“Kloo2yoo,” the moderator of Reddit’s Men’s Rights Subreddit, is worried that racists in his subreddit will give Men’s Rights a bad name. So he’s put out a call to some of the more artistic readers of the subreddit to come up with a nice new logo for it, to show how broad-minded and all-inclusive Reddit’s Men’s Rightsers really are. Well, not literally all-inclusive. As Kloo put it in his call for artiistic help:
New logo needed, to emphasize racial and lgbt inclusiveness, but not feminism.
Oh, but even that turned out to be a bit too inclusive for some of the commenters there. Specifically, they objected to the “L” portion of LBGT. And some of the Ts. As white_cloud put it:
I don’t think you need to appeal to the L in LGBT. It is well-known that lesbians are the most radical of all feminists. They will never feel welcome here and we should not go out of our way to make them feel welcome. Male to female trans pretty much the same thing. They’ve already renounced their male gender, they don’t care about male rights
Scott2508 concurred:
ok i am in favour of inclusivness and im not sure if i am going to word this right so stick with me , the one thing i am curious about is how we bring ourself in line with the lesbian [angle] of it all simply due to the hostility that can arise from that community towards men
Kloo replied:
point taken. we can embrace lesbian mras, without embracing lesbian supremacists.
Apparently these are the only types of lesbians in the world.
In any case, despite these design constraints, I have come up with what I think is a very compelling logo that I think will convey just what Kloo would like to convey. What do you think, guys?
Also, I quite like that Julie Bindel article.
Perhaps we should have a betting pool on how long MRAL’s going to last in therapy. My guess is a day.
Er, contact a lawyer?
MRAL you know for someone who claims not to be an abuser, you really follow the pattern of one to a ‘T’.
MRAL: RAWR!! RAGE!! RANDOM CURSING AND THREATS OF VIOLENCE!!
Posters: Wow MRAL, totally uncalled for an frankly threatening.
MRAL: I’m sorry I lost control can we just pretend that never happened. RAWR!! MORE RAGE!! … Oops sorry I lost control again.
Yeah, I agree with an above poster. I feel that it is only a matter of time before you enter an abusive relationship. Seriously, get help.
MRAL, the problem I have when talking about a feminist issue and bringing up men is the fact that you are not letting it be about a feminist issue any more. You force it into being about men rather then women because you assume that men are always, always more important then women and therefore our efforts should be focused on making their lives better not women. That ticks people off who have had to do a lot of hard work to get that cause accepted/funded/taken seriously/whatever while at the same time asking them to stop working on their cause to work on the men’s cause. And you on top of that claim that they hate men for refusing to drop their work in favor of these other causes.
It is pretty effing annoying to be told that unless you start fixing men’s problems, you hate them when the person telling you this could easily be working to fix the problems instead.
Mm hmm. Not an abuser, eh?
Good luck with that lawsuit, you pathetic, transparent liar.
Seriously, fuck off and don’t come back til you’ve gotten therapy. Your toxic, violent fantasies are hurtful and not welcome around here. You can’t stop yourself from posting that shit? That’s scary. That means you have problems. That means I’m happy I’m not in the same room as you, and if I ever realized that I was, I would leave immediately. You are not safe to be around, and you won’t be until you get help.
Calling Poe on Arks here. Anyone else see it?
Oh I get it. Feminism is not hate movement. They just want nothing to with men.
Fake fun-feminists who have horrible PIV sex with men are enemy-pleasing rape-apologists who will realize the error of their ways soon enough.
Like Jessica Valenti. Here complication with her pregnancy should teach here a lesson of how wrong this man-pleasing feminism is. (never mind that she show rape-culture around every corner and under every bed, she was still a man pleasing sell-out)
As you can read here:
http://factcheckme.wordpress.com/2011/02/06/jessica-valenti/
It’s easy to sell out… that’s the whole point of patriarchy… to cause women to be in a state of denial that they could be killed in pregnancy, or to deny that there is a herstory of women’s stuggle all over the world, and we had better learn its lessons..
WTF? ‘Feminist’ issues like getting married and having babies? She didn’t even examine it in the slightest anyway.
Upholding the status quo, claiming it to be ‘choice’ or ‘feminist’, is not feminist.
It serves patriarchy well to have a bunch of clueless 20-somethings become the ‘voice’ of feminism – make stuff up as they go along, confuse the hell out of everyone because anything goes, and neatly erase older and previous generations of women/feminists and their work. There is reason why patriarchy ALLOWS the ‘voice’ of ‘young, hip, hawt’ ‘feminism’ – and it is not anything to do with improving the life of women, all women, or feminism.
If not a Poe, then a completely ridiculous person with completely ridiculous beliefs that aren’t worth arguing against. Xe makes fun of xirself — whether intentionally or not, I have stopped caring.
“Calling Poe on Arks here. Anyone else see it?”
Yeah, that’s the optimistic viewpoint . . .
Will the real feminist now stand up ?
MRAL: when it’s THUGBOY which I have seen quoted often, then, it’s definitely racist (you do know how African American men were called “boys,” I hope). It’s connotations in OTHER situations does not undercut its racism in SOME contexts. I hate to break it to you, but unfairly, words do not mean the same thing all the time in all contexts. That’s not how language works.
And in your examples are underlying racism: people holding social and economic power call certain groups (disproportionately poor, of color, or both) “thugs” (do you ever heard the term thug applied to the white male bankers who steal gazillions of dollars and serve very little prison time even when caught? Probably not).
It’s pefectly possible to call a white male a thug in some contexts. But in others, and I’d say “thugboy” counts, it’s racist.
If you’d like to see the OED entry, let me know (the term was originally coined in England to describe a group of assassins in India–who were robbers–of course England at the time was starting to move into stealing all of India, but did nice white ENglish colonial gentlemen ever get called thugs? Probably not.
Pregnancy can kill a woman Luke. Do you know nothing about reproduction?
Get some fucking perspective.
I could say the same–that is, you need to understand perspectives that are not yours, and how you, as a white man, don’t get to dictate how other people view your language and attitudes.
I’m a a white woman, but I’m queer, pagan, and fat as well as being a feminist, and so I’m well aware of how that privilege works.
Context, it’s context. Words do not exist in a vacuum. Who is speaking to whom is key: do you know why Ross Perot was widely condemned as racist when he called a gathering of African Americans “you people”?
At least trolls like Arksibalt are slightly (and oooooooooh is that ever so slightly) more entertaining than someone like Luke123.
That’s just idiocy. The comments on this blog is littered with feminists, including yours truly. Since I’ve been here, I don’t recall any of us saying we want nothing to do with men, and many of the posters here are very happy with the men in their lives. What you did, sir, was make a bullshit statement.
Was this you? The Maine RR ip-address?
Yes, that was me.
Yes, and pregnancy is a male invention, created to kill women out of sheer malice.
Luke the only people spewing hate here happen to be MRAs and other trolls like you. You are the only person here who has implied that Jessica Valenti will be “taught a lesson” by pregnancy complications.
Feminism is not about hate, it is about equality and inclusion. Women, men, homosexuals, heterosexuals, transsexuals, white, black, blue, purple, all can be feminists.
MRAL: Consider most feminists answer with a sarcastic “waahhh, wahhh, what about teh menz?” when asked to consider men and their issues, yeah, it’s a bit hypocritical to mock these guys for excluding feminists/lesbians/whatever.
Hogwash.
“Wanh… What about teh menz.” is a response to people who take an issue about women/equality, and make it about how men are oppressed.
It’s mocking people who are trying to hijack a discussion.
I think he’s saying her complicated pregnancy- which did threaten her life and her child’s- is her lesson for being a smelly feminist (even though Ms Valenti is awesome and my hero)
“That’s just idiocy. The comments on this blog is littered with feminists, including yours truly. Since I’ve been here, I don’t recall any of us saying we want nothing to do with men, and many of the posters here are very happy with the men in their lives. What you did, sir, was make a bullshit statement”
You didn’t read many feminist blogs yet. Read the links I posted.
MRAL: your request to delete your violent comment about BIndel–I cannot make David do anything, but I wish he would not. Those are your words; they’re on record, and should not be deleted. I was sad to see them as I read through the thread since (as far as I know, and I might have missed something in the 900 post threads) hadn’t reacted that way for a while.
At least it says something that I guess you’re sort of ashamed of it.
I don’t even know who Julie Bindel is (I’ve been a feminist since 1983, and surprise, I don’t know all feminists), but no matter who she is or what she writes about, your violent fantasies are inappropriate.
I guess that “six pleasant posts communicating with other people about what interests them or topics of general interest” is not likely to happen, is it.
“I think he’s saying her complicated pregnancy- which did threaten her life and her child’s- is her lesson for being a smelly feminist (even though Ms Valenti is awesome and my hero)”
It’s not me that’s saying that. It’s your friendly radfem sister that says that.
Pet peeve: there are no people who are blue or purple. Including such fictional characters in a list meant to point up feminism’s inclusiveness kind of glosses over the problems the movement has had in being TRULY inclusive towards women of color.
Which is why I read womanist-musings.com. Check it out, it’s awesome!
http://www.womanist-musings.com/
No, I’m sure people here read more feminist blogs than you do. There’s a whole blog roll to the right of this page. I read many, daily. And many of my favorite feminists- Melissa McEwan, Jessica Valenti, Amanda Marcotte, to name a few- are either happily married, or happily shacked up. Also, the blog by Julie Bindel? Pretty spot on, and hardly condemning. Unless you think she shouldn’t be calling people out for being ass hats.