Amanda Marcotte, feminist blogger and Friend of Man Boobz, has been taking a lot of shit from MRAs – and I mean a LOT of shit – for a comment she made here on the Thomas Ball suicide.
As you may already know, Ball burned himself to death outside a New Hampshire courthouse. In a lengthy manifesto he wrote shortly before killing himself, he portrayed his suicide as a protest against a corrupt family court system, and went on to argue that MRAs should quite literally assemble some Molotov cocktails and “start burning down police stations and courthouses.” (You can read the whole manifesto here.) Despite his calls for violence many MRAs have hailed him as an MRA martyr.
Marcotte, in her comment here, suggested that there might have been other, more personal reasons for his suicide – namely, the desire to hurt his ex-wife:
I’ll point out that setting yourself on fire is an extremely effective tool if your goal is to make your ex-wife’s life a living hell, and if your anger at losing control over her overwhelms all other desires. Which is common enough with abusers, who will ruin their own lives and their own shit and turn their children against them in an effort to hurt the woman they’ve fixated on.
One MR blogger declared this comment “pure feminist evil”; a conservative blogger compared Marcotte to the Beast of Babylon. Still other MRAs resorted to assorted variations on the c-word.
Marcotte has now responded to this, er, “criticism” with an excellent post on Pandagon. As she points out, correctly,
suicide and threats of suicide are common tactics used by abusers to hurt their victims. Abusers dramatically self-destruct all the time in their desperation to control and hurt the objects of their obsession. There was just recently a big story about this, in fact: Jason Valdez of Utah, who had a long criminal record that included domestic violence, held a woman hostage in a hotel room for 16 hours and kept updates about the situation on Facebook. He eventually committed suicide.
The notion that suicide can be a hostile, aggressive act designed to hurt other people is hardly a controversial one, whether the person committing suicide is male or female. Threats of suicide are often used to manipulate other people; suicide itself can be an act of revenge.
Marcotte goes on:
Apparently, I’m supposed to pretend that suicide isn’t a disruptive, selfish act in many cases (especially when the suicide victim commits it in a public and destructive way), and that people who do it, while yes victims of their own mental health problems, are also thinking that they’re going to make everyone pay for not indulging them. In fact, not only is this true in Ball’s case, but he spelled it out in his suicide note. The “make the bastards suffer” theme of his note is the reason that wingnuts are supporting him.
But you don’t have to take her word for it. Read Ball’s entire manifesto, to the end, and ask yourself if this man is an appropriate “martyr” for any political movement.
Ami Angelwings said: I have abs no problem w/ the “we’re taking our ball and going home” guys either, I mean ideally, I would like a society where everybody participates and is happy, but I mean if you’re unhappy, that’s a good way to protest (like taking your business elsewhere)
It’s already happening, darling. Look at the male-female ratio in colleges today. Thats an awful lot of guys who’ve already left the rat race. The “real” male unemployment rate now (including underemployment) is around 20%. Look at falling marriage and birth rates. Look at the national debt.
Male suicide rates are 5 times the rate of females. 90% of prisoners are male, and most of them are sons of single moms. It’s a brave new world, baby. Enjoy.
What’s w/ the darling and baby? o_O So… this is all b/c men are opting out?
See, I think you have the cause and effect thing rly wrong xD (but amazingly I’m not calling you condescending things xD ) But again, I think you’re wrong, so it doesn’t rly matter 🙂 You can be happy that society is crumbling, and I can keep working on helping society the way I believe, and if in the end it all is how you say (rather than claiming sekrit credit for things) explodes, you can always tell me you told me so xD
Am I the only person who thinks less men going to college is a good thing? Because college is basically a total ripoff unless you’re going to be a doctor/lawyer/scientist? Personally I wish more women would catch on to this, it could bring down the whole Ponzi scheme a lot faster.
Amy Angelwings said: What’s w/ the darling and baby? o_O So… this is all b/c men are opting out?
Remember, I’m a misogynist. Bad, bad misogynist!!
BTW, I never said I was “happy” that society is crumbling, only that it is.
Oh, “darling” and “baby” are just his special way of being patronizing and condescending. God forbid anyone should forget he’s the man and has to talk down to our tiny ladybrains.
hellkell,
Have I offended you too? Oh my. That was so not my intention. Oh wait, yes it was.
Speedlines said: “Am I the only person who thinks less men going to college is a good thing? Because college is basically a total ripoff unless you’re going to be a doctor/lawyer/scientist?
You’re absolutely right of course, except that a college degree is becoming the price of admission to any high-paying job. Men are dissappearing from college, which can only accelerate men’s future unemployment. Many women think this is a good thing now, but they may change their minds later when they can’t find a good man to marry and divorce. How will men pay their child support and alimony in the future?
This could turn out really bad for women. Working for a living isn’t really all that much fun, you know.
I don’t take such a dim view. What I predict is a rise in skilled trades, as more and more people wake up to the fact that white collar =/= high paying. Unless you’re planning on being an investment banker or something.
Well, “darlin'” would make him Wolverine, and “baby” would make him George Costanza.
Well, they’re both short, stocky, hairy (albeit, not everywhere in George’s case) and ill-tempered.
“I’m the best at what I do, and what I do is pretend to be an architect!”
@Buck Swamp
“Remember, I’m a misogynist. Bad, bad misogynist!!”
You make yourself sound like a dog who just widdled on the carpet. 😛
@Bee:
If you are going to nitpick over how Marcotte does not use the words “my opinion”, then is it not odd to argue over Marcotte not using the words “this is fact”? Regarding Ball’s comments, I stand corrected. As for who will feel guilty over his death, since we do not know the state of their relationship with Ball we cannot assume his ex-wife or children care what he did, let alone feel guilty over it.
I would like to think there is sympathy for Ball, but little here suggests that. In its place of sympathy is an odd relishing of Ball’s suicide. I do not agree with people turning Ball into a martyr, yet I also do not agree with people turning Ball into a scapegoat.
@Bee and Pecunium:
In his suicide note Ball stated that his ex-wife made a decision to protect their children from the state which in turn punished him. Unless you consider telling his version of what occurred as implying blame, there is nothing in his comments that blames his daughter or ex-wife.
@Pecunium and VoiP:
Here is an example of Marcotte’s bigotry: “The entire letter is worth reading, because it’s a snapshot into the way that right wing propaganda and the online anti-feminist community (which anti-domestic violence activists have nicknamed the ‘abuser lobby’) can work on the mind of a mentally ill person and send them over the edge.”
Here is another: “Ball killed himself in a fit of obsession over a divorce that happened ten years ago, but which he continued to fight and bemoan, and his obsession was clearly fueled by his engagement with the online anti-feminist community.”
She compares Ball to groups she dislikes in order to deride Ball’s reasons for committing suicide, leading the reader to view Ball’s suicide and his complaints as anti-feminist, right-wing stupidity.
Toysoldier: where exactly do you see “relishing” of his death here?
Speedlines,
Maybe, but since manufacturing in the US is in steep decline, skilled trades ain’t what they used to be. I don’t think it will be enough to finance the matriarchy.
Spearhafoc,
I may be misunderstanding your post, but I get the impression that you don’t find me physically attractive, which pretty much destroys all of my previous comments. I am utterly devastated by your wit, and I can think of no suitable rejoinder. Oh wait, I have one: your penis is small. Touche!
@MollyRen
Actually, if he were really a bad misogynist, he wouldn’t say misogynistic things. A good misogynist would.
@Buck Swamp Seriously, being a misogynist is so cool and edgy. People have only believed women were inferior for hundreds of years. Look at you, being all rebellious! 😀
Molly Ren,
Widdled?
@Buck Swamp: Widdled.
Molly Ren said: @Buck Swamp Seriously, being a misogynist is so cool and edgy. People have only believed women were inferior for hundreds of years. Look at you, being all rebellious!
I’ve never been called cool and edgy before. Who knew? Thanks and good night!
Try the veal!
xD
Drat, he left before I could work in a snorgle reference.
It’s ok XD He might have exploded if you continued xD There was a lot of “I’m not angry, I’m laughing… LAAUUGGHHINNNGGG no rly! stop looking at my nose bleed!” thing w/ him xD
Actually…
I should make a card! xD
Wait… does this mean I got a troll to flounce? :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I feel like I should get an award.
I’ll get you a pizza trophy in a bit, Molly Ren but let’s make sure he’s left first. Sometimes the flounce doesn’t quite take and they come back for more.
It’s weird that he didn’t get that stating that Amanda didn’t say “This is fact” in her blog post was a parallel to his argument that since she didn’t use the word “opinion” she must have meant what she wrote to be read as fact. I assumed his head would explode from the nuance, after he realized that she used neither word. Crap.
Maybe this shallow dish of beer will act as troll bait. We’ll get ‘un.
@David Futrelle:
I see it in the willingness to grossly misrepresent Ball’s reasons for committing suicide. I also see it in the willingness to use that misrepresentation to attack those who agree with Ball’s opinions regarding family courts. It is not just that people have done it, but that they smugly do it and seem to genuinely enjoy minimizing a man’s suicide to support their own views.