Welcome to the Weekend Open Thread Dada Party. Talk about whatever you want. And don’t worry if some of the words you use aren’t actual words. The Dadaists didn’t care about that sort of thing. Blago bung, blago bung. Bosso Fataka!
Click here or here to hear Kurt Schwitters read some of his Dadaist poetry. For more on this poem, see here.
Enjoy! Or, as Hugo Ball might have put it, ba – umf.
@Ion:
Thought you might get a laugh out of this one. I have discovered a new awesome technique!
It’s a limit break! xD
And cuz I forgot ALL about neg as a concept of Puaness xD
http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx134/ami_angelwings/Magyc%20Cards/Neg.jpg
conteckts
This small tease is supposed to make a woman interested in you sexually, yes? Why exactly would you use it on your kid sister?
It’s supposed to make you stand apart from the sycophants, show confidence, and build rapport and familiarity. Although I think you could guess that yourself and were being intentionally obtuse.
And saying ‘i insult you, now have sex with me’ as a description of negging is about as informed and accurate as the typical MRA quotes about feminists. 😉
@Ion:
You say that “negging” is “a useful stepping stone for socially awkward guys…” Isn’t this exactly wrong? Wouldn’t socially awkward guys be more likely to say “you’re too fat for your ankles?” And how does insulting someone “show confidence, and build rapport and familiarity?” Wouldn’t.. you know.. polite conversation that doesn’t focus on how someone looks, or the ability to look your patner in the eye instead of in the boobs be more effective?
I would bet that the guy who insulted dreamhouse was trying to pull off a “neg.”
@David:
He only wishes he could pull off something like this.
But what if you’re faced with this?
http://thehostages.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/eye-boobs.jpg
You say that “negging” is “a useful stepping stone for socially awkward guys…” Isn’t this exactly wrong? Wouldn’t socially awkward guys be more likely to say “you’re too fat for your ankles?”
They would, at first. When you learn a new skill, are you perfect at it from the first try? Eventually they’d understand how it works, learn to apply it better, and finally get to the stage where it came naturally and they wouldn’t think of it anymore.
And how does insulting someone “show confidence, and build rapport and familiarity?”
Here’s where you completely ignore what I wrote just a little while ago, so I’m not going to repeat myself. Like I said, intentionally obtuse.
Wouldn’t.. you know.. polite conversation that doesn’t focus on how someone looks, or the ability to look your patner in the eye instead of in the boobs be more effective?
Polite conversation generally leads to polite conversation. Most guys interested in PUA techniques want a little more than that. And nowhere does it say a neg should be focused on looks. The looking in the eye part… I don’t even know where that came from.
Here’s another example of first class negging.
@Ion:
Alright, so you keep insisting that somehow insulting people will get them to like you. How would *you* personally feel if someone were to start criticizing your looks on a date? Would you be more or less interested in the girl? Would you be more or less likely (on those comments alone) to want to go on a second date?
Alright, so you keep insisting that somehow insulting people will get them to like you.
When you’re done punching that strawman, I’ll be over here.
@Ion:
I dunno, this straman seems fleshy and well-bodied to me. Are you saying that negs aren’t insults? Or are you saying that they aren’t supposed to get people to like you? Or would you like to clarify? My question still stands.
Kirby, my understanding of “negging” is that it’s designed to subtly undermine a woman’s confidence and self-esteem. If the woman is good looking, and accustomed to being flattered and hit on, I can see how a well-delivered “neg” might work.
How that it makes her more likely to be attracted to the PUA I guess depends on how charming he is despite the “negging”. People often lust after those who seem out of their league, and I guess “negging” is a way of implying lack of interest.
Ion’s right that polite conversation leads mainly to polite conversation, and if what you’re after is a post-bar one night stand I’m certain many PUA techniques could be effective (as long as you’re already handsome and confident enough to employ them properly). And I’m not sure that second dates are on the PUA agenda.
@Graham:
I’m almost postive it has more to do with the charm than the neg, but it still seems shady. But polite doesn’t necessarily mean “only say nice things” or “don’t talk about anything naughty,” its just not being rude (I see “negging” as rude, as described). If you’re talking to a woman who’s interested in a one-night-fling, you shouldn’t need to trick them into it.
If they aren’t interested, then PUA is either convincing unwilling participants into sex, or a very very shitty way of determining whether a woman is interested or not. Either way, its no wonder they are viewed as sleazebags.
I would say the things that PUAs actually advocate doing to attract women are fairly standard ways of flirting, and people have unconsciously done those things since forever.
What’s unpleasant to me is the mentality cultivated by PUA sites and forums, with their conscious weaponisation of flirting techniques and their contempt for unsuspecting women who succumb. Thousands of men all getting together to hone their psychological trickery skills while supporting each others’ misogyny is fucking creepy.
@Graham:
Alright.. so people who are already good friends, or at least friendly, can insult each other jokingly, and neither will be offended. But that hinges on the two already knowing each other, and knowing the insult was not serious or meant to be harmful. Perhaps you could say that is part of flirting, but it certainly isn’t when two people aren’t already friendly towards each other. And yet ‘negging’ seems to be an entry, not a continuation. This is what my poor non-PUA brain fails to comprehend. And if Ion would get off his high horse about my supposed strawmanning, maybe he’ll actually explain it rather than say “You don’t get it. And I’m not gonna tell you either, because you don’t get it.” 😛
Yeah, I think the problem may be that you probably look at the world as being full of individuals with their own desires and idiosyncracies, whereas PUAs look at it as an urban savannah in which they are lions and women are antelopes – and a neg is a claw swipe at the ankle designed to make the prey easier to pin down.
Alright, I think I have it now.. Just roll with me on this one.
PUA is when people who have no idea what human interaction looks like examine an actual interaction, and try to piece together how to recreate it. It comes up with rules and models and so forth that, if they work, only work by accident. And you get PUA masters who for some reason can successfully interact with people (at least short term), but are very bad at introspection.
How’d I do? ^__^
@Graham:
Well, if my problem is that I look at other people as human beings… I’ll take that impairment. *shrug* It’s worked for me so far. Thanks for the help, though. Some of the stuff I read about here…. it just boggles the mind.
“PUA is when people who have no idea what human interaction looks like examine an actual interaction, and try to piece together how to recreate it.”
Yes, exactly. But I actually think their examination and conclusions have some validity, and that their successes are not solely accidental. Though it’s hard to tell, because if you go out every night and hit on a dozen different people I guess eventually you might end up in bed with one of them regardless.
I dunno, this straman seems fleshy and well-bodied to me. Are you saying that negs aren’t insults?
Yes. If they come across as insults, you’re doing it wrong. In fact I spelled that out clearly earlier. You just ignored it, or pretended to.
Or are you saying that they aren’t supposed to get people to like you?
Not by themselves. They’re a way to communicate that you have confidence, value and aren’t just another supplicant who’ll lavish her with compliments and be ready to agree with anything she says. In other words, they work as part of a cool, confident attitude.
I’m glad that you, kirbywarp, are such a natural ladies’ man that you can effortlessly pick up women while smirking at the poor saps who lack the confidence or social skills to do so. Unfortunately, those without your natural gifts have to find a way, and this stuff works.
Graham: Pretty much agreed. Most PUA techniques are actually standard ways of flirting, just analyzed in more detail than usual. Unfortunately some PUAs themselves can be rather creepy and misogynist. It’s a matter of taking what’s good and useful and disregarding the rest.
@Ami @CaptainBathrobe
LOL at “one human’s unpierceable armor is another demon’s bathrobe”.
But I have to say some of the advice handed out by PUA “masters” is sound.
“Try not to come across as clingy and subservient” is a good thing to bear in mind if you want to be attractive to people. “Pay some attention to your clothes and posture”, likewise. I don’t think everything that PUAs advocate is inherently evil – it’s just the psychopathic way that most of them talk about it that sticks in my craw.
I also want to say, by way of introduction, that entitled bitches been ridin’ me all weekend, and I’m getting chafed!
On the subject of tattoos, I have two; a dragon across the back of my shoulders and a hydralisk above my right breast.