating. And in the case of infants and toddlers, they still have no “right” to equal custody because it’s too hard on the child. And if they really fucking cared about their kids, they would choose what is best for the CHILD not their own selfish desire to look like a decent parent when they couldn’t be bothered when they had the chance.

Skyal
Skyal
13 years ago

Kirby, your sandwich sounds awesome. Now I’m hungry.

denelian
denelian
13 years ago

and – oh, WOW, the Queen Beetch is almost IMPOSSIBLE to play – but sooooooooooooo wonderful!

i was gonna say, when i saw the pic for MollyRen, that you have her be a “Barbarian Queen commonly know as ‘The Ravening Hippo'” or something – but the drill seargant is pretty cool! i especially like the slave-driving aspect of her 🙂

on my card – i particualarly like how i can kill ANY non-artifact creature with just 3 black mana. that’s HAWT 😀

i think i’m gonna write some backstory for mine – i has some ideas! [i didn’t say before – but i specifically like that i was an “athlete” before being kicked out because my boobs distracted from the “real” athletes – it parallels my problems in dance without screwing up the story line. thanks! i totally ♥ my card!]

chocomintlipwax
13 years ago

I’ve mentioned before that I know a lady who has a lot of kids and the dad has primary custody (of the ones she had with him, then she ran off and had some more with another dude and married him).

I found out recently that she quit her (50k/yr) job so that she could get out of paying child support. Is she going to jail for it? Nope. She’s just paying a percentage of her income, apparently. Which is nothing.

I would use that as some evidence against something someone said, except I know I’ll hear how it’s different because she’s a woman (except that I also hear that men never get primary custody, so this situation shouldn’t even exist).

By the way, her sister (a woman) and her mother (another woman) are both appalled at her behavior. All of it. Because there’s a LOT of behavior to be appalled at …

(I finally connected my phone to my computer. Hallelujah. Real browser internetz. I haz dem.)

Ami Angelwings
13 years ago

Swamp is a land type in Magic… his name was too perfect not to make it xD And all his ramblings about how we were hurting ourselves gave me the perfect idea for the card xD It’s hard to offend somebody who’s just here for ideas for cards xD

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/ami_angelwings/Magyc%20Cards/VirginalPlains.jpg

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/ami_angelwings/Magyc%20Cards/SilverflowMountain.jpg

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/ami_angelwings/Magyc%20Cards/SecondWaveIsland.jpg