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Happy Pride Day, non-existent gay men!

Well, you're no lady. But I guess you'll do.

Today, as many of you no doubt know, is Gay Pride Day. Here in Chicago, that means the annual Pride Parade, a celebration of all things LGBTQetc — and a nice aerobic workout for parade participants. (Gyrating on a float for three hours dressed in a leather harness and thong will burn roughly 1000 calories. But beware of chafing!)

Rookh Kshatriya, proprieter of the Anglobitch blog (devoted to the notion that women in the Anglosphere are, well, bitches), has evidently decided to celebrate Pride Weekend by offering us all his theories on gay male sexuality. Which is to say, his theory that there is no such thing as gay male sexuality, and that all those gay men out marching today would much rather be spending their Sunday eating bagels and doing the New York Times crossword puzzle with some comely (non-lesbian) lasses.

Yep, in Rookh’s World, gay men – or, as he puts it, “gay” men — are actually nothing more than exceptionally horny straight men who have been unfairly denied sex-on-demand with women of their choosing.

Let’s let him explain this:

Despite their rhetoric about lifestyles and the contemplation of flowers, gay men are clearly entranced by orgasm to an extent far surpassing that of heterosexual men.

Alas, in our Feminazified world, women sometimes refuse to have sex with men. Deprived a natural outlet for their sexy urges, horny dudes have to, well, improvise a bit. Why try to finagle your way into a vagina assiduously guarded by some dumb lady, when other dudes just as horny as you have holes of their own available for the asking?

As Rookh  sees it, these uber-horny dudes really have no other choice.

[A]re most gay men just hyper-sexualized males – a self-selecting group whose priapic urges can only be satisfied by rejecting the relative sexual deprivation inescapably attendant on heterosexuality? The more one considers this possibility, the more plausible it seems. Even some badass with the looks of Apollo, the Game of Roissy and the confidence of a warlord would struggle to enter a nightclub and say: “I want sex NOW!” and expect to get it.

A terrible, terrible injustice. But there is a way out:

Yet homosexual men can enter any gay bath house in any Anglosphere city, say the very same words and expected to be sexually serviced by several men in a matter of minutes! In short, the sexual mismatch between the sexes makes the heterosexual lifestyle a poor option for any hyper-sexualized male – a non-option, in fact, if he wants to fully slake his sexual thirsts. By contrast, adopting homosexuality allows him to instantly indulge his every sexual whim in every manner conceivable.

Unless, of course, these whims involve sex with, you know, women. But lust is apparently stronger than mere sexual orientation. As Rookh sees it, homosexuality is the only rational choice for uber-horny men – even if they’d rather be boning women.

Since sex is so scarce and difficult to acquire in a heterosexual context, it simply makes no sense for an Anglo-American male with priapic urges to remain heterosexual – hence the self-selection of hyper-sexualized males towards homosexual lifestyles, not to mention the hyper-sexualized nature of homosexuality itself.

Is this all a prelude to a touching coming-out announcement by our man Rookh?

No such luck. It’s actually an excuse for, yes, more feminism-bashing. For it is the evil feminists who, in Rookh’s world, have been  encouraging the “female sexual ostracism” of poor suffering straight men:

As we all know, women seek to control men by limiting sexual supply, be it representational (pornography) or actual (prostitution) – and that feminism is, essentially, an institution created for that purpose.

And so, in Rookh’s world,

homosexuality has advanced in lock-step with feminism. … [F]eminism – by assailing marital monogamy and allowing women to indulge their primordial attraction to dangerous thugs, moronic bullies and swaggering plutocrats – produced an unwanted ‘rump’ of educated, economically stable but sexually disenfranchised males. Given that gay males are disproportionately intelligent, solvent and educated, it is fairly obvious that members of this group have opted for homosexuality as a means of escaping the living death of involuntary celibacy, that the two phenomena are in fact closely related and that feminism is directly responsible for the advancement of homosexuality across the Anglosphere.

Feminism, by encouraging women to say “no” when they don’t actually want to have sex, may have created modern homosexuality, in Rookh’s view. But that doesn’t mean that feminists actually like gay dudes. No. Ick!

[T]he vast majority of Anglo females detest gay men as vehemently as they hate men in general.  … the real link between pan-Anglosphere feminism and homosexuality [is that] the latter is a reaction to the former, which hates it with boundless counter-reactionary zeal.

Yeah, seems to me that the only one here who really “detest[s] gay men” is, well, Rookh, so much so that he’s decided to completely erase gay male sexuality – to put “gay” in scare quotes – in order to give himself another opportunity to run down feminists and women in general.

Now, human sexuality is a weird, messy, complicated, wonderful thing. It may well be that some bisexual men end up having sex with men more often than with women because they find it easier to find male sex partners for casual sex. But guys who are thoroughly gay – who would score a 6 on the famous Kinsey scale – don’t actually want to have sex with women. They really don’t. Drop a beautiful, eligible, horny (straight or mostly straight) woman in the midst of a bunch of Kinsey 6 guys, and this is what you get:

Court’s free!

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Lyn
Lyn
10 years ago

What phoey – I am pretty sure that there’s a whole thing about not financially supporting texts/products that are ethically problematic!

And Ami – I think you’re spot on with the WoT thing…it totally resembles the world that many MRAs think is the one we live in.

Lyn
Lyn
10 years ago

Good point Johnny.

*goes to heat up some good and buttery popcorn*

😉

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

the problem is i control my binging urges (and hoarding urges that come from my body being in starvation mode) thru compulsive exercising (so I feel like I’m ALLOWED to eat food, after, but after I’m done it wastes enuf time and energy that I dun feel like eating.. so it’s a trap : ) or by chewing and spitting… and that’s rly gross (and tmi) i know 🙁 but I won’t allow myself to swallow : I have trouble swallowing food in general on bad days even when I can get myself to eat 🙁

*hugs you tight* I rly get you on being afraid to gain weight.. sometimes it’s not even LOGICAL or you KNOW that it’s not, but it’s so scary.. and sometimes I dun even think it’s that… I think it’s (at least for me) based on much deeper issues, but it manifests as an ED and fear of gaining weight in many women cuz of the narratives we’ve so absorbed, about how it’s tied to our worth as a person, how it’s a way to get “success” and gain control… for me that’s what it started as… cuz after… what .. he did to me… I needed to feel like I was in control of SOMETHING, and it became proving that I CAN take the pain of not eating, that I CAN control my body (it also tied in w/ my gender issues… and feeling like being “big” was being “male”) and feeling like.. I’m succeeding over every other woman out there.. that I can run 4 hours a day without giving up (did it striaght for 2 years until my knees finally gave out 🙁 i can’t run nemore : ) that I can go w/o eating… and it also made me feel pure.. and killed my sex drive (which meant I wasn’t being triggered) and etc :

A health journal sounds like a good idea :] maybe I should try that… if you ever need to talk or nething about this btw, we can trade contact info or something :] it might help to have somebody who is also struggling w/ this? like it might help to get somebody telling you to fight those feelings and msgs our brains are giving us about not eating or that everything will fall off a cliff if we gain a pound, even if that somebody deosn’t rly believe it herself.. :

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@Kate no! but I am now going to look it up in my library! I’m always rly interested in how things shaped Canadian culture and attitudes :3 It explains so much of how narratives and interactions are now (I love reading books about hockey culture and how it ties w/ Canada too, and I tend to think a lot about that too xD )

Simone Lovelace
10 years ago

Ami, I didn’t realize you were bisexual! Come join the internet cupcake party! XD

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

Yay! I am many things xD

M Dubz
M Dubz
10 years ago

Oh man, ladies *hugs* it is really hard going through issues with food and eating and body image and they SUCK SO HARD.

In recent years, I have gone from being a curvy, slightly overweight lady to a curvy, full on fat lady (caused mostly by my recently diagnosed insulin resistance). And I have to say, while they talk mostly about being a fat lady in society, the Fat Acceptance Movement has a lot of positive things to say about body acceptance and food, and many people who post on these sites are women with eating disorders who have been helped by reading about Fat Acceptance. I’d recommend these blogs as really great tools for thinking about food and body size.

The Fat Nutritionist has a lot of great things to say about eating for pleasure, for nutrition, etc. She’s very body positive, and talks a lot about listening to your internal cues.

Shapely Prose was my first ever Fat Acceptance blog. They talk a lot about feminism, and the intersection of fat and feminism. Currently defunct, but lots of great archives.

The Rotund features lovely pictures of lovely fat ladies rocking their bad selves. She also has a lot of great stuff on the politics of body shaming.

Kate
Kate
10 years ago

Oh, and Pierre Burton’s last televised appearance before he died? Was on Rick Mercer’s show… where he did a bit about how to properly roll a joint of marijuana… he was a cool cat and he is eminently readable! The conclusion of Vimy was thinking about the waste of all the men who went to the war thinking it was the next great adventure. The men who had opened the west and built the railways and rushed for gold… the adventurers and risk takers… almost all of whom died in the war or came back very risk averse and how that ultimately shaped Canada as a whole… and much of his writing is as insightful as that, imo… certainly worth picking up.

M Dubz
M Dubz
10 years ago

Shit, the Shapely Prose link didn’t work. Here’s the URL: http://kateharding.net/

Pecunium
10 years ago

Dave: That’s weird, but I can almost swear I’ve met that guy. In any case I have an old acquaintance (not that guy) who was in a fire as a kid. He’s got similar burn problems (and he has troubles in hot weather, he’s only got about 50 percent of his body with any sweat glands).

He’s never had touble getting friends. He’s had some people blanche when they meet him, but he just drives on.

Pecunium
10 years ago

MRAL: re clothes. I like to dress well. I’ve owned suits (time and moths and storage are not my friends). I was lucky, given my build, that someone who like to dress well was donating them to a local thrift store. I could afford to wait, because there wasn’t much of anyone else who both wanted them, and could wear them.

So the three-piece suits cost me about 15 bucks each (x3) and I got about six sport coats for a dollar. I think I splurged and spent 15 dollars for a white linen coat, which is a tad too large. It was ok in the early nineties, but styles have shifted.

But slacks and a polo shirt/button down are always going to go over tolerably well. chinos in the summer.

Re books: If I didn’t own books, I’d be so much happier about moving. As it is… I don’t know how many I own, but you can tell this is serious romance, because the three of us are looking at consolidating our libraries.

Which isn’t likely to reduce the number of books in the house by more than a couple of hundred, and those mostly fiction.

But books are tools of power. Back in ’99, when I was at the Battalion Soldier of the Year Board (a massively stressful exam on soldierly stuff, and trivia, and deportment) I was told by one of the other soldiers that he knew he was going to lose when he asked me about the book I was reading while we were waiting. It was Harold Petroski’s, “The Pencil” which was a book about engineering, using the pencil; and it’s entire history, as the guiding paradigm. He said anyone who could be reading a book that thick about pencils, and be calm, was too smart/in control for him to beat.

Kate
Kate
10 years ago

Correction. I’ve been spelling his name wrong, it’s Pierre B*E*rton… and here’s the amazon link to Why we act like Canadians

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

I read that book about pencils. I couldn’t believe how interesting it could be, going into depth about something as seemingly simple as a pencil. Couldn’t put it down.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@M Dubz Kate Harding and the fat acceptance blogs actually RLY helped me a lot when I was rly rly bad into it : I found the ED support group I was at not v helpful at all cuz they had a lot of conflicting EDs in the group and it wasn’t moderated that well and a lot of the ppl had opposite issues and were talking about strategies that they use to CONTROL not eating, and it was so hard for me cuz I was alrdy using a lot of those to keep from eating : and I couldn’t stay : and int he media so much is obesity epidemic, and even w/ anorexia, it’s like “oh it’s just these ‘crazy’ ppl” and very superficial narratives about models or fashion magazines (which is why ppl always react to hearing about EDs w/ “it’s so ridic that women are so weak they look at a magazine and want to starve” or “feminism is blaming fashion magazines for causing EDs!” or etc) and there’s always this “okay, don’t get an ED, that’s bad.. but don’t EAT TOO MUCH” thing too :

so the fat acceptance stuff was rly helpful in helping me figure out the msgs my brain was taking, and how to combat those… even tho they aren’t being directed at me in the same way that it’s hitting women who are bigger than me : but I still feel like they are (but nobody’s ACTUALLY saying it to me)… I’m always rly careful tho to not come off like it’s all about me : I know that society DOES treat me differently, even tho I can’t see that in the mirror and I know ppl understand EDs and stuff, and that thin women don’t have perfect lives either, so I dun do and I always make sure that I’m not doing the “what about us thin girlz!” thing or nething :

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

Does the pressure and emphasis on weight vary according to, say, middle/working class, or city/country, or by age, or do you find it’s pretty much the same across the board?

Pecunium
10 years ago

MRAL: This is why you need the therapy. Because it’s not one thing for any of us. My fingers are crooked (typical of folks from that part of the world; my grandmothers’ sides of the family). I am skinny. I have slightly crooked teeth. There’s the eyes thing. I’ve got a slightly deformed toe from the medical problem that got me rated disabled.

There’s how skinny I am. I am self-conscious about my singing voice. I worry that I am socially clueless at times…

Everyone is a mess of talents and weaknesses. Most of of us manage to deal with it. That you see it as being crippling… that needs outside help.

these are me

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pecunium/2091534248/in/set-72157605982702933

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pecunium/2091534248/in/set-72157605982702933

I don’t have any which really show me in what I think of as a bad light, but I don’t do shorts. Legs like sticks.

This is me a little bit before i got medevacced from Iraq.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pecunium/2636319956/in/set-72157605982702933

Lyn
Lyn
10 years ago

Thx Ami *hugs you back*!

It sounds like, on the spectrum, my issues are similar but the degree and symptoms are mild. I can’t fathom how difficult it would be to have your trans identity hinging on this as well – and I can totally get wanting to kill your sex drive too 🙁 For me it’s related to this d00d I was with for five years…I was molested when I was quite young and this guy helped me get over it, regain trust and relax to the point where I could actually enjoy sex (and I’m a serious nympho – repressing that made me pretty nuts). But he slowly started treating me like shit – we both had parents who were in dysfunctional relationships so we just reproduced the relationships we knew – and he cheated on me toward the end of my Honours year…after I’d put on some weight cos of the intense study. We broke up and he turned on me big time – everything I’d said and trusted him with he used against me. Like, everything! Whew. So, I associate both working hard on my study and weight gain with EVIL and trauma. This makes life difficult!

The thing is, I find it much easier to lose weight when that isn’t the goal, when it’s actually about health and when I already feel smexy and just want to get a bit fitter so that I can do functional things, like walk up the stairs without getting puffed, or being able to pick up a pot full of food without having to worry about spilling it. But, with our culture being the way it is, where weight loss is often conflated with health (even though, duh, it’s a symptom of many illnesses!) it’s hard to forget about it. And then the guilt train again. Sigh.

As for PMing – I have found you on fb and will friend you 🙂

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

I think there’s prolly better sources and research out there for that than nebody here : (and off hand, I dunno any one source, you’d prolly have to look around and there’d have to be a lot of different readings :3 ) I did not grow up in every single city, country, time period and culture at once unfortunately xD

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@Lyn *hugs* I’m so sorry for that dude.. that’s so awful 🙁 to have somebody you trust turn on you and use things you trusted him w/ against you :

and yay! FB! 😀

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
10 years ago

ithiliana: I finally broke down and got a kindle. My experience has been pretty good, even after I wrecked the charger on the machine and had to get two new ones because of some weird programming error on the first new one.)

So first, the good: they have this awesome ink thingie that helps with viewing it in all sorts of lighting. The customer service has been great and yes you can fit a lot of books on there, 13 dumped his entire collection onto mine right before we left for California and I brought it with me to read while standing in line. Since I finished one book I was able to start right away on another without having to carry both. It lets you do the PDF thing (I keep my stuff related to the sovereign citizen movement there.)

The bad: I love books the physical books-which means I am double buying, a kindle version and a paper version (trying mightily to keep it confined to beloved authors and personal friends though.) Also, Amazon is apparently evil and also uses DRM or whatever so you cannot transfer. I am not tech competent enough to remove it so I just buy the books on 13’s computer and let him deal with it. I would think a doctoral student in electrical engineer can handle that much. 😛 Yes he is reading this. Now if he would just let me open my gift now…it is midnight somewhere so my birthday has already started!

Kave
Kave
10 years ago

As always I am late to the party (I’ll never get a card) but I’ve read through the thread and noticed one rather glaring issue in the original post that really makes no sense to me that no one else has addressed (none of it makes sense, but this hasn’t been spoken about).

“Let us consider another aspect of homosexuality – the vaunted ‘giftedness’ of gay men. Short and dirty IQ tests generally suggest that gay men are the sexual orientation whose median IQ ranks highest. A self-evident observation across the Anglosphere (especially in the United States) is that women actively dislike males of high intelligence, preferring swaggering thugs and moronic misfits”

I thought women prefer alpha men? Now this might make sense in high school where the quarterback gets the girl and he may or may not have a jock brain but once we are out of high school isn’t the alpha the man with a high earning potential and good looks? Even if we are talking drug kingpins they become this way because they are smart enough to know how to make money-hence attract the alpha or beta female who is only interested in their alpha status.

Wouldn’t moronic misfits fit squarely into mral’s ideal of the omega man? Why wasn’t mral all over this as an affront to his dearly loved misconceptions of human relationships?

Btw, if I had to picture an ideal woman she would be model thin and no more then a b cup at most. My wife is a 34F. Besides her teasing me that her breasts are completely under appreciated by myself this has in no way lessened my thinking that she is incredibly sexy. She also wishes I would be bisexual, so we’re pretty even.

P.S Ami.. If I do ever get a card… could I be the Rockerfeller type mangina who is throwing cash to back feminism? I don’t post enough to deserve one but I would like to picture myself as a kinda daddy warbucks for the fight against the poor defenseless mra’s if I did.

Lyn
Lyn
10 years ago

M Dubz – thanks for the recommendations! I’ve been trying to get onto the fat acceptance blogosphere but just random googling doesn’t necessarily help with finding the good ones!

M Dubz
M Dubz
10 years ago

@Ami- I’m so glad that Shapely Prose helped you out! I think women in our society, no matter how thin or fat or whatever size they are, there’s always this message of denial and perfection, that we’re supposed to take up no space (by which I mean not only thin, but passive and sweet and not demanding anyone’s time or energy and giving all the time) and it hurts thin women and fat women. We all have our shit that is unique to our bodies, whether it’s race or height or size of boobs or ability status (terminology?) or whatever. And we should all be allies. Because lord knows, these bodies are the only ones we have and we should make it easier to love and cherish them.

@Magpie- the Rotund has a great series up recently about “passing” for middle class and being fat. For me, living in NY, thin is very much tied up here as part of one’s identity as a New Yorker. You’re supposed to be thin and chic and successful, and being fat sort of negates the perfect image of a successful member of the city’s elite (then again, I’m young, white, relatively interested in clothes, and employed full time). I’m sure it’s different based on age/geography/ etc.

Pecunium
10 years ago

I wish I was at home right now, I have some pretty good books on canadian history (mostly military, but there is a lot of overlap). My fiancé is dual citizen, and one of my former partners (at whose wedding my fianc&eactute;e and I met) is a Loyalist Canadian,and one hella-wicked fan of canadian history.

But I’m housesitting, so I’m not sure I can get to them right now. In a week they will all be (I hope) packed away.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@Kave I’ll ttlly make one of you! Everybody deserves one! :3 I just have a bit of a backlog xD

and that’s also something I’ve always wondered… who’s the alpha males? the star athletes? or the owners who pay them? the hot studly handyman, or the guy w/ the money who can afford to get him to fix up the house for him?

I think that’s why we get guys like DKM who come up w/ the ideas that women never age past their young teens (or below) b/c then it’s just that we can’t think long term and we’re always stuck in HS where we just want the football jocks >_>

what’s interesting is that in places where video gaming is big, like Korea, you get the same sort of dynamic with women cheering on game players xD so while some evo psych ppl will be happy cuz to them it can prove that it’s all about status, the “dumb thug jocks” contingent would be left out in the cold w/ that xD

Lyn
Lyn
10 years ago

Magpie – I found this on the site M Dubz linked and it is about class and location and negotiating the body image thing: http://www.therotund.com/?p=1174 It might be of interest 🙂

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@M Dubz I also know that there’s often a myth (kinda like w/ gay and trans ppl too) in other cultures and ethnicities that EDs are a white/american girl problem (also that EDs are simply a female problem) or a middle class problem, or etc : I know in the Chinese comm, growing up, it was always like OTHER ppl (read: white ppl) were gay… cuz white culture is irresponsible and they raise their kids poorly… EDs are a white girl thing.. not us… never us.. etc :

M Dubz
M Dubz
10 years ago

@Lyn- *hugs* for your shitty ex, and for your experience as a child. There’s something so breathtakingly cruel about people who purport to love you using your weaknesses against you, to make you hurt. I went through something similar where I was gaining weight like crazy despite diet and exercise (this was before I was diagnosed with insulin resistance), and my ex dumped me in part because of the weight gain. It took me a looooooong time to get back on track with body acceptance. And I hope you are also working towards loving yourself, because from what I can tell here, you are super awesome!

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

Thanks M Dubz. I’m working class, and it sort of feels like a different emphasis amongst my friends to what some of the more middle class people describe.
I apologise to everybody if I am being rude today. I missed a couple of days pills, and took one this morning. Hence commenting. And irrelevance. And incoherence. Ami, how do you write a silly, dreamy smile?
I love youse all!

M Dubz
M Dubz
10 years ago

@ Ami- Yeah, for real. And it’s SO not the truth. Toxic culture hurts everyone 🙁

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@M Dubz the control, not take up space thing is something that I wrote alot about too during my rly bad days when I used writing to try to help myself deal w/ what was going on : Also the idea of women needing to control our desires… I mean it’s been a narrative that’s been around for all sorts of other things in other time periods too.. (and even now) women controlling their sexuality… otherwise it’ll be scary and dangerous and out of control… controlling our anger (“hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”) …men get mad, but women we either have to control it or it’ll be out there like crazy and we’ll be 100000x worse : and controlling our appetite feels very similar to the idea of women needing to watch our desires : Men get pushed the opposite way a lot too : like eat LOTS, LOTS, otherwise you’re a girl.. eating salads is for girls! meat! MEAT! (a lot of burger commercials are like this) and I always am amused by the pizza commercial that says cheeseburger pizzas are for men b/c “eating one food at a time is something girls do” : My guy friends growing up were always so concerned that if they didn’t eat all meat pizzas it made them wusses, and they would make fun of male vegetarians, or etc : (or me)

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@Magpie hmmm :3 I like that one xD it’s not rly dreamy per se, but I think it’s kinda silly… it’s like a silly cat grin 🙂

M Dubz
M Dubz
10 years ago

@ Magpie, not being rude. You brought up a totally excellent point! Everything intersects, and makes for different experiences with some overarching similarities. Your experience with weight is not mine, is not Lyn’s, is not Ami’s, but all of us are struggling against some seriously toxic messages. And the more we talk about them, the more compassion and understanding there is. And our world is sadly in need of some serious compassion.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@Magpie you weren’t being rude. I’m sry if I came off as : I just was concerned I was being asked to be an expert on the entire thing or something :

M Dubz
M Dubz
10 years ago

@ Ami- oh man! I love ALL THE MEAT FOOD. Does that mean I’m not a proper lady?

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@M Dubz it depends, do you eat combination foods evar? xD

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

M Dubz and Lyn: that link was really interesting, I hadn’t realised there could be an attitude that fat = lower class = bad. It’s the lower class = bad bit that surprises me when I read comments on the internet from US people, I don’t come across that in real life.
Ami I like the dopey cat grin :3 I’m sitting here with my dopey cat and we’re both grinning. I think I get what you mean about how ED can be about controlling at least part of your life. I don’t have words for it, but I think sometimes it can also feel like “evening things out”, to make things just, or fair. I don’t know how to express that idea.

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

Ami, you never come off as :/ I was meaning to ask a general question of everybody, cause we all have different experience.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@Magpie I didn’t mean that it was universal amongst everybody of course :] I was talking of me, and other ppl who have trauma and then end up w/ an ED to cope : I was just using it as an example of the simplicity of the ED narrative in our society, that it’s an ends to itself, while often it’s a means to an end :

But once you start it, once your body gets into starvation mode and you lose the hunger reflex, it becomes way more than psychological : which is something else that’s not in the narrative… it’s like the studies involving ppl in starvation mode : your mind literally focuses on food every single moment (which is why I ttlly emphasized and was very honest in it, w/ NWO cuz I rly understand that) and for me, it meant I got caught in this cycle, where focusing on food made me fele like I had to exercise more, and NOT eat more, not give in at all, and then I’d focus on food for more, and I literally couldn’t think of NETHING much every day but that 🙁 and sometimes I would break down and cry :

(that wasn’t directed at you btw Magpie, is just something that came from what I was thinking of : )

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@Magpie yeah class intersects w/ these narratives a lot too 😐 in other generations and other cultures, it was the opposite… where being thin meant lower class and meant bad : cuz it meant that you couldn’t afford food 😐 (you prolly knew that alrdy :3 )

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

Um… now I think I might have insulted US people – sorry.

M Dubz
M Dubz
10 years ago

*possible trigger warning for talking about my food choices?*

@ Ami- Actually it’s really interesting, because I used to eat a more carb heavy diet, and am trying to give that up for one based on protein and veggies and whole grains because they won’t make my insulin do craaaaaaazy things. So I eat a lot of stir fry/curry/salads with meat in them type things. Just another example of how life and diet is not one size fits all. Like, if I were to eat a “girlie” diet I would be really cranky and low blood sugar-y.

@Magpie- I think a lot of the class bullshit in this country has to do with our bootstraps myth. Like, if you can’t work your way into an upper middle-class existence, there’s something WRONG with you, because you’re not WORKING hard enough. Which is just bullshit, for so many reasons.

darksidecat
darksidecat
10 years ago

@Magpie, in my experience, as a fat genderqueer person in the US, fat hate is worse in upperclass cultural spaces than it is in lower income spaces. I tend to be a pretty shameless fat person, but it is in wealthier spaces that an issue tends to be made of it the most. It’s not that there is never any fat hate in lower income spaces, but it is not nearly as common or as severe. Also, I am not very old (I’m 22) and I have noticed a trend towards it getting worse back home, which is a rural mostly white low income area. I don’t know if that is just the intensifying rhetoric about the “war on obesity” taking its toll. Though the poor folks still seem to define fat less stringently as well, even now. I am considered chubby in poor spaces, but very, very fat in wealthy ones. I do know one low income guy who plays the “no fatties” line who I have never seen dating a woman who weighed less than a solid 200 lbs. I am always like “dude, your current girlfriend is 5 foot and at least 250lbs, you so date fat people”. And he is consistent, he turns down any girl who isn’t heavy. It can get sort of hilarious, because the dominant (read upperclass) narrative is that fat is bad and unsexy, so they just redefine very heavy people as not fat. I am not so conscious of myself as fat, and of that as something that will be judged negatively, when I am not in upperclass spaces. In any case, poor people’s spaces feel far safer to me as a fat person.

Music time (because I am in that sort of mood recently):

Tying it in with the original subject (sort of)

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

A little story for no particular reason: At my work, when the women wanted to compliment me, they would say ” you’re so slim” or “i wish i was thin like you” or “you’ve lost weight”. It was meant nicely, and I took it that way, but was a little bit embarrassed. One day I quietly explained to one of my workmates that when I lost weight, it meant I wasn’t well. From then on when they want to compliment me they say “you’re looking well!”. I feel good when they say it to me, and that’s one of the things I say to others as a compliment, too.

amandajane5
amandajane5
10 years ago

@Ami – I hope I’m in the backlog! I did ask, but it was days ago and I don’t remember which thread.

And y’all can seriously call me AJ – my name is neither Amanda nor Jane – I should clarify my icon which has my AJ on it, but doesn’t seem to render well here, as it was designed for LJ. But that is me and my Beta? Omega? Self doing something very, very fannish. Extra points for anyone who can ID what it is. 🙂

RE: eating – I’ve become a spitter because I literally can’t swallow – neck surgery, and then the Cushing’s inflating my neck and throat, so I look at good food, think, I’ma swallow this and nourish my body! And then, I…actually can’t do that, what’s the polite thing to do?

I should get off the ‘puter for the night, but y’all are always such fun! So sleep tight all, and be careful about those bed bugs – I hear they suck.

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

@M Dubz something else about pulling up your bootstraps myth and that poor ppl are just lazy b/c htey’re afraid to work hard and deal w/ the pain… is that I’ve noticed that’s SO MUCH related to EDs too : and a lot of other things in our culture.. pain = work… it’s like when ppl suggest changing times for schools in order to better match teenagers’ natural sleep cycles, and ppl go THEY SHOULD JUST SUCK IT UP or SCHOOL IS SUPPOSED TO BE HARD or etc : the idea is that if you’re suffering LESS then you’re not doing something good… even tho school is supposed to be (in theory right?) about learning, and we want ppl to learn as best they can … or like in sports, where sucking up pain is good, or playing through pain (even tho you’re actually hurting the team if you’re playing w/ an undisclosed injury that hampers you)… and w/ EDs… if you’re working your way thru hunger, and denying it, that’s good.. you’re fighting through… it ties also into fat ppl being lazy or not trying hard enuf to diet, or etc : that denying things we LIKE is good… it means we are accomplishing something.. even tho sometimes it’s just absolutely meaningless, or even worse, unhelpful..

Magpie
Magpie
10 years ago

Darksidecat: Maybe upperclass fat means ‘you’re not classy’, and lowerclass fat means ‘you don’t work hard’ (left over from when most jobs were physical).
I’ve seen “No Fat Chicks” bumper stickers on utes – I just read the sticker as “I’m a Dickhead”

Ami Angelwings
10 years ago

at amandajane5 i remember you asking, but I can’t remember nething you said about it :

I’m making a txt file to keep track now, so if you remember what you wanted, let me know

(this applies to nebody who wants a card btw :3 )

Pecunium
10 years ago

Ami: I forgot… I know how to knit. One more thing to add to my skill set. I can spin, but I can’t weave; not really. I am able to do repair sewing, but not construction.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
10 years ago

Funny you should mention “pulling up by your bootstraps Ami: just read this on Cracked.com.

While listening to Journey which is awesome.