Amanda Marcotte, feminist blogger and Friend of Man Boobz, has been taking a lot of shit from MRAs – and I mean a LOT of shit – for a comment she made here on the Thomas Ball suicide.
As you may already know, Ball burned himself to death outside a New Hampshire courthouse. In a lengthy manifesto he wrote shortly before killing himself, he portrayed his suicide as a protest against a corrupt family court system, and went on to argue that MRAs should quite literally assemble some Molotov cocktails and “start burning down police stations and courthouses.” (You can read the whole manifesto here.) Despite his calls for violence many MRAs have hailed him as an MRA martyr.
Marcotte, in her comment here, suggested that there might have been other, more personal reasons for his suicide – namely, the desire to hurt his ex-wife:
I’ll point out that setting yourself on fire is an extremely effective tool if your goal is to make your ex-wife’s life a living hell, and if your anger at losing control over her overwhelms all other desires. Which is common enough with abusers, who will ruin their own lives and their own shit and turn their children against them in an effort to hurt the woman they’ve fixated on.
One MR blogger declared this comment “pure feminist evil”; a conservative blogger compared Marcotte to the Beast of Babylon. Still other MRAs resorted to assorted variations on the c-word.
Marcotte has now responded to this, er, “criticism” with an excellent post on Pandagon. As she points out, correctly,
suicide and threats of suicide are common tactics used by abusers to hurt their victims. Abusers dramatically self-destruct all the time in their desperation to control and hurt the objects of their obsession. There was just recently a big story about this, in fact: Jason Valdez of Utah, who had a long criminal record that included domestic violence, held a woman hostage in a hotel room for 16 hours and kept updates about the situation on Facebook. He eventually committed suicide.
The notion that suicide can be a hostile, aggressive act designed to hurt other people is hardly a controversial one, whether the person committing suicide is male or female. Threats of suicide are often used to manipulate other people; suicide itself can be an act of revenge.
Marcotte goes on:
Apparently, I’m supposed to pretend that suicide isn’t a disruptive, selfish act in many cases (especially when the suicide victim commits it in a public and destructive way), and that people who do it, while yes victims of their own mental health problems, are also thinking that they’re going to make everyone pay for not indulging them. In fact, not only is this true in Ball’s case, but he spelled it out in his suicide note. The “make the bastards suffer” theme of his note is the reason that wingnuts are supporting him.
But you don’t have to take her word for it. Read Ball’s entire manifesto, to the end, and ask yourself if this man is an appropriate “martyr” for any political movement.
I cannot eat cookies. Why are you feminist always oppressing me?
Howdy, I am a very occasional poster but a loyal lurker. I just wanna say, a propos of nothing in particular, that Ami Angelwings is not only a genius, but also adorable and amazing, and I wish I could bake her a delicious pie of her choice. Because pie!
@Bee:
Awww… Would you like some of the [insert favorite snack here] I just made?
Thank you! I looooooooove [favorite snack]! You feminist are the best! Thanks, kirbywarp!
Also: BigKitty, you are correct.
I don’t think Amanda Marcotte is particularly hostile or sneering; I just don’t think MRAs are used to women talking to them like that.
Firstly, are you kidding? MRAs get roasted in the most vile ways imaginable on pretty much every feminist blog. They’re mocked and insulted and pissed on. Since feminists are mostly women, I’m pretty sure they’ve become accustomed to it.
Secondly, I’ve heard that line (from Marcotte herself and a few others) and I’m sorry for the language, but all I can say is bullshit. She (or at least, her blog-self) has a very prominent underlying meanness, nastiness, and rudeness, at least when she runs into something she disagrees with or someone she dislikes. It’s not just MRAs, either, it’s any “opposing force”. Did you read her comments on the Duke case? I’m not applauding those guys, clearly there were bad decisions all around, but she was literally calling for them to be clapped in irons without a trial (and in the process made some pretty misandrist statements).
Even though they have comparable views and are similar in many ways, I would far rather listen to Jessica Valenti speak than Marcotte. I don’t think anybody can accuse Valenti of pandering or “what about the menz”-ing, she is fairly hardcore with the feminist thing. I disagree with a hell of a lot of what she says, because I don’t really like third-wave feminism. But she’s also, for the most part, not needlessly sarcastic and mean when it comes to anyone who doesn’t completely toe the line with feminist rhetoric.
Oh my God, you’re right! I forgot that a woman’s primary role in life was to be pleasant.
This is the type of hypersensitivity that discredits feminism. No one likes an unpleasant person, male or female. No one likes to feel talked down to, or insulted, or demeaned, even if the speaker makes good points. Obama is hailed as a great orator not because of what he actually says (a great many liberals have said it all before him) but for how he says it. Or are women supposed to be exempt from petty concerns such as being polite? That doesn’t sound like feminism to me.
I don’t hate Amanda Marcotte. I’m sure she’s a fine person in real life. But I can’t say I like her writing. It’s weird, she comes across as a radfem (ie, short-tempered, intolerant, and unthinkingly misandrist) except she doesn’t actually hold radical feminist views.
PS- I thought the post linked to in the OP was pretty okay for Marcotte, and I actually agree with her views on Ball. I’m speaking generally.
@Sarah
Aw, shucks. Oh, and I will have a cookie.
I would totally bake a pie for Bee, too. And Kirby. You can’t have too many pies, IMHO.
Cookies for everyone! Yay! I should probably make more bread soon… Then we can have fresh baked bread as well!
hmm… NWO doesn’t like responding when he’s proved wrong.. does he?
@BigKitty:
Could it be… a chocolate pie? Cause that would make you at the very least the second best person on the planet.
Kirrby: He doesn’t like to answer my questions either, even though I answer his.
He answers women’s questions, but not mine.
Typical Misandrist. Women =worth talking too, Men =not worth talking to.
@Kirby – You betcha.
And FYI, all good pie-lovers, here’s the ultimate source: Mr. Tod’s Pie Factory! https://www.whybake.com/index.cfm
Bee, would it help if I mixed the cookie with milk so it got all slushy and you could suck it up through your proboscis?
*passes out cookies to everyone else*
@Pecunium he doesn’t answer my questions either xD (he’s learned his lesson xD ) women = good men = bad angels = run the f away
XD
@BigKitty awww :3 <3 I should bake YOU a pie! 😀 (or pumpkin bread! I bake a mean pumpkin bread :3 )
Sarah: YES! Everything should be sweet and made into a slurry. Or powdery, so I can pick it up with my furry legs and bring it back to my hive.
(See why I’m a feminist?)
@Ami – I luurrrve pumpkin bread! Multiple hugz to you if they’re welcome – you are awesome, funny and brilliant.
And thanks, BigKitty, for the pie offer! I’ll settle for a pet and an ear scritch. I love a big kitty!
@Michigan:
So you spend an entire post explaining how Marcotte is so mean to MRAs, and such a nasty, unpleasent person, and she really should keep her tone in check… Then say that the actual OP quotes aren’t that bad for her? And don’t even bother talking about the OP’s links to the MRA’s responses, calling her the “beast of babylon” and “pure feminist evil?”
Sorry for the language, but I call bullshit. What is your point, that although this particular example of Marcotte is not bad, everything else she writes is hateful… so… what? The MRAs are justified? What are you getting at?
“I don’t think Amanda Marcotte is particularly hostile or sneering; I just don’t think MRAs are used to women talking to them like that.”
This quote, to me, refers to Marcottes quoted posts, not all of her other writing. Perhaps MRAs are used to abuse, but does that excuse their response?
@Bee, I absolutely understand why you’re a feminist now. I just wish I was a better one. Nothing sticks to my furry legs, other then tape. And I can’t feed tape to my larva. =[
@ Bee: Prrrrr, prrrrr, prrrr. I love a sweet honeybee, too – and so should everyone. Bees are among the most precious animals in the whole ecosystem of Earth! Yay Bees!
Since the desserts have been taken care of, may I offer everyone some soup? It’s got artichokes and potatoes and garlic . . .
That sounds pretty damn good. I’ll take some soup.
@ Hippodameia – could you share the recipe? Sounds so delicious! I love you already.
He did some other fairly creepy things and my mom (who is prone to overreacting a LOT) told me that you can’t continue talking to stalkers because it gives them fuel to keep stalking. So I stopped talking to him suddenly. But was still in homeroom with him, which was fucking awkward. (Homeroom was the same for 4 years, but he was a year younger so I only had to deal with the awkwardness for almost 3 years …)
You sound like a real jackass, honestly. I mean he obviously handled it poorly but were you basically giving him the silent treatment? That’s pretty rude.
Adding a big platter of barbacued chicken (not barbacue sauce, basted with lemon butter) to the potluck! I saw grills on sale today and went a little charcoal crazy!
Thank you! *blush*
1 can quartered artichoke hearts (usually 13.75 oz)
3 cloves garlic, chopped
1 Tbls butter
1 baking potato, peeled and diced
4 cups vegtable stock (Knorr Vegtable Bullion is good)
Salt and Pepper to taste
In a large, heavy frying pan over medium heat, saute the artichoke hearts and garlic. Don’t brown them; just let them turn golden.
Add the diced potato and stock, bring to a boil, and then lower the heat. Cover the pan and simmer until the artichokes and potatoes are tender. This should take about ten minutes, but nothing bad will happen if it simmers longer.
In a blender or food processor, puree the vegtables with some of the liquid from the soup. If the veggies are remaining stubbornly whole, add more liquid.
Return the veggies to the frying pan, stir to mix, and heat through. Add the salt and pepper and serve.
This recipe is from “The Vegetarian Bistro” by Marlena Spieler. I’ve modified it a bit, mostly by reducing the butter from three tablespoons to one. (It tastes really good with three tablespoons, though!) I really like the recipe because it cooks quickly and with some bread it makes a nice dinner.
Enjoy!